billyymc

Right. Because that never happens here, ever.

Her post was funny. Your post about beating the dogs to death, not so much.

I get that they scared the crap out of you, and almost injured you. It's clear they are menace animals. I'd follow up with the police more in the interest of the dogs not hurting someone else who is less able to take defensive action.

And if you continue to feel the dogs are a threat to you, take more than your frame pump for defense. Seriously. I've been in a situation where I was routinely around a dog that was incredibly strong and violent - to the point it had broken through the window of a car it was in to attack another dog. The owner of this dog would visit a person who lived next door to me (years ago when I lived in a city), so I would carry a knife with me if it was around. No amount of beating would have gotten that
monster off me or my wife.

Edit to add - the part of your original post that wasn't funny was the way you sort of went over the top talking about beating the dogs to death. I do not fault you for stating you will defend yourself, and possibly kill the dogs. It would suck if that were necessary, but it would be understandable if they attacked you. I'd want the dog chase on video if I were you though - to avoid possible legal problems.

canklecat

The problem with dog attacks is they won't occur when you're ready, mentally or physically. It doesn't work that way. Dogs sense vulnerability. That's when it'll happen. When you're fatigued, annoyed by routine stresses, nursing sore muscles and a scrape from a recent fall, menstruating, or exuding fear and adrenaline rush from a near miss with a car a little while ago.

And if your body has become conditioned to responding with anxiety and fear from dogs, it'll happen again and the dogs will pick up on it and reinforce that involuntary reaction.

While I'm trying to refrain from the ad hominem of criticizing the messenger, some of the dumbest advice I've ever read came in this troll thread that appears to be mocking this serious thread. Lots of woulda-coulda-shoulda advice from armchair experts who've either never actually experienced a serious dog attack against themselves, their own pets or between others -- or never learned a damned thing from those experiences.

Stick your fingers in the dog's nose to distract it? Are you kidding me? Yeah, that'll work. The dog will choke on your fingers, hopefully giving you time to staunch the blood flow while you're screaming in agony from the injury to some of the most pain-sensitive parts of the body. Meanwhile you've lost the very things you need to pull the trigger on a gun, handle a knife, club, or any makeshift defensive weapon.

Within 30-60 seconds after losing your fingers while trying to plug up the dog's nose -- because dogs can't figure out how to breathe through their mouths, right? -- you'll be in shock. The initial adrenaline rush will leave your body depleted, weakened and trembling uncontrollably. Fine motor control will be gone. Even if you had a gun you'll be lucky to hang onto it, let alone hit a moving target while you're blinded with tunnel vision. Blood is slippery and with mangled fingers you won't be able to hold a weapon.

Even if you haven't had a threatening encounter with an animal you probably have with another human being. And unless you've been trained to fight and practiced it regularly, all that stuff you learned from comic books, TV and movies won't work.

Look at the dog attack compilation video in that troll thread. Skip to the 0:47 mark. Put it on slo-mo. It's a damned training video, not a real attack. The gun is a training gun with red safety markers. The dog is wearing a muzzle. The point of the video is to demonstrate how badly things can go wrong, even if you have a gun.

So, aside from the OP's possible overreaction out of anger, he has a valid concern. It doesn't make him a dog hater. I like dogs. I also value human beings more. It doesn't mean I'll take for granted bad dogs and bad people. Dog owners have a duty to train and restrain their pets. We human beings have a right to defend ourselves from attack. And you cannot afford to underestimate the danger or overestimate your capability to respond.

Maelochs

and everything else he said.

Lots of people who have never had a problem say "it's no problem." Lots of people who apparently have never been shocked and scared when caught off guard ... I Always love the guys who say, "I just outsprint them." Yeah, because you always ride at half speed and a quarter of your max distance so you are always fresh. You are never bonked, beat, riding into a 20-mph headwind, uphill .... nah, you are too macho.

I really like animals and don't much like people .... but i still say, use as much force as you need and a little more just in case. keep safe. I'd rather feel like crap later because I hurt an animal than feel like crap because I was half-blind and crippled.

