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Leaving Car Free Far Behind; Increasing Bike Theft & Even Jacking Changes The Reality

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Leaving Car Free Far Behind; Increasing Bike Theft & Even Jacking Changes The Reality

Old 06-10-13, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
That's because the average person who carries a gun has no real life combat experience. And has never been in a situation where their life was threatened. Unlike seasoned criminals who are very much used to living on the edge. I think situational awarness is a much better strategy, although sometimes honest citizens just can't help it and they find themselves in the wrong place at the wrong time with wrong type of people around them.
I think there's more to it than lack of combat experience. Another issue is that the first to draw their weapon will usually win a close quarters gun battle. And that will usually be the aggressor. (In fact, that's kind of the definition of "aggressor.")
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Old 06-10-13, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Roody View Post
I think there's more to it than lack of combat experience. Another issue is that the first to draw their weapon will usually win a close quarters gun battle. And that will usually be the aggressor. (In fact, that's kind of the definition of "aggressor.")
Also in Artkansas's case there were several of them, and already carrying weapons, unlike eg. the ones who accosted B Goetz.
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Old 06-15-13, 11:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Artkansas View Post
I've always felt that car-free is a day to day thing. A day I don't use a car, I'm car-free. If I rent a car, I'm not.
How dare you.
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Old 06-16-13, 12:19 AM
  #79  
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Originally Posted by wahoonc View Post
We just had a guy that broke into a school, which BTW is an automatic felony in NC and stole $3.20 worth of candy and a blue ball....

Aaron
We must know the same criminals : P.
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Old 06-16-13, 12:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Roody View Post
I have fantasized that I could slow down time so that nobody could attack me. Stupid, yes. But not much less realistic than the gun carriers who fantasize that they will be able to hold off seven armed guys who are trying to steal their bike.

Guns are great offensive weapons for criminals. They are less effective as defensive weapons for honest citizens.
You have been exploring the criminal fraternity, but, whatever your original intentions you have become truly lost. : D
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Old 06-17-13, 03:10 AM
  #81  
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Originally Posted by cooker View Post
Would being armed have helped in this case, if it was you?
It sure wouldn't have helped the perp, I can promise you that.
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Old 06-17-13, 03:17 AM
  #82  
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Originally Posted by Roody View Post
I have fantasized that I could slow down time so that nobody could attack me. Stupid, yes. But not much less realistic than the gun carriers who fantasize that they will be able to hold off seven armed guys who are trying to steal their bike.

Guns are great offensive weapons for criminals. They are less effective as defensive weapons for honest citizens.
Guns are a great offensive option for anyone with military combat training even when on a bicycle, and the proper mindset as a citizen too. A criminal in this case is likely to be news at 2300hours!
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Old 06-30-13, 04:03 AM
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As I walk through the valley of death, I shall fear no evil...... cause I'm the meanest S.O.B in the valley!
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Old 06-30-13, 05:57 AM
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This is what have always worried me about relying on a bike for my travels, even my daily commute to the train station to get to work. The amount of bikes I see still chained up, but missing there tires, or having their frames and spokes bent completely out of whack is frightening.
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Old 06-30-13, 12:08 PM
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If one can't bicycle anymore then move to a small 50 cc scooter. They're just as short as a bicycle and can be locked to bicycle racks. They just go much faster than the average bicyclist can go. They're also faster than criminals can run. Though a strong racer type on a bicycle can briefly sprint faster than a 50 cc motor scooter. A 150 cc motor scooter can go 55 mph and isn't much bigger. This solution is more expensive than buying a pistol and taking martial arts lessons.
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Old 07-21-13, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Dahon.Steve View Post
This is sad.

I had no idea FF became a motorist. Of all the people on the forum, I would have expected her to remain carfree the rest of her life for financial reasons alone. I guess you never know.
While I actually did not own a car for many years prior to this, I drove borrowed and rented motor vehicles-light weight manual transmission trucks, passenger cars, limited time on motorcycles, and even mopeds-since I was 16 years old (this is CA after all). I got my first driver's license when I was 20 for mainly employment reasons. I did stop riding bicycles as a young adult when I graduated from college because of master teacher pressure . As soon as I escaped that need-to-keep-up-professional-appearances game, I immediately bought some second hand bikes and happily went about my business. I look forward to the day I may return like before.

