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Cyclocross and Gravelbiking (Recreational) This has to be the most physically intense sport ever invented. It's high speed bicycle racing on a short off road course or riding the off pavement rides on gravel like : "Unbound Gravel". We also have a dedicated Racing forum for the Cyclocross Hard Core Racers.

Riding on actual gravel

Old 12-04-20, 01:22 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by Helldorado
The trails I ride on are mostly small ball-bearings. Usually stainless steel. Let me tell you, it's not easy to ride on that stuff, but I'm pretty skilled and have not fallen once. And I ride fast, usually 20 m/h or faster when descending. My skills are good.
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Old 12-04-20, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Helldorado
The trails I ride on are mostly small ball-bearings. Usually stainless steel. Let me tell you, it's not easy to ride on that stuff, but I'm pretty skilled and have not fallen once. And I ride fast, usually 20 m/h or faster when descending. My skills are good.
Up around Flagstaff, AZ they used to sand the road with cinders, pretty much like BBs, but better at shredding your skin
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Old 12-04-20, 02:07 PM
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The problem was that your tires had nothing to push against (hardpack under the gravel) and were sinking into the gravel. Same idea as fatbikes on sand or snow - you gotta float over it. Knobs wouldn't help much. On my last big gravel outing I hit an ungraded dirt road in VT on 40mm tires (the grader was JUST starting up) and had the same kind of problems as you. Easily one of the most miserable segments on that ride.


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Old 12-05-20, 12:39 PM
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Bottom line:
"Gravelbike" is a total misnomer. Hardly anyone who goes "gravel riding" is riding on actual gravel. The best name to give it would be "dirt riding" but he term dirt bike is already taken.
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Old 12-05-20, 04:10 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by Helldorado
Bottom line:
"Gravelbike" is a total misnomer. Hardly anyone who goes "gravel riding" is riding on actual gravel. The best name to give it would be "dirt riding" but he term dirt bike is already taken.
These are gravel roads and there are over 70,000mi of them in my state alone.



This is dumb to argue over.

Gravel roads are a thing. Dirt roads are a thing. Academically, they are different.
A gravel road is an improved road(meaning it is engineered).

For cycling, 'gravel' is widely accepted to mean most any road/path that isnt paved.
This is just another example of our need to categorize and segment.
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Old 12-06-20, 07:32 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr
These are gravel roads and there are over 70,000mi of them in my state alone.



This is dumb to argue over.

Gravel roads are a thing. Dirt roads are a thing. Academically, they are different.
A gravel road is an improved road(meaning it is engineered).

For cycling, 'gravel' is widely accepted to mean most any road/path that isnt paved.
This is just another example of our need to categorize and segment.
But arguing is fun!

Those photos of yours show dirt roads with a sparse layer of gravel that's mostly been pushed aside in the sections where two-wheel and four-wheel tires meet the ground.
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Old 12-06-20, 07:48 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by Helldorado
But arguing is fun!

Those photos of yours show dirt roads with a sparse layer of gravel that's mostly been pushed aside in the sections where two-wheel and four-wheel tires meet the ground.
They show gravel roads. The road is made of gravel with varying amounts of sand, clay, and silt which act as stabilizers/binders.
Yes, thru the course of maintenance, dirt is transferred from bordering fields and the roadside ditches into the road as well..

The road pics I provided are firm base gravel with loose rock on top. These were taken late July during a drought and 7 weeks after the last road grading, which results in a sparse top layer.

