erina2

I have an opportunity to buy a Panasonic Touring Deluxe but, since I'll have to drive a few hours to look at it, I was wondering if anyone could advise:

Its an '85, all original 19" frame.

I'm wondering if this would be a suitable bike for someone 5'2" tall (my 50cm '76 Motobecane Mirage is too big for me; the 50cm top tube is too long)
And about how heavy would it be? I"m interested in some light touring with probably not much more than 15 lbs of gear for paved and some dirt trails like the C&O Canal.
Could I fit tires of at least 32mm on it?

Thanks!!

erina2

Just found an article which answers my third question. Looks like it can fit 38mm tires max.

Lascauxcaveman 

abshipp 

Welcome to the forum!

I found this archive of the 1985 catalog:

1985 Panasonic Catalog

Unfortunately, it appears that the 19" Touring Deluxe has a 53cm top tube.

Stock tires are 27 x 1 1/4, which comes out to about 31mm.

Weight would likely be in the 25-27lb range. I know that's a pretty big gap, but I remember my 1986 Schwinn Passage was about 27lbs and it was a 58cm frame. You could expect the smaller frame size to weigh slightly less.

zze86

The Panasonic Bike Museum website shows the 19" model's top tube to be 530mm, although the seat and head tubes are not parallel which would affect your reach somewhat. Still, I think this would outside of your range if you prefer to be around 50cm.



Frankly, the only vintage touring model (or at least as we've come to generally define them) that comes close to that spec is the 47cm Specialized Expedition which had a TT around 51cm. The smallest Miyata and Fuji Touring models had TTs around 53cm as well. The Trek 520, which at the time was more of a sports bicycle, was briefly available in 18" with a TT of 49.5cm. The smallest Trek 720 was a 19" with TT around 53cm. Vintage Trek site.

The reach issue can be somewhat alleviated by raising the handlebars up with a longer quill stem.

Are you sure its a reach issue? Do you feel too stretched out or is there cramping in the legs?

Edit: whoops, Abshipp beat me to the Panasonic site.

zze86

I should also add a touring bike does not necessarily have to have drop bars on it. You could switch the bars out for some Northroads or other handlebars to reduce the reach and for more comfort.

erina2

Thank you, this is extremely helpful! I'm still learning a lot about vintage bikes and bike fit and everything really.

The problem I have with the 50cm (50cm top tube) Motobecane Mirage is that while I can just BARELY stand over the top tube, I had to put a 80mm stem on it because with the longer stem I felt too stretched out and had too much weight on my hands and wrists for comfort. I think the short stem has made the bike a bit twitchy and I'm hoping to find something that will fit me better, especially for longer rides. I also love drop bars for longer rides although if touring bars would help with reach I could try those.

I'll probably start a new topic about this, but what are my options? Sounds like I either need to give up on a C&V tourer and save up for a 650b Surly or something, or find one of those 47cm Specialized Expeditions or small Treks and hope a short stem will be ok? (Custom frames are probably out of my price range, unfortunately!)

Velo Mule

Would you consider a mixte?

Aubergine 

52telecaster

I routinely use a 60mm technomic stem and feel no twitchyness on my bikes. I think you get used to the way they handle pretty quickly.

gugie 

Another thing to consider would be a 650b conversion. If you were thinking about 700c x 38's, 650b x 38's would give you more standover room.

Erina

zze86

There are a few things you could try.

With your Motobecane you could try adding a front rack or basket and load it up to see how it handles. Usually, adding some weight up front will slow the steering somewhat. As @gugie pointed out, a 650b conversion could help out with the standover over.

As for possibly looking for a new frame/bike, a mixte or step through would be a great option to help with the standover. These can be hard to find though and may not alleviate the reach issue without new bars as well. I personally, think they look classier with some Northroads or Albatross bars rather than drop bars but you do lose hand positions. Raleigh, Motobecane, Lotus, Puch, Panasonic and Centurion models are nice makes. Some of these makers made high end models using Reynolds 531 as well.

Another alternative could be the 80's ATBs and 90's hardtail MTBs. Some of these had really nice tubing and lug construction as well. The original Specialized Stumpjumper and early 90's Trek 900 series come immediately to mind. These should have lower standover heights since they use 26" wheels. Top tube may be longer than desireable but it will be hard to find a 50cm reach regardless.

Best of luck in the hunt!

Aubergine 

Lascauxcaveman 

Salamandrine 

Erina

rhm

On the smallest frames made for 700c or 27" wheels, the helmetge gets weird. To make a short seat tube they would often raise the bottom bracket, work the result that the top tube remains as high as you'd expect with a bigger bike.

In that case, you can consider converting a frame to use 26" wheels, which will lower the bb and top tube nicely. Brakes are an issue then (you might have to have @gugie install cantilever bosses).

coolkat

I'd switch to Soma Highway One bars, or use a threadless adapter with some modern drop bars. Vintage drop bars have an incredibly long reach compared to modern compacts. It'll bring things A LOT closer

FlMTNdude

erina2

coolkat - I hadn't heard of those bars! They might be a big help for my Motobecane if nothing else, thanks!

TiGuyTim

hey there! Do you still have the article? I just bought a Touring Deluxe on eBay and it needs a little work. Thanks!

romperrr 

I'd recommend finding a Terry bike in a smaller size. Terry made bikes for women, who on average are shorter than men, so their smaller models use a 24" front wheel. The consequences of this are proportional TT to ST and consistent HT angles throughout their sizes- often times smaller frames have shallower HT angles to avoid the front wheel hitting the DT. They do offer touring models complete with cantilevers and extra braze-on's, though the common Symmetry model has rack mounts and double bottle cages so suitable for touring. I think you can fit 32mm tyres on the Symmetry.

Good luck!

bikemig 

26 inch wheel bikes make a lot of sense in small frame sizes. I'd search for a top end vintage MTB to convert to gravel/light touring or a Bridgestone XO series bike many (but not all) of which were built around 26 inch wheels.

The Golden Boy 

3 year old zombie bump