rbrides

My calfs become sore and tight after rides. But not any other muscles. What aspects of bike fit could address this?

Carbonfiberboy 

My guess is that your saddle is too high, forcing you to pedal toes down. If you have a trainer, you could set up a mirror beside you or have someone video you as you pedal. The sole of your shoe should be level at the bottom of the pedal stroke.

It's also possible that you saddle is not too high, but rather that you pedal toes down by habit.

It's also possible that you are "ankling" during the pedal stroke. "Ankling" means flexing your ankle during the downstroke. Relax your ankle all the way around the pedal circle, except lift your toe just before your foot goes over the top.

The other cure is to leave your fit alone and simply do one-legged, full-range-of-motion calf raises on a stair step. Put the ball of your foot on the stair, a couple fingers on a wall, the other foot hooked behind the ankle of the active foot, and go at it. Bombproof is being able to do one set of 30 of those with each leg. Do it every other day until you can do 30. I'm 77, not skinny, and I can do 30. Haven't had a calf issue since I started doing that.

rbrides

great input. I particularly like checking that the sole of my foot is level at the bottom. Makes great sense but I’ve not thought of that. Ankling and naturally pedaling toes-down are likely, and to me, interrelated, because of over-developed calfs from a previous past career.

I’ll video myself to look for and assess my technique. Thank you.

rbrides

Also this.

Yes, the internet has LOTS of posts about calf muscle + cycling. But I greatly respect the Bike Forum members and always like the wisdom from this community.

Carbonfiberboy 

Agree, but can you do the 30 reps with those big calves? Fun story . . . at a previous gym, now long out of business because of OTC distribution of drugs, a big guy was doing 2-legged standing calf raises with 1000 lbs. I asked "Why so much weight?" He said, "Gotta stimulate 'em." That phrase has stuck with me. Yeah, gotta stimulate 'em. Fits a lot of situations.

And thanks for the vote of confidence for the many wonderful, knowledgeable cyclists who take the time to post here. This is not Twitter - most of the time.

Iride01 

I might also wonder if your cleats are too far forward on your shoes or if you don't use cleats, then are your feet too far back on the pedal. That longer distance from the pedal spindle to the ankle joint will mean your calf muscles will be having to deal with a lot of the power you put into the pedals.

Although it'll feel funny for more than several rides, moving your foot forward on the pedal might help.

Otherwise Carbonfiberboy covered the better possibility IMO.

PeteHski

I'll second the idea of moving your cleats more rearward (assuming you are clipped in). It definitely reduces calf stress.

rbrides

thanks for participating. My cleats are as far back as they will go. I sometime wonder if they are too far back!

rbrides

here is a link to video of my pedal stroke. Gee, it sure looks like I’m pointing my toes down.

rbrides

Here is the video in slow motion.

Iride01 

Why wonder? Just move them forward a little and see if you prefer that.

If your rides are all about how well you perform, you might double check your data for a dozen rides before and after changing to see if it's affected your numbers. Otherwise your own personal comfort is all that matters.

Carbonfiberboy 

Yeah, you do ankle just a little at the bottom of the stroke. Try relaxing your ankles and feeling for your heel cups during the downstroke. The thing to watch in the video is the change in angle between the foot and lower leg, rather than the angle of the foot w/r to the horizontal. I've always had my pedal axle under my big toe knuckle. Exact position of the pedal axle shouldn't matter to your calves if you ankle is relaxed during most of the pedal stroke. And your calves are not that big. I ride with guys with bigger calves than that. Nice definition.

Chuck Naill

The pain is not while riding?

rbrides

No pain while riding. My calves fatigue on extended rides or climbs (70 miles, or 4500 ft climbing or various, more difficult gravel routes). I guess fatigue can be considered painful but it is most often that evening/night after or next day.
To me, the symptom getting my attention is that it is always my calves and only my calves. I can do a century ride and no other muscle is bothered by it.