I notice the one person no one listened to is (I think her name is ) Hardrock23, or whoever ... the poor lady who was Permanently Injured by a dog. yeah .... she should have said "Go Home" in a stern voice while she was being Permanently Injured. That Always works.

Ask any cop who trains police dogs.

TimothyH

There is no need for all the drama.

None of what the OP experienced would have happened had he carried high quality OC pepper spray and used it at the first encounter. Anyone concerned about an animal attack should do the same. It's very easy. Get spray and use it, that's all. It is humane and works extremely well. Problem solved.

All the talk about "I'll kill your **** dog" is pointless anger and drama.


-Tim-

scott967

Agree, but the "repeat offender" problem is very real.

scott s.
.

canklecat

Exactly. And dogs are damned smart. They'll sense the most vulnerable person or persons in a group.

Recently I joined some acquaintances for a ride through a rural route that's popular with several of us on this side of town. They're a bit older than I (I'm 59) and on a tandem.

On the return trip they went through a semi-rural residential area that I usually ride around. No particular reason why I didn't take that route before, it's just a bit shorter and quicker taking my familiar route.

As we approached one block they warned me about a couple of dogs that often roam freely. Sure enough, a huge Saint Bernard ran toward us barking and snarling. Another smaller dog was there too but I didn't pay enough attention to it. A tactical error. As with humans, when attacking in pairs it's often the smaller, quieter one circling behind you that's dangerous. The big loud threatening one is the distraction.

My first thought was "Okay, then why are we going this way?" But I didn't say anything.

I did what I usually do: Say nothing, don't yell at the dog, dismount the bike and put it between me and the dog, looking toward the dog without direct eye contact. The dogs ignored me and went straight for their familiar target -- the older couple on the tandem. The dogs have been conditioned.

As usual, the "owners" were ineffectual dog feeders, babbling some nonsense about how their dogs were harmless, blah-blah-blah. It never occurs to these idiots that excessive exuberance and knocking someone down, no matter how friendly the intent, is also an assault that can result in serious injury.

As Timothy H. has noted, in this case the dogs need to be de-conditioned and re-conditioned. A good squirt of OC gel in the muzzle will be doing everyone a favor.

Boondocksaints

CP- Sometimes a person may not be looking and all of a sudden they see a large dog running at them, they don't have time to process that it's being friendly. It can be quite scary.

And this is coming from someone who has owned a German Shepard/Rotweiller mix, Poodle, Pitbull mix, Cocker Spaniel and Labrador Retriever.

I love dogs, yet if I looked up and some unknown dog was running at me, I'd get spooked too.

You can't expect everyone to have the same reaction and experience as you. Some people are just scared of dogs period- even if they're being friendly and just trying to sniff them.

It's rude and inconsiderate to not keep a reign on any dog over strangers (not trying to attack you or anything and I realize you just slipped and the leash came loose.)

BlazingPedals

Except that I've personally watched a dog hurl itself right through a cloud of pepper spray as if it weren't there, to attack the person it was fixated on. Pepper spray only works to discourage a dog that hasn't made up its mind yet. Once the dog is in attack mode, pepper spray DOES. NOT. WORK.

700

1. Working Cable TV, I was doing an install at a trailer in the county. 40 lb. bull terrier mama dog attacks me a few minutes after I had asked the owner to restrain it. I didn't have my climbers on or I would have danced on her head. I did have my toolbelt and a 14inch crescent wrench was handy. The first hit to the head(would've made a man unconscious) made her draw back about 2 feet. Then she charged my leg again. The second hit made her cry back under the trailer. A tire pump would have been useless. --------------------- 2. Iditerod mushers pick the meanest dogs they can to overcome the race conditions and to win. I read that sometimes the dogs get loose and go hunting and will come back smelling of skunk with blood in their mouths and a skunk eating grin on their face. Don't think pepper spray makes you invincible. ---------------- Most of the things said in this thread might work sometime. Distance is your best defense. Once a dog has harassed you, you should report it to the law. Mean dogs usually have mean owners. So the best advice depends on the exact situation.

