Jamg2412

Hello

I got a second hand Bianchi with Campagnolo Veloce groupset mixed with Xenon FD and I am having problems to adjust the shifting of the FD. I am following the instructions from a YouTube video and park tool which help me to make it work in the bike stand but it does not work when I am riding after shifting one time either way, small to big and big to small. I am setting everything to 3 clicks but not luck to make it work in the road. If you have any advice or you can see something wrong in the pictures I will appreciate your help.

Groupset Veloce 10 speed
RD Veloce
Campagnolo 10 speed chain
FD Xenon 10 speed
Campagnolo Veloce chainset

Thanks,
Alberto

Road Fan

Ok, I have some experience with this stuff.

First, the series or level does not matter very much in Campy of this era. You have a Xenon (which is just fine, will probaby never break), which is a CT. CT means "compact," and for Campy that means chainrings were intended to be 50/34, possiblly 50/36 or 52/36. It is not intended for the 53/39 range or for triples, though that doesn't mean it won't work.

Second you have a QS or "quick shift" front mech. It has a little higher mechanical advantage which, paired with the correct left hand Ergopower and proper set-up, will give very nice one-click shifting. The derailleur has a shorter arm from the cable clamp bolt to the pivot, than the non-QS model. The QS derailleur was designed to be paired with a right-hand Ergopower that is also marked "QS." If the lever you have was cleaned up at some point by a well-meaning neat freak so the QS letters are gone, then you have the QS set and the potential for one of Campy's best front shifting systems. If you use the QS derailleur with a non-QS lever, it's ok (no asplosions will occur), but you just need to set it up within the constraints. Having a YouTube or a Park book is all well and good, but the best guide is the Campagnolo instructions, which you can find on the Campy website if you didn't keep them.

Your derailleur looks like it is located a little too high relative to the top of the chainring. The vertical gap is supposed to be something like 2 to 4 millimeters from the tip of the closest chainring tooth to the bottom of the outer plate of the cage, and yours looks more like 5 mm. In my installations being a whole tooth-lengths high is too much. The Campy instructions for your derailleur will tell you for sure. It's not the same distance for all Campy front derailleurs, for some reason.

The outer plate of the derailleur cage needs to be parallel to (i.e. parallel to the plane of) the large chainring. If it's turned in, the cage may drag and shifting will not be precise. This detail is important. Again, go with what Campy says. As you adjust the derailleur stop screws to set the limits and the shifting, the angle of the plate should not change.

Last time I looked for stuff like this on www.campagnolo.com, it was fairly intuitive to learn to navigate. But today may not be the same.

One of the best experts on these parts and really on all Campagnolo is Peter Chisolm, known on-line as "oldpotatoe" He's former owner of Vecchio's Bicicletteria in Boulder, CO and is often on Paceline and Velocipede Salon, and I'm not sure if he's a member here, too.

I'd suggest looking for a left-hand Ergopower lever marked "QS" and making the replacement on your bike. It's just that Campy and Shimano can both be tricky, and the same tricks don't always work on both systems. You shouldn't need new cables (inner or outer) or even new bar tape. You could also head back to Ebay and hunt down a non-QS CT front derailleur and keep your existing levers. You may have some double clicks in some shifts, but it will still work very well.

Talk to me if you run into trouble.

cranky old road 

What he said.

Jamg2412

Thanks for the reply Road Fan. I have learned a lot from all the things that you described about Campagnolo groupsets.

Now, about setting the FD I went into the website and found some information about a QS FD with and Ergopower Veloce non QS version which I think I have. I removed the FD and cleaned it before doing a proper installation. I ordered a new inner cable just to be covered. I will try to fit everything later today and see if it works properly.

The recommended gap between chainring and FD is between 1-2mm, half of what I have now (4mm) for a non QS FD but it shouldn't be to different to a QS.

I include some screenshots of the manual.

