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Wear Bright Clothing Please

Old 06-05-13, 01:48 PM
  #76  
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Originally Posted by RoadHolland View Post
It's hard for me not to comment here, especially since I make a lot of cycling clothes, and none can be characterized as BRIGHT or NEON (well we do have a lime-green tshirt). I do agree that cyclists should use front and rear lights when their visibility is in question. But saying that a cyclist has to go out and ride head to toe in bright yellow warning clothes is really unnecessary. Why are bicyclists being told they need to ride these clothes when motorcyclists have been enjoying their denim and leather for decades? I think what you are mistakenly saying is that bicycling is dangerous and that we should be scared to go out and ride on our streets. This is false, and preventing cyclists from wearing normal looking clothing just sends a message to drivers that we shouldn't be there. Share the Road is the answer, and wear what you want to.

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Hear hear

Now THAT is a nice looking and reasonably visible jersey in your avatar.

Last edited by Zinger; 06-05-13 at 06:05 PM.
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Old 06-05-13, 02:59 PM
  #77  
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Originally Posted by RoadHolland View Post
Why are bicyclists being told they need to ride these clothes when motorcyclists have been enjoying their denim and leather for decades?
The argument doesn't stack up. There is a vast disparity in the speeds of a bicycle and a motor vehicle on open highways (less so in some urban setting). Therefore motor vehicles, including motor cycles, will be overtaking bicycles in almost every encounter.

Motorcycles generally can travel as fast as cars and trucks. Therefore, they are able to position themselves on the road differently, and overtaking motorcycles by cars and trucks is less.

The issue for motorcyclists is the very fact they can position themselves on the road differently, as well as their comparable speed -- they can appear within a split second in a rear vision mirror, or can be between vehicles and cannot be seen until a passing vehicle draws level.

There was an essay written a decade or more ago about bicyclists riding BIG -- using devices such as panniers -- so the presence of the bike was increased in the eyes of drivers. For those interested, it might be worth using a search engine to see if it still exists.

Last edited by Rowan; 06-05-13 at 06:43 PM.
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Old 06-05-13, 05:17 PM
  #78  
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Originally Posted by RoadHolland View Post
It's hard for me not to comment here, especially since I make a lot of cycling clothes, and none can be characterized as BRIGHT or NEON (well we do have a lime-green tshirt). I do agree that cyclists should use front and rear lights when their visibility is in question. But saying that a cyclist has to go out and ride head to toe in bright yellow warning clothes is really unnecessary. Why are bicyclists being told they need to ride these clothes when motorcyclists have been enjoying their denim and leather for decades? I think what you are mistakenly saying is that bicycling is dangerous and that we should be scared to go out and ride on our streets. This is false, and preventing cyclists from wearing normal looking clothing just sends a message to drivers that we shouldn't be there. Share the Road is the answer, and wear what you want to.
Share the road is all well and good but if other road users can't see us they don't know they are supposed to be sharing with us.

I don't feel a need to be plastered in reflective piping and endless nasty shades of yellow and green but, for example, wearing a camoflage jacket and long camoflaged pants while riding in the forest with no lights does seem like a spectacularly stupid thing to do. No motorist is going to give you any space if they don't even know you are there, and when you're wearing clothes designed to Not Be Seen you're making it ever-less likely they will know you are there until they either run into you, or they are so close they can't slow to your speed fast enough to avoid hitting you.