Its unfortunate you don't recognize what a gravel road is, but I've explained it and Google will clarify much better. You can choose to stay confused or read up on the subject.
Either way, I'm pretty sure I'm out on this matter as the only thing i find more banal than arguments about gravel on these forums is arguments about what constitutes 'real climbing' for tough rides.
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Old 12-06-20, 07:49 PM
  #33  
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Whether you can ride a gravel bike easily on all gravel or just some gravel, it's pretty clear that the name fo the category has been pretty successful. On my rides, I see a lot of gravel bikes, possibly because the multiuse trail near me is paved for several miles, but unpaved (really mild very non technical) road for about 7 miles at the end. I do see them as a great choice for someone who certainly rides a lot on pavement, but likes to be spontaneous and to check out trails along the way. To me, they're sort of like a jazz group where there may be several bars of written ensemble sections along with extended solos. There probably are not enough jazz fans buying bikes to call them Improv or Solo bikes though.
Not everyone who buys a racing bike actually races it. A lot of mountain bikes never get ridden off pavement, much less up or down mountains. Hardly any sport utility vehicles ever get used as anything more than a family station wagon. In fact, my own theory is that they're especially popular with people who need a station wagon, but can't bring themselves to admit it. I suppose the fact that many gravel bikes can't be ridden on a lot of gravel surfaces isn't that big a deal; it's just an appealing name for people who like drop bar bicycles who maybe don't want to dress up like bike racers.

Last edited by chancelucky; 12-07-20 at 11:35 AM.
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Old 12-06-20, 10:08 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr
They show gravel roads. The road is made of gravel with varying amounts of sand, clay, and silt which act as stabilizers/binders.
Yes, thru the course of maintenance, dirt is transferred from bordering fields and the roadside ditches into the road as well..

The road pics I provided are firm base gravel with loose rock on top. These were taken late July during a drought and 7 weeks after the last road grading, which results in a sparse top layer.

Its unfortunate you don't recognize what a gravel road is, but I've explained it and Google will clarify much better. You can choose to stay confused or read up on the subject.
Either way, I'm pretty sure I'm out on this matter as the only thing i find more banal than arguments about gravel on these forums is arguments about what constitutes 'real climbing' for tough rides.
Nay, those pics show unpaved roads that are a variable mix of loose gravel and packed dirt. You can try to spin it any way you like, but seeing is believing. Nice photos, btw.
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Old 12-07-20, 08:17 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by unterhausen
This thread is really bringing out the experts on crushed stone. Isn't "pea gravel" actually tumbled? Seems like a weird choice for a road unless they got it on sale.
Its not a weird choice for paths. People think it looks nice and I bet this was a walking path not really for bikes. I know on campus they use this gravel in areas where only foot traffic is expected.

most people only try to drive or ride over that stuff once.
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Old 12-11-20, 04:08 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr
'real climbing'
Is there even a single real climb in Iowa? (/kidding)

For the sake of argument, most secondary roads in Iowa are definitely well-compacted gravel-aggregate. Of course, Iowa has dirt roads too, but they are fewer and farther between. The pic below is a designated "B"-road, minimum service road southeast of Cedar Rapids; the surface was definitely more dirt than gravel.

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Old 12-12-20, 09:12 AM
  #37  
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One of my favourite rides this past summer had about 8km touched up with about 2-4inches of fresh gravel the type you described and it became near impossible to ride enjoyably and safely. The rounded gravel is like ball bearings and its easy for your bike to get out of control on the downhills. The only good thing is that traffic will typically push the gravel off the road and into the ditch. Hoping by spring road conditions will have improved or that they touch up the road crushed gravel.
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Old 12-17-20, 12:52 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr
yes.


What you described is basically rideable on just a fat bike. Gravel comes in many sizes, so yeah, a gravel bike can ride on gravel.


This is a hilarious contradiction of a non-answer to the question.

"The gravel road you described is basically only rideable on a fat bike, so yeah a gravel bike can ride on gravel, just not on ALL gravel, but yes to your question even though you gave a specific example to which the answer is actually 'no', so yeah, a gravel bike can ride on gravel" - lolwut. This is a specific query regarding a specific kind of gravel and you're like... out to defend gravel bikes or something by not really answering the question???


This is a fun thread to read though, cause where is the sweet spot for gravel tires that inevitably see some pavement too??? I have underbiked on 23c tires and currently roll on 2.3" balloons, and even though the balloons are overkill for hardpack, they won't float over everything sand&gravel. I like reading how the sweet spot is different for different people, what compromises work for some but not others, etc

Cheers!
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Old 12-17-20, 01:08 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Hugh Morris
This is a hilarious contradiction of a non-answer to the question.
I dont view my response as contradictory. I do find the argument over what is 'real' gravel to be a waste of time since 'actual gravel' isnt just one type/style/size, so a gravel bike may not work well for all gravel while still being capable of use on actual gravel.