Chuck Naill

Okay, was thinking about intermittent claudication for which pain is felt during exercise.

phughes

I believe your seat is too high. The back of your knee seems to accelerate at the bottom of the stroke, which means you basically lose control of the motion instead of being able to pedal smoothly throughout the circle. You are also toes down.

Keep in mind the trick of setting seat height at the bottom of the stroke is misleading. I set mine with the crank in line with the seat tube, which extends your leg more than with the pedal perpendicular to the floor.

I had mine set similar to yours when I first set up my touring bike. That resulted in and injured Achilles tendon. It was swollen and sore. After lowering the seat it has never been and issue since.

Carbonfiberboy 

I guess - check it out on Myvelofit, eh?

See what your knee ankle is with your current saddle height, then lower saddle. You might use the heel-on-pedal method rather than measuring - google. Then recheck that knee angle with the app, with your foot more or less level at the bottom.

Road Fan

I think this is a strong possibility. I usually interpret post-workout pain (especially after yoga but when I cycle or take long walks as well) as the breakdown of muscle which has been stressed by the workout, and which needs to recover and rebuild. A saddle too high could cause excessive calf flexing especially if there is that knee acceleration - your knee is trying to keep up with your foot to pedal contact point. I think of two approaches - reduce saddle height to make sure your foot contact remains easy. No knee straightening to stay in pedal contact, and no high knee pressure or foot pressure at bottom dead center. If you're trying to drive your foot through the pedal at bottom, your saddle needs to edge up bit by bit, but not so much that you start to rock your pelvis side to side. It can be a fine line.

Moving your saddle fore or aft can also subtly affect knee extension, as can adjusting saddle tilt, or moving your foot fore or aft on the pedal such as by a cleat adjustment.

My yoga teacher has suggested that after a session (90 minutes) we eat some protein (remember the old advice to eat a Clif bar within 30 minutes after a ride to improve recovery?) to help realize successive subtle increases in strength throughout your body. In yoga the strength improvement helps with balances such as the classic one-legged Tree Pose, and the bent-knee full-weight poses such as Warriors 1 through 3, not to mention the dozens of others. The added strength improves balance by strengthening all those little muscles in your foot and calf and that enables you to connect your drive forces into your pedals. It seems that protein supports regrowth of muscle, exchanging tired 70 year old muscle tissue for young, new muscle tissue (even for septuagenarians!). While I still get sore muscles, yoga is like cycling - when you achieve any given level, it only enables you to seek the next one.

rbrides

I posted the question in a different BF group if anyone recommended that app, myvelofit. What is your opinion of it?

rbrides

great input. I do yoga a few time a week and agree with your comments.

Carbonfiberboy 

So true. I don't do yoga, I work out in a gym, but the effect of strength on balance is very clear.

Unfortunately, we don't get new muscle tissue. We have what we're born with. The cells do get larger, though. It's not just muscle. More importantly it's the neuromuscular connections which are stimulated by operating said muscles. A few weeks in the gym and the pedals feel much lighter.https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK26853/

There have been some quite cruel experiments with birds (dinosaurs) which show that their flying muscle fibers can be encouraged to divide and create new muscle fibers rather than simply making those fibers larger. We mammals can't do that.

oldbobcat

You might want to move your cleats back a bit and lower the saddle a couple millimeters to compensate. You might be riding toes-down to because the saddle is too high, to shorten the force arm of your foot, to stabilize your heel, or a combination of the above. Also, check the cleat angle. I've found that riding pigeon-toed (toes pointing inward) can strain the outside of the foot, ankle, and calf and inhibit the flexibility to drop the heel.

DaveSSS 

I'm wondering how your saddle setback was determined. KOP is often recommended, but I've always used a further back position, since I do a lot of climbing. Your do look to be pedaling too much toes down, which might mean you're saddle is too high. I've got well developed calf muscles too, but never have calf soreness. I've been surprised have some of today's best pro GC riders don't have big calves.
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