Latex tubes with GP5000 tires?
#76
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Yes!, I have an old Silca pump that works well. I think your probably correct here, because that’s exactly what is happening with the valve. Where did you get the valve holders? I’m sure that will be the solution if I can find some. I’m able to ride 4, 5 times a week, so that means pumping the tires on these days. I’ve also noticed that valve doesn’t quite fit the hole in my rim, or, it can move up and down.
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Yes!, I have an old Silca pump that works well. I think your probably correct here, because that’s exactly what is happening with the valve. Where did you get the valve holders? I’m sure that will be the solution if I can find some. I’m able to ride 4, 5 times a week, so that means pumping the tires on these days. I’ve also noticed that valve doesn’t quite fit the hole in my rim, or, it can move up and down.
The old Silca design where the pump head just pushes onto the valve and relies on a tight grommet seems flawed to me. That big brass pump head is heavy and over time all that pushing down on the partly deflated latex inner tube I believe is what makes the vulcanized perimeter of the valve to fail.
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I have my own theory as to why this happens (eventually) with latex tubes. Yes, rim tape has to be right but there can be the issue of how you pump the tires.
Could you share what your specific pre-ride pressurizing practice is? Like what type of pump are you using and what kind of pump head does it have? Fussing with pushing or wiggling the valve for me made this area fail (on 3 or 4 latex tubes (both Vittoria and Challenge brand). The smooth valve stem I was pushing it in a little each time I inflated my tires and since latex have to be topped up before each ride, this area of the tube takes more stress than butyl. Latex tubes could benefit from threaded presta stems that take the little nut to keep them in place.
I just posted a picture of my smooth presta stem holder on a thread yesterday. Was that you Bamicus asking on a different thread? Just curious. Here is another photo of my 6mm nylon locking stop collar: ….sorry my photo library says “downloading from iCloud” - will try a bit later.
Anyway: since I went to these collars on my latex tubed bike, the issue with failed valve stems has not recurred.
Could you share what your specific pre-ride pressurizing practice is? Like what type of pump are you using and what kind of pump head does it have? Fussing with pushing or wiggling the valve for me made this area fail (on 3 or 4 latex tubes (both Vittoria and Challenge brand). The smooth valve stem I was pushing it in a little each time I inflated my tires and since latex have to be topped up before each ride, this area of the tube takes more stress than butyl. Latex tubes could benefit from threaded presta stems that take the little nut to keep them in place.
I just posted a picture of my smooth presta stem holder on a thread yesterday. Was that you Bamicus asking on a different thread? Just curious. Here is another photo of my 6mm nylon locking stop collar: ….sorry my photo library says “downloading from iCloud” - will try a bit later.
Anyway: since I went to these collars on my latex tubed bike, the issue with failed valve stems has not recurred.
My mini pumps all have threaded chucks, which probably apply less stress.
Next time I use my floor pump to inflate a latex tube I might try deflating it completely, then reinflating to minimize stress on partially inflated tubes.
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https://www.zoro.com/ruland-manufact...-a/i/G8383977/
They even make a QR version if you're a weight weenie and want to take off the collar after inflating
They even make a QR version if you're a weight weenie and want to take off the collar after inflating
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Just snug them up with your metric Allen wrench (can't remember the size - it might be the tiny 2.5 mm one). Yes, I would Inflate the tire to see how high the valve comes up then snug the 6 mm clamp onto the valve next to the rim. It would be cool if the stop can be contoured to whatever specific rim profile you have.
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https://www.zoro.com/ruland-manufact...-a/i/G8383977/
They even make a QR version if you're a weight weenie and want to take off the collar after inflating
They even make a QR version if you're a weight weenie and want to take off the collar after inflating
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+1 for Vittoria. Currently running these: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B084CXNQ35...roduct_details w/ GP 5000 Classics. Love the combo.
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I'm a fan of vittoria latex with gp5000s. Noticed an improvement in RR at higher speeds but the extra suppleness and ability to run 10psi lower f&r without the risk of pinch flats was the main reason to move over from butyl. The only failure I've had (in thousands of road miles) was due to not making sure the interior of the tire (purchased used from someone who employed a tubeless setup) was scrubbed clean before install.. I missed a small dried speck of sealant that punctured the tube as I inflated it for the first time. latex is certainly delicate compared with butyl but if one is careful during install the risks can be greatly minimized.
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You perceive no difference because your boundaries of "performance" is narrow, like riding at a constast speed in a straightline.
However, when I'm talking "performance", i'm talking about many factors, like high-G cornering while trailbraking. This is where I'd use latex on the front, this gives me great road feedback into my arms and fingers that are squeezing the lever, and feedback translate to confidence at higher speed.
I personally don't use latex because of its slightly better rolling resistance compared to butyl, main reason being the higher cost of latex.
As for tubeless. I won't use the if the tire size is not at least 32c. Tubeless tires have sidewalls that are too hard (it's necessary for tubeless), and to compensate for the hard sidewall, people run at lower psi. This is fine going in a straightline. The problem is high-g corners. Lower pressure makes the tire tend to "fold" in high-g corners, this gives an ambiguos road feedbak to the fingers. A highend clincher like Veloflex or Vittoria with latex doesn't do this, you can run them at higher psi (to avoid the "folding" feeling) while still getting great road feedback due to the suppleness.
I could also make a counter argument about using tubeless (with low psi) in fast group rides. Low psi will feel like you're acclerating in mud out of corners, and fast group rides we do this a lot, repeatedly, and if you gradually lose positions at every corner, then it's only a matter of time you'll slip off the back. In this setting, I don't care about comfort or rolling resistance, I care about instant acceleration where I won't lose the wheel of the guy in front.