The big difference between cyclists and motorcyclists is that cyclists typically travel at significantly less than the prevailing traffic speed, and that speed differential means we need to be seen as a motorist approaching from behind will need to either slow down behind us or go around us. A motorcyclist isn't going to present that issue.
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Old 06-05-13, 08:07 PM
  #79  
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Why are bicyclists being told they need to ride these clothes when motorcyclists have been enjoying their denim and leather for decades? I think what you are mistakenly saying is that bicycling is dangerous and that we should be scared to go out and ride on our streets.
Motorcycle fatalities are up when auto fatalities are down. According to the [h=3]Hurt Report
The failure of motorists to detect and recognize motorcycles in traffic is the predominating cause of motorcycle accidents...Conspicuity of the motorcycle is a critical factor in the multiple vehicle accidents, and accident involvement is significantly reduced by the use of motorcycle headlamps-on In daylight and the wearing of high visibility yellow, orange or bright red jackets."
[/h]
And yes cycling can be dangerous.
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Old 06-05-13, 08:23 PM
  #80  
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Share the Road is the answer, and wear what you want to.
I do share the road with....drivers who are texting on their phones, drivers who are multi-tasking, drivers who are engaged in cell phone conversations, eating and drinking drivers, drivers applying makeup, drivers tending to the dog on their lap, drivers who watching their kids behind them, drowsy drivers, elderly drivers and oh yeah...the drunk and drug impaired drivers (that includes prescription drugs).

I'll stick to my bright colors, to increase my chances, when sharing the road.
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Old 06-05-13, 08:49 PM
  #81  
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Originally Posted by B. Carfree View Post
No offense, but if you hit someone who is right in front of you, it's not their fault. Perhaps you have reached "that time" in life. Please have your vision checked in its entirety, as in a full visual field and acuity test. Deteriorating vision has a way of sneaking up on us and no one wants to cause avoidable harm to others. Well, no good person does and all the people in this forum are good people, so there is no need to address the 0.001%.
Rude! You weren't there, you don't know the details. "Fog" covers a broad spectrum of visibility, including conditions where it's unsafe for any car, truck, or bike, even with lights. Every one of us has seen situations where cyclists or pedestrians are virtually invisible, and it's often caused by a combination of lighting, color, contrast, lack of lights, lack of reflectance.

Maybe Hawk Owl does have bad vision (but with that name his vision must be excellent, day or night!) but not seeing someone as he described is not much of a sign.

To Hawk Owl, good post. It reminds us all we need to think about our visibility.
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Old 06-06-13, 09:01 AM
  #82  
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Originally Posted by DnvrFox View Post
IMHO, multi-colored bright jerseys are, in essence, a form of camouflage when viewed from a distance - similar to the camouflage used in military situations, where they have numerous colors to mimic the background. I remember in WWII the multi-colored camouflage draped over numerous military producing installations, such as Convair in San Diego.
I always found this interesting (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dazzle_camouflage):
Dazzle camouflage, also known as razzle dazzle or dazzle painting, was a family of ship camouflage used extensively in World War I and to a lesser extent in World War II. Credited to artist Norman Wilkinson, it consisted of complex patterns of geometric shapes in contrasting colours, interrupting and intersecting each other.

Unlike some other forms of camouflage, dazzle works not by offering concealment but by making it difficult to estimate a target's range, speed and heading.
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Old 06-06-13, 09:12 AM
  #83  
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Originally Posted by stapfam View Post
Doesn't matter what colour you wear-they will all get lost in the background somewhere. I have seen yellow get lost in a field of Brassica Napus (Oilseed Ra pe) Black can stand out very well in town situations with grey Concrete buildings but in general brighter colours do get noticed very well. Best I have seen is any combination of two contrasting co;lours and the 50+ jersey is a good example of this being red but a large expanse of white in the shield.
I have to disagree. The new yellow-green is visible and distinct in every natural situation I've ever encountered. And it is the ONLY color I've not ever seen blend into any kind of background.
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Old 06-06-13, 09:21 AM
  #84  
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Originally Posted by HawkOwl View Post
After lunch opened up the sun roof to our clear sky and the Hot 80 degree day for a drive home the long way. It is a two lane paved road we use a lot for cycling. Scenery is good and now there is cell phone coverage for most of the road.

I saw several folks on a variety of bikes. Then came the shock. Despite being a cyclist and looking for bikes I missed one. Pure luck it didn't have a bad outcome.

This idiot, yes, idiot, was riding on the fog line dressed in olive drab pants, with a dingy blue T and a backpack that blended perfectly with the background. His bike was a dull rust color. All this I discovered after passing him from a rear overtake.

