msl109

Just repaired an old set of Weinmann levers using Dia Compe bodies and pivots. Exact copy. The DC pivots were less worn, so I used those. Originals were red anodized, these were just bare aluminum. Mechanically identical pivots. ( Someone is probably calling me a heretic by now). Anyway, can't help but notice there a lot of interest in the anodized pivot color - red, black, none - why do we care? Do we care? Why did they bother anodizing them in the first place? To prevent oxidation? Curiosity has got me. Someone knows ....

Btw, I have heard in the end, DC was making a lot of Weinmann's stuff - no idea who made these.

Salamandrine 

Dia Compe AFAIK officially licensed the Weinmann design, and it was all above board and legit. I have no idea why the pivots were red anodized, presumably because they looked cool.

msl109

So they licensed the design and then ended up producing them for them.
Don't think the dots look that cool under hoods.
What I'm getting at is why, say, sellers on auction sites make a point of the color of the dots. Must be important to someone ...

T-Mar

Yoshigai Kikai Kinzoku invented the brake safety lever, which was marketed under their Dia (later Dia-Compe) brand. Weinmann wanted to license the design, but instead they came to a mutually beneficial technology exchange agreement, circa 1963. If you look at 1960s Dia product, you will see that they are actually stamped Dia-Weinmann. Both Weinmann and Dia used circles as trademarks, over struck with their brand name and often with red fill. Anodizing the pivot was a simple way to incorporate the recognizable trademark into the product design. It's also why the bearing washers were typically red and red rubber was often used for pad material. It's all about subliminal brand recognition.

3speedslow

On the road right now...

What about the black dots for Weinmann?

big chainring 

I think the red dot reference is a carry over from the red button quick release levers Weinmann made in the 60's.

Kinda similar is the centerpole brake misspelling that became common in ads from Sears to Morrie Mages.

T-Mar

I'm not positive but I believe the non-red Weinmann pivots may have involved product outside the time frame and terms of the technology exchange agreement.

ollo_ollo

Righto, had a 1964 Schwinn Super Sport once that had red button brake levers. Sold to a collector who was quite excited over the levers, and adjustable stem with track bars that were on the bike. Here is the only pic I could easily find: Weinmann AG Red Button QR Brake Levers: 1950's / 1960's - Bike Recyclery Don

uncle uncle

I thought Schwinn always used rebranded (and some times not rebranded) Wienmann brakes, but had their own "gold" anodized signature... used in all those places where red was usually used?

Metacortex

Right, for 1969 and later Schwinn specified Weinmann and/or Dia-Compe levers with gold/orange anodized "dots" (prior years were standard red) and at the same time I believe Raleigh used black so people restoring those models tend to look for the correct color.

msl109

You guys answered just about every question I had and then some. But add another person posted, what about the black dots? Any of this have to do with the switch from Swiss production - I have two pair of calipers, both Weinmann, one imprinted with Made in Switzerland on the rear, the other no imprint. And when did DC start making brakes FOR Weinmann?

3speedslow

I think @Metacortex answered the black dot question- Raleigh used that one.

Grand Bois

I have first generation Dura Ace brake levers with red dots. I always thought it made them look cheap.

msl109

Ah, ok - missed that.

msl109

Great info!

clubman 

\


It's why we keep him around.

due ruote 

Would the same apply to 610/750 calipers? I have some with red labels and a pair with black labels. Other than that I don't see any distinguishing features.

Metacortex

I suppose that might have happened at the start of the custom branded (private labeled) versions for Schwinn, Raleigh, et. al.

backmd

In the late 1970s I worked on thousands of these center pull calipers. I cannot give you measurements but this is what I noticed, the diacompe brake has 3 spring coils vs weinmann brake which has 2 coils. After you lubricate the entire brake during a go over job (brakes and gears) the weinmann brake feels different. Squeezing the brake lever, the brake contacts the rim and no longer moves. With the dia compe the brake contacts the rim and the brake lever moves another cm or so. So we used to call them spongy. Every thing else is identical. I do not know whether the sponginess was from the 3 spring coils or the metal alloy itself. It was probably the metal alloy bending slightly on compression of the brake lever.

3speedslow

Zombie thread... sadly I don’t even remember replying to this thread two times before!

msl109

Yes, Zombie thread, but still good info coming in..

ShannonM

Maybe it's just me, but prefer reanimated corpses to newborn babies.

As long as you're adding new information or asking a new question, better to add to an old thread than to start a new one on the same topic. This makes searching much easier. Which is important because V-bulletin's search function has been horribly broken since at least the early 2000s, everybody including the developers knows it, and they've never fixed it. I think I remember them saying, in response to all of the copmlaints, "Search sucks. Deal with it." Google site search works almost infinitely better for actual searching, but both the advanced search and the results interface in V-bulletin stomp it into the dirt. It's the back end that's utterly borked. (And if you think it's bad here, just imagine the pain that the "more than 3 characters" rule causes on a gun forum!)

--Shannon

PS: Yeah, yeah, I know... I just posted an OT comment to a zombie thread. Bad BBSer! Bad! Bad!

[hangs_head_in_shame]
[walks_slowly_away]

oneclick 

Is that why I can only see the first page of search results, even though the page reports more than one page's worth?