jefnvk

Yep, tis how it happened to me. I was walking through a park, a guy and his lady friend lying on a blanket with the dog about 30 yards away, and that dog went from lounging around to full speed charging me in no time at all. No clue what it was, probably about 80# and jet black, no clue if it was happy or aggressive. Luckily it listened to its owner and stopped on his command, while I had enough time to get my hand on my pocket knife clipped in my pocket, no way would I have had it out and opened by the time the dog gotten to me.

I chalked it up as a no harm, no foul because there was no attack (and I was in Prague, so I really had no desire to file a police report) and went about my way. Mostly I'm just worried about a dog crashing me, not truly attacking on a bike, but that incident has never been forgotten.

TimothyH

What you describe is not consistent with OC "Pepper Spray" but CN or CS type spray. The term "Pepper Spray" is used interchangeably.

The sprays you see on youtube and the news where attackers and dogs keep coming are CN or CS sprays. These are irritants and are not effective on those who can't feel pain like psychotics, drunks and big, stupid, angry dogs.

OC is an inflammatory agent which causes instant blindness and gasping for air along with pain and burning. Blindness and gasping for air occur apart from whether the attacker or animal is able to feel pain. OC spray will slam an attacker or dog's eyes shut and make them start choking. It will stop a dog almost instantly.

There should not be a "cloud" of spray. What you describe is a fogger, not a stream. A fogger is too dispersed. A dog hit in the face with a stream of OC spray will stop.

What you describe sounds like the wrong type of spray and the wrong applicator.


-Tim-

Hardrock23

Thank you...I noticed too, but I figured as much.

I agree with all you and Canklecat have said. Its true, too, but so many don't consider such things. They probably won't unless it actually happens to them (and I really hope it never does). Its a terrifying experience and you really don't know what you'll end up doing once you are in that situation. You can try to prepare, try what you've suggested to others, but truth is once that dog sets in on you most of that stuff won't work. You'll be frantic trying to do any and everything to just get yourself out of that situation...there is no time to think.

And what Canklecat said about dogs picking out the vulnerable/fearful ones is true too. They can sense it and it can set them off. Iv gone through that too. My ex took me to meet his cousin and she had a dog that I didn't know about. I walked in, saw the dog, and became frightened and sure enough she came at me...not them, even while they grabbed her to put her in a room.


I understand people think their dogs are friendly and would never hurt anyone. But they all have the ability, and it can happen. It does happen. Something like an unknown medical issue can cause the friendliest of dogs to snap without warning.

bruce19

+1

bruce19

I live in a town that is pretty rural. Lots of farms and open space. And, plenty of dogs. But, I can't remember a dog that's come off it's property to chase me. I've been riding here for the past 10 years. But, the danger is real and scary. When I ride alone or with my gf I carry my Glock. For the dogs but for other reasons as well. In groups I never carry. I count on the mass to deter the bad acts of animals and humans.

wthensler 

I have a second home in the Blue Ridge Mtns., and my first encounter with a neighbor's dog cost me a broken pelvis and a two night stay in UVA, to say nothing of the damage to the bike. So silent was the attack I never saw or heard the dog until it was on me; no time to unclip and I went down. Hard.

I filed a police report, who turned me over to animal control, and ultimately nothing was done, as Madison County has a no leash law. Nice....

So now I'm extra careful and carry mace, which I will use lavishly should this occur again. A "blued" .357 is not out of the question, either.

Maelochs

I wonder what the "Tell him 'Go home!' in a stern voice" folks will do to minimize this attack.

Sorry to hear about your injuries.

I have heard people say that the serious attacking dogs often don't bark--they are hunting, not defending territory, so they use surprise.

one4smoke

As a cyclist AND dog owner, I've learned a lot reading through this thread.

Thanks fellas!