I was looking for bikers. I know what bikers look like. But he essentially was camouflaged.

Please wear bright clothing. It might save you.
If you can't see a guy riding a bike right in front of you in broad daylight you have a serious problem and should reconsider you choice to continue driving.

If you can't see a guy riding a bike right in front of you in broad daylight and then expect every single other road user you will encounter to change their habits to accommodate the danger you present, you have two serious problems.
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Old 06-06-13, 11:10 AM
  #85  
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Originally Posted by Commodus View Post
If you can't see a guy riding a bike right in front of you in broad daylight you have a serious problem and should reconsider you choice to continue driving or you should stop texting.
Fixed it. Unbelievable, but people drive and text, and those are some of the drivers whose attention you must attract.
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Old 06-06-13, 11:25 AM
  #86  
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Originally Posted by TromboneAl View Post
Ah ha!!

My new jersey design!!

ccorlew?
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Old 06-06-13, 11:34 AM
  #87  
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Originally Posted by dbg View Post
I have to disagree. The new yellow-green is visible and distinct in every natural situation I've ever encountered. And it is the ONLY color I've not ever seen blend into any kind of background.

Head for the hills in spring, when the trees are just starting to leaf out. There's a week or two every year when "high-vis" blends into the trees. The other 50 weeks a year it works well.
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Old 06-06-13, 02:54 PM
  #88  
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Originally Posted by HawkOwl View Post
After lunch opened up the sun roof to our clear sky and the Hot 80 degree day for a drive home the long way. It is a two lane paved road we use a lot for cycling. Scenery is good and now there is cell phone coverage for most of the road.

I saw several folks on a variety of bikes. Then came the shock. Despite being a cyclist and looking for bikes I missed one. Pure luck it didn't have a bad outcome.

This idiot, yes, idiot, was riding on the fog line dressed in olive drab pants, with a dingy blue T and a backpack that blended perfectly with the background. His bike was a dull rust color. All this I discovered after passing him from a rear overtake.

I was looking for bikers. I know what bikers look like. But he essentially was camouflaged.

Please wear bright clothing. It might save you.
Originally Posted by Commodus View Post
If you can't see a guy riding a bike right in front of you in broad daylight you have a serious problem and should reconsider you choice to continue driving.

If you can't see a guy riding a bike right in front of you in broad daylight and then expect every single other road user you will encounter to change their habits to accommodate the danger you present, you have two serious problems.
A cyclist wearing clothes that "blended perfectly with the background" is a bonehead. Whatever the lighting conditions there are some types of clothing that are difficult to see against similar coloured backgrounds. That's why military people wear camoflaged gear, so they are harder to see.

It's quite surprising what stands out and what doesn't stand out. As a keen cyclist on urban roads and also a motorist on those same roads part of what I do is look out to see what cyclists are wearing that is very visible and what is less visible. Some cyclists I can spot from a huge distance while others don't show up until they are much closer. That's ignoring the odd moron riding a black bike with all the reflectors removed (and no lights, naturally) while wearing black clothes on a dimly lit street at night.

Bright yellow is usually visible from a great distance but sometimes the cyclist in a bright yellow top is in front of a field of oilseed and doesn't show up so well. Pale greens stand out, until they are set against a pale coloured field. Blues stand out in wooded or urban areas but if you're cresting a hill and the background is a blue sky you might not show up as well. And so on.

Sometimes people make excuses to cover the fact they shouldn't really be driving any more; other times they really do have a near miss with someone doing their level best to Not Be Seen in a situation where Not Being Seen is a truly boneheaded thing to do.
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Old 06-06-13, 06:31 PM
  #89  
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I think it pays to bear in mind that we are likely dealing with two entirely different perspectives or cycling cultures here. It is likely that the person riding the bike in question was doing so on a very short casual ride, rather that being a full-on cyclist as the people responding to this thread may be.

Everyone does things that seem incredibly stupid to others (even the simple act of getting on a bike and riding 20 miles).