Its just a pointless argument really.
Evaluate the surface conditions where you ride and select the bike that will work the best(or perform the least worst). Simple as that.
But instead, we have a question of 'can a gravel bike ride on actual gravel' and then arguing about gravel vs dirt roads.
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Old 12-18-20, 10:59 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr
Evaluate the surface conditions where you ride and select the bike that will work the best(or perform the least worst). Simple as that.
But instead, we have a question of 'can a gravel bike ride on actual gravel' and then arguing about gravel vs dirt roads.
Firstly, it's a forum. People come here to discuss what equipment will work best or perform the least worst. We're all here reading what works for others vs what doesn't, and if we can apply that information to ourselves, or help someone else who could use a little more information themselves... Or we're bored and enjoy bickering online

Originally Posted by mstateglfr
I dont view my response as contradictory. I do find the argument over what is 'real' gravel to be a waste of time since 'actual gravel' isnt just one type/style/size, so a gravel bike may not work well for all gravel while still being capable of use on actual gravel.
It's not an argument here, the definition of "actual gravel" as it relates to this conversation is clearly spelled out in the original post, and you are at odds with that definition. The original post asks a specific question and you just chose to ignore that question and say "what you defined as actual gravel is different than my definition, so if you use my definition, which changes the question entirely, the answer is yes!" I am tickled by that, and am curious your thought process / motivation for dodging the question as it was posed. Are you just out to defend the classification of "gravel bikes" in general?

(truth be told, i want a zippy sub 20lb gravel bike with some 38-42ish supple tires, but alas, n = 1 over here)
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Old 12-18-20, 11:29 AM
  #41  
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As the original poster and someone who's participated in a number of fora, I find that it's the nature of these things to slide around a lot, more or less like a 35 mm tire trying to ride on two inches of gravel. If it were just direct question and answer, most threads wouldn't last very long. A lot of the time, the sliding about makes the thread more fun. At some point though, the discussion loses balance, slows down, and the thread crashes. To me, the only rule is that things should stay interesting and in the spirit of being helpful or at least fun.
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Old 12-21-20, 06:00 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by chancelucky
only rule is that things should stay interesting and in the spirit of being helpful or at least fun.
Originally Posted by Hugh Morris
where is the sweet spot for gravel tires that inevitably see some pavement too?
On the touring bike, I've settled on 47c (which is about the maximum I can comfortably fit in the frame). Those tires can handle most "roads", float on loose gravel and dirt, and are generally quite comfortable on rough surfaces. The bike (and tires) are noticeably heavy and slow -- but that is touring (even on a local "day-trip").

On the "road bike" (with cyclocross race geometry), I prefer 32c. Some of the comfort of wider tires, but still plenty quick for most fast group rides (those that aren't out for blood, at the least). I don't mind hitting the local gravel routes on the 32's, but I'd imagine they have some real limitations in some places with rowdier trails, and especially, mud.
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Old 12-22-20, 12:32 PM
  #43  
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deep gravel sucks. so does sand. so does riding through a marsh.

when it comes to pea gravel.. it just always sucks in my opinion.
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Old 12-27-20, 11:18 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by Helldorado
But arguing is fun!

Those photos of yours show dirt roads with a sparse layer of gravel that's mostly been pushed aside in the sections where two-wheel and four-wheel tires meet the ground.
Sorry, no road with any level of traffic will ever keep a deep layer of loose gravel. The loose stuff mostly gets worked down into the roadbed under the weight of cars so maintaining a layer of loose gravel would be very maintenance intensive (if it got pushed aside, the drainige ditches would fill up with gravel, which they don't). Not to mention that a deep layer of loose gravel is undesirable as it gives poor traction and takes extra energy for cars as well. The point of a gravel road is that the gravel gets worked into the roadbed. This gives a fairly hard surface that also drains well and is fairly durable as long as idiots don't spin their tires and break up the top layer.
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Old 12-28-20, 04:34 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr
These are gravel roads and there are over 70,000mi of them in my state alone.