Hardrock23

Right ^ the dog that got me didn't bark either...only thing I heard was the chain snap. Sorry Wthensler! I can't believe they didn't do anything, regardless of whether there was a leash law. Ridiculous!

huffnpuff

You just never know how a dog is going to react when it sees a bicycle. I ride rural NC & GA and there are always going to be free range dogs both friendly and aggressive. Both kinds are a real danger to bike riders. I carry pepper spray and only used it once this year, I'm not sure I hit the target. It's not easy to pepper spray a dog while moving 15 mph and keeping the bike on the road. I've had four dog encounters this year, the one I missed with the pepper spray and the following three:

Dog One - a big friendly fellow. He bounded down to the rider in front of me and stopped. We were clipping along and I could not react fast enough to get out of his way and I must have run over a foot as I felt two bumps followed by two yelps. I felt bad about hitting the dog, however, glad I didn't go down!

Dog Two - this one caught me by surprise. I've passed this white lab many times and he likes to run along side the bike while staying on his property (owner has a invisible fence). Well, this time the system was not working and there he was along side of me and the next thing I know he has latched on to the drop bar (just like the op). I was able to keep the bike under control and nothing happened. However, after the encounter I pulled the spray out and turned the bike around, I was now on a hunting trip. The owner was watching from the front porch as I tried to get in position to pepper him, no luck! The fence is now working and the dog is under control.

Dog Three - this time three of the smaller size dogs ambushed me while I'm clipping along on a wet road. One cut in front of me and I hit the breaks only to start a sideways slide so I released the pressure and t-boned him, this is where a 15 to 20 pound dog can get the best of you! After the impact I went over him, came down and went over the bars and landed on my outstretched hands while doing everything I could to protect my head. These must not have been friendly dogs as not one of them were licking my face as lay in the road while getting my senses back. I ended up with a broken finger that gives me trouble shifting the big rings.

In each case there was a real danger caused by these dogs and I was very lucky to only have a broken finger. It doesn't make any difference if they are friendly or aggressive they can get you, so keep an eye on them! If you don't think a dog can cause some major hurt, ride with some of the groups I ride with, they all have had unpleasant dog encounters! When a dog is seen all you hear is ten or fifteen people yelling (dog right or dog left) while everyone is scrambling to keep out of each other's way and away from the dog, a real tense situation!

TheLastOfUs

God damn, you seriously scared the crap out of her LOL

TimothyH

OC pepper spray is legal to carry and use in all 50 states.

Some states have restrictions on where and how it can be purchased, how much the container can hold, etc., but it is legal in all 50 states.

You can't buy it online and have it shipped to New Jersey. You have to buy it in person. It is legal to carry and use a container holding up to 3/4 oz.

The restriction in MA was that you had to have a license to buy it but that was lifted in 2014. It was the same license required to buy ammunition. But it was never completely illegal in MA.


-Tim-

Maelochs

I think the issue in New Jersey was that at least in the northern third of the state, air quality was already so bad that no kind of pepper spray at legal concentrations was likely to have any effect anyway. Dogs were used to living in an atmosphere of toxins and irritants.

TimothyH

I think there is still confusion over the different types of sprays.

OC Pepper spray is neither a toxin nor an irritant. It is an inflammatory agent, not an irritant, and contains no toxic chemicals. It is made from hot peppers and is environmentally safe, doesn't contaminate the environment. OC pepper spray wears off completely and leaves the person or animal completely unharmed.

CN and CS sprays are irritants and contain toxic chemicals including tear gas. They are environmental hazards as the ingredients don't break down and they contaminate the area they are sprayed in. CN and CS is also believed to be carcinogenic in sufficient quantities.

Sabre now ships OC spray to New Jersey so the law in NJ might have changed. Currently they won't ship to AK, DC, HI, MA nor NY.


-Tim-

Mr IGH

As I understand the issue from my short internet research, gelled OC is illegal in Jersey but I didn't actually check because I wouldn't go there on a bet....

TimothyH

I don't know the law but Sabre will ship pepper gel to NJ.