Jamg2412

I did everything following Campagnolo instructions at least 5 times, always moving a little bit FD and most of the time the front shifting is perfect in the bike stand but not while ridding the bike. I went between 1 to 2 mm of gap with the chainring and also tried different alineation. No luck, I am not an expert but I followed all the instructions and the only thing is that they are different series of components which can be causing the problem.



New gap



The FD is older maybe 2005 and the shifters 2009 or 2010. So, I am a little frustrated and decided to get a new front derraullier to match the shifters. A Veloce FD with the Veloce shifter should work better.


This FD with the actual left shifter

big john

What is the actual problem? It won't shift at all? I have Chorus 10 speed and I set the derailleur as close as I can get it to the big ring, also set the stop screws as tight as I can.

Road Fan

Are there more pages to the instructions you have?

What size are your chain rings? That one is not for compact rings.

Also, what is going wrong on the road? Noise? dragging? Not shifting? chain throwing?

Jamg2412

The problem is that in the bike stand shift ok both ways but when I am riding the shifting from small to big goes fine two times and after that not anymore. The shifting from big to small is poor while ridding. I can set the FD more close to the chainring, there is at least 1mm to get very close.

Jamg2412

Chainring 50-34

When I am on the road the shifting goes fine for a couple of turns after that not anymore. I was checking today and the FD seems to move the high limit a little bit to the inside when I am riding. Cable tension is not changing from where I can observe. Also when I am setting the high limit, I can get the shift from small to big in 4 clicks and 3 clicks but I don't really understand that part as the manual says that is will need an extra. Chain throwing is not a problem as the lower limit works fine. The manual does not say anything specific about the Xenon FD it is more about the shifter.



50-34 VELOCE with veloce RD small cage 13-26

Last setup FD



Shifters




Specs of the possible new derailleur

big john

I don't understand why it would work twice and then not work. Like something is moving? I've had an issue where the derailleur clamp isn't tight and the whole thing rotates a bit on the seat tube.
Maybe part of the problem is as others have said, the shifter doesn't have enough cable pull? Have you adjusted the stop screws?

I could be wrong but in one of your pictures it looks like the derailleur might be bent.

Jamg2412

I have try almost everything according to the instructions in different sites. I will give it another chance lowering the FD and getting a new gear cable as the one that I have is not good anymore. Too many times adjusting into the derailleur. Let you know the results soon. Maybe also recording a video to show the actual issue. Thanks for the help.

Kimmo 

Or the seat tube is unusually steep, or the cage is meant for a 53 and that's a 50, or some combination thereof?

Jack Tone 

The only reason I can think of that it works for a few times, then not, is perhaps the outer cable is not seated correctly into the lever. Maybe it was not seated, then taped to the handlebar.

RGMN

I'm thinking this is either a cable issue or a shifter issue. The whole "works twice" seems to point to something shifting out of position, either a cable not seated as Jack Tone said, or something in the shifter is jamming or hanging up after a couple of shifts. It doesn't look like the Veloce is rebuildable, but the shifter section looks replaceable.

One other thought - looking at one of the photos it looks like the spring link is off-center on its pivot. Is there any play in that pivot point? I'm wondering if that is getting shifted and jamming. When was the last time the pivot points on the FD lubricated?

Jamg2412

I cleaned everything before trying to adjust the FD into the bike. Then I lubricated all the parts.

Jamg2412

The solution for my problem was to get a new front derailleur. Veloce model as the one in the image. Comparing both FD, I can see that the inner space is less in the Veloce model compared to the Xenon. I guess that this was causing the problem to change from the small to the big chainring. Installing the new one was simple, first low limit, cable and then high limit. Maybe the Xenon is bended and needs to be repaired.

Measuring at the front of the derailleur
Veloce 10 speed: 1.6 mm
Xenon CT QS 10 speed: 1.8 mm

Not very accurate as I did it with a ruler not with a Vernier.