I have gravel road envy! Certainly nicer than our dirt that is either mud or concrete with ruts, with the exception of random unpredictable slip slide corners.
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Old 12-29-20, 11:41 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by Caliper
Sorry, no road with any level of traffic will ever keep a deep layer of loose gravel. The loose stuff mostly gets worked down into the roadbed under the weight of cars so maintaining a layer of loose gravel would be very maintenance intensive (if it got pushed aside, the drainige ditches would fill up with gravel, which they don't). Not to mention that a deep layer of loose gravel is undesirable as it gives poor traction and takes extra energy for cars as well. The point of a gravel road is that the gravel gets worked into the roadbed. This gives a fairly hard surface that also drains well and is fairly durable as long as idiots don't spin their tires and break up the top layer.
Precisely my point: "gravel" cycling is really not riding on gravel - it's riding on packed dirt with embedded gravel. Different altogether.
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Old 12-29-20, 01:17 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by Helldorado
Precisely my point: "gravel" cycling is really not riding on gravel - it's riding on packed dirt with embedded gravel. Different altogether.
"Gravel roads" as a term has been used for decades to denote an engineered road that contains usually around 50% gravel. This is a preferred riding surface for many gravel bicycle riders.

Riding over piles of gravel is a different thing alltogether.

Here in the southwest US, we have plenty of the gravel terrain that you seem to imagine riding gravel requires, you'll probably piss off the homeowners, though.



One would be hard pressed to locate long rides through the kind of gravel that you think gravel is. Do a google search for gravel road specifications or gravel road manual and you'll get plenty of information on what gravel roads are comprised of. They're never 100% gravel.

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Old 12-29-20, 01:24 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by LesterOfPuppets
"Gravel roads" as a term has been used for decades to denote an engineered road that contains usually around 50% gravel. This is a preferred riding surface for many gravel bicycle riders.

Riding over piles of gravel is a different thing alltogether.

Here in the southwest US, we have plenty of the gravel terrain that you seem to imagine riding gravel requires, you'll probably piss off the homeowners, though.



One would be hard pressed to locate long rides through the kind of gravel that you think gravel is. Do a google search for gravel road specifications or gravel road manual and you'll get plenty of information on what gravel roads are comprised of. They're never 100% gravel.
I never claimed gravel cycling is predomionanty done on gravel-topped roads like the one in your nice neighbor's yard. That's what others on this forum have been claiming. But i would not mind doing a few laps and jumps over those cacti. Although that neighbor dude looks kinda mean, like he might be packing under that shirt. Ao on second thought, I'll pass.
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Old 12-29-20, 02:14 PM
  #49  
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Unpaved roads vary across the US. In a vast amount of rural America "gravel roads" are well understood to mean the local mix of rock and dirt that can be compacted into a roadbed. Where I lived in VA that meant a fairly hard clay with comparatively little stone compared to say the roads in a more mountainous area. I've lived on gravel roads much of my life and live on one now.

The only thing that gravel roads share in common is that they are inconsistent. Which is what makes them so much fun to ride.
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Old 12-30-20, 06:35 AM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by Helldorado
Precisely my point: "gravel" cycling is really not riding on gravel - it's riding on packed dirt with embedded gravel. Different altogether.
Because packed gravel with dirt is called a gravel road. I suppose nobody is about riding on deep, loose packed gravel if that is what you thought the term should mean. I think the only places you'll really find that is a playground or a runaway truck ramp? Surfaces covered in this way are usually fairly small in area and don't take you anywhere, so what's the point in riding on them anyways? But if you've ever taken a shovel to a gravel road or driveway, you'll see that it's much more gravel than dirt due to all that gravel having been worked into the ground for years. This is what a gravel road is, so I don't see the issue. Gravel bikes are great for gravel roads so this side of things has always made plenty of sense to me.
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