However, it is not unusual for people to go out at night, dressed in dark clothing, on a bike or on foot, relying on ambient lighting, to go a mile from their friend's home to their own. It is not unusual for someone to jump on their bike in their everyday clothes and take a quick spin down to the shops. To those people, it's just a part of going about their everyday business...

Ergo, not everyone gets dressed up in gear to ride their bikes. Not everyone rides with reflective gear and lights (if they even own such stuff). Sometimes, convenience is paramount. And convenience can be a fatal flaw in all our lives.
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Old 06-06-13, 07:09 PM
  #90  
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I have noticed more and more motorcyclists wearing high viz jackets or vests. It does stand out.
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Old 06-06-13, 10:13 PM
  #91  
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My winter, bad weather, night gear

I have a hi-viz green vest with reflective strips - for low light bad weather.
Also a neon green T-shirt for very hot summer evenings.

Front and rear lights on all my bikes, and helmet light.
Attached Images

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Old 06-07-13, 07:29 AM
  #92  
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A mesh/reflective safety vest can be picked up at any farm store or Harbor Freight for under $10. Under that - either a white or hi-viz lime T-shirt. Absolutely no dark colors! For cool rides, the vest goes over a hooded sweatshirt or longsleeve UnderArmor. If raining, it goes over the white garbage bag/disposable poncho (I always have one tucked into my seat framing!) or my hi-viz lime poncho. I want to be seen!!! Yeah, I may look like a dork/geek, but you don't get 'style points' if you're dead!
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Old 06-07-13, 09:20 AM
  #93  
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Originally Posted by contango View Post
A cyclist wearing clothes that "blended perfectly with the background" is a bonehead. ...
what an awful attitude.
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Old 06-10-13, 04:38 AM
  #94  
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I guess I'm a bonehead then, since I prefer all black ( unless I find something darker?) but I do use bright strobes on front and rear!
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Old 06-10-13, 05:00 AM
  #95  
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Originally Posted by HawkOwl View Post

I was looking for bikers. I know what bikers look like. But he essentially was camouflaged.

Please wear bright clothing. It might save you.
Apparently you don't actually know what bikers look like. Thousands of people ride bikes everyday without sporting hi-viz, special clothing. I ride to work daily, usually in my office clothes. Dress slacks, often a tie, none of which are hi-viz.

When I go to the grocery store, I don't spend 15 minutes getting all kitted up. No, usually I throw on the panniers and hop on, regardless of what I'm wearing.

The only thing the cyclist did wrong was riding the fog line. He should have been on the road in front of you.

And you need to pay more attention to your driving, IMHO.
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Old 06-10-13, 10:04 AM
  #96  
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Originally Posted by DGlenday View Post
This jersey, has the vehicle code printed on the front:



I guess the idea is that when an irate motorist yells "Get back on the sidewalk!" you have him read your chest. Somehow I don't think that's going to work well.
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Old 06-10-13, 11:09 AM
  #97  
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I have a winter jacket in dayglo yellow, and know I'm more visible when I ride it. Friends have told me so, and I honestly feel that cars give me a wider bearth. But I've not managed to find something that works in the summer. If only that green/yellow thing did NOT have the traffic code on the chest.
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Old 06-10-13, 11:21 AM
  #98  
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There are several you tube videos floating around that have a bearing on this thread. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vU_gDKQyQlo There are many situations where we see only what we expect to see as the video illustrates. This selective attention is what makes magicians successful.
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Old 06-10-13, 11:43 AM
  #99  
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Originally Posted by Commodus View Post
what an awful attitude.
Really?

I like to stay alive. Part of staying alive is making sure the big metal things approaching me at speed from behind can see me. If they don't see me they are more likely to run me over, not realising I was there.

I don't walk in the road after dark wearing black clothes for much the same reason. Presumably it's an "awful attitude" to think people who do are boneheads?
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Old 06-10-13, 11:44 AM
  #100  
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Originally Posted by technoD View Post
I guess I'm a bonehead then, since I prefer all black ( unless I find something darker?) but I do use bright strobes on front and rear!
The bright strobes to rather overcome the whole "blend into the background" thing
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