Not everyone is out there doing high-g corners, but than again not everyone is interested in riding in a straight line at constant speed all day either.
The debate of tubeless, regular clincher, latex, butyl,... to me is choosing difference horses for different courses. In the car world, I don't want to bring a soft and comfty truck tire to a road course with flip-flopping high-g corners.
However, when I'm talking "performance", i'm talking about many factors, like high-G cornering while trailbraking. This is where I'd use latex on the front, this gives me great road feedback into my arms and fingers that are squeezing the lever, and feedback translate to confidence at higher speed.
I personally don't use latex because of its slightly better rolling resistance compared to butyl, main reason being the higher cost of latex.
As for tubeless. I won't use the if the tire size is not at least 32c. Tubeless tires have sidewalls that are too hard (it's necessary for tubeless), and to compensate for the hard sidewall, people run at lower psi. This is fine going in a straightline. The problem is high-g corners. Lower pressure makes the tire tend to "fold" in high-g corners, this gives an ambiguos road feedbak to the fingers. A highend clincher like Veloflex or Vittoria with latex doesn't do this, you can run them at higher psi (to avoid the "folding" feeling) while still getting great road feedback due to the suppleness.
I could also make a counter argument about using tubeless (with low psi) in fast group rides. Low psi will feel like you're acclerating in mud out of corners, and fast group rides we do this a lot, repeatedly, and if you gradually lose positions at every corner, then it's only a matter of time you'll slip off the back. In this setting, I don't care about comfort or rolling resistance, I care about instant acceleration where I won't lose the wheel of the guy in front.
Not everyone is out there doing high-g corners, but than again not everyone is interested in riding in a straight line at constant speed all day either.
The debate of tubeless, regular clincher, latex, butyl,... to me is choosing difference horses for different courses. In the car world, I don't want to bring a soft and comfty truck tire to a road course with flip-flopping high-g corners.
Imho, I think I can feel a difference in ride and handling between clinchers and tubulars, although I’d be afraid to put that belief to a double blind test. I’m pretty confident I can tell the difference between tubed and tubeless clinchers, almost entirely from the difference in air pressure run.
I don’t believe I can tell any difference between the ride feel or handling of latex vs butyl.
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for potential 'tears/wear' around the presta valve, either from a sharp valve hole, or from issues relating to using a hand pump improperly or floor pump head putting side pressure on valve.
For many years I've been using a buffer shim, made from an old butyl tube, over the valve and surrounding base/tube. From an old, no longer used tube, cut a small section of tube, rectangle or oval (size to your liking - I like about .75 - 1 inch wide, 1 - 1.25" lengthwise). cut a small hole in center, slightly smaller than diameter of valve - small scissors do a fine job - place the tube shim over the valve down at the valve base/tube, narrower side fits rim width... mount tube/tire as normal.
This shim eliminates potential cuts/breaks at valve stem from the rim valve hole - works for butyl or latex tubes.
Also helps reduce the chance of tube tears from manhandling while attempting to pump ... best method to eliminate that is to use proper handling techniques for placing pump head onto valve and using a good supported handling of portable/frame hand pumps when pumping in the field...
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no reason to glue
If the hole cut into the tube shim is just a wee bit smaller than valve diameter, the shim will stretch and remain in place, and protect the valve/tube area.
when I 'replace' a tube in tire/wheel, the shim is transferred to new tube before install.
it's always good to be gentle when attaching a pump head, especially a handheld pump. I put some thumb pressure on the tire/tread to help steady the valve when attaching a pump/head.
If I'm using a small handheld pump which has the head directly attached (no hose) I recommend holding the pump with a supportive hand - see photo
This assures you're not going to damage/tear the tube around the valve.
Proper handling of small portable pump when inflating... Important to support and steady pump/pumphead with hand, FOREFINGER and THUMB. Then 'unlock' pump and give a sharp downward tap on pump, near pump head, to detach from valve... no wrangling of pump for removal !!!
I've watched riders who have 'torn' 2 replacement tubes because they hamfisted and man-handled the pump when trying to re-inflate a tube/tire...
Once I offered my spare tube... gave a suggestion, which was ignored - guy tore the 2nd tube... Funny and sad !!! LOL!
I won't be doin that again... LOL!
Ride On
Yuri
If the hole cut into the tube shim is just a wee bit smaller than valve diameter, the shim will stretch and remain in place, and protect the valve/tube area.
when I 'replace' a tube in tire/wheel, the shim is transferred to new tube before install.
it's always good to be gentle when attaching a pump head, especially a handheld pump. I put some thumb pressure on the tire/tread to help steady the valve when attaching a pump/head.
If I'm using a small handheld pump which has the head directly attached (no hose) I recommend holding the pump with a supportive hand - see photo
This assures you're not going to damage/tear the tube around the valve.
Proper handling of small portable pump when inflating... Important to support and steady pump/pumphead with hand, FOREFINGER and THUMB. Then 'unlock' pump and give a sharp downward tap on pump, near pump head, to detach from valve... no wrangling of pump for removal !!!
I've watched riders who have 'torn' 2 replacement tubes because they hamfisted and man-handled the pump when trying to re-inflate a tube/tire...
Once I offered my spare tube... gave a suggestion, which was ignored - guy tore the 2nd tube... Funny and sad !!! LOL!
I won't be doin that again... LOL!
Ride On
Yuri