Originally Posted by Dahon.Steve View Post
What people don't understand is that it's much harder for women to be bike dependant and carfree in this country. Most will take the bus or spend their last dime on motor transport before they use a bicycle for trasportation. I give FF alot of credit for keeping the struggle for so many years.
I agree, especially when I was a much younger woman. Thank you so much!
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Old 07-21-13, 03:00 PM
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I don't blame the OP for taking a break. Getting mugged on a bike has always been a huge concern for me. Over the past 40 years of urban cycling, 25 of which are car free, I have taken evasive action a number of times successfully. I could go long stretches without any trouble, then experience two in one evening.

In the past few years some things have changed and gentrification of some popular (and previously sketchy) routes has taken place. Still not impossible to get mugged, I had my last attempt this past winter. But things seem to be heading in the right direction slowly.

Hopefully the OPs situation, or environment, will experience a change for the better in the near future. I never thought it could happen in my city, but it is progressing. Why or how I continued through the danger I can not say. I would love to call it bravery but am more tempted to label my actions risky and stupid. I survived with extreme vigilance, paranoia, and cycling speed.
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Old 07-23-13, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by technoD View Post
Guns are a great offensive option for anyone with military combat training even when on a bicycle, and the proper mindset as a citizen too. A criminal in this case is likely to be news at 2300hours!
Maybe you, if you are a trained military type, but would you have advised Artkansas to draw a gun if 7 men with 2X4's forced him off the road and surrounded him? How many of them also had guns?
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Old 07-23-13, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike View Post
I don't blame the OP for taking a break. Getting mugged on a bike has always been a huge concern for me. Over the past 40 years of urban cycling, 25 of which are car free, I have taken evasive action a number of times successfully. I could go long stretches without any trouble, then experience two in one evening.

In the past few years some things have changed and gentrification of some popular (and previously sketchy) routes has taken place. Still not impossible to get mugged, I had my last attempt this past winter. But things seem to be heading in the right direction slowly.

Hopefully the OPs situation, or environment, will experience a change for the better in the near future. I never thought it could happen in my city, but it is progressing. Why or how I continued through the danger I can not say. I would love to call it bravery but am more tempted to label my actions risky and stupid. I survived with extreme vigilance, paranoia, and cycling speed.
My experience has been similar. I grew up in what was then the "Murder Capitol of the World" and I've always preferred to live in or near some high risk communities.

I am very happy that for totally unknown reasons, crime rates in almost every part of the world seem to be going down dramatically. Of course I'm not going to let my guard down too much!
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Old 07-24-13, 12:12 AM
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Originally Posted by cooker View Post
Maybe you, if you are a trained military type, but would you have advised Artkansas to draw a gun if 7 men with 2X4's forced him off the road and surrounded him? How many of them also had guns?
Cooker, Not having been in the ops shoes and what he might have faced I can't say with certainty what action I would have taken. I CAN tell you that without a doubt that there's no way I would have given in to a confrontation. YES I would however have drawn my weapon against 7 guys with clubs as I have 12 rounds and a extra mag but that would be overkill ( no pun intended).
I simply REFUSE to have any low life try to relieve me of property which I have worked long & hard for, without bleeding for it first...
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Old 07-26-13, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by WPeabody View Post
That is one reason why cars are far more popular than bicycles. Plus, they don't take much effort to get going, they protect you from weather and intruders, they can carry a lot of stuff and go long distances in a short time.
The first time my son asked me why I dislike cars, the simplest answer I could explain to him was that they're not bad when there's just a few but when there's so much car traffic, it creates a lot of noise, pollution, waste, etc. At the moment he asked, we happened to be waiting at the intersection of a bike road and a pretty busy thoroughfare, so I could illustrate my point by how long we were having to wait to cross because of all the traffic.

There's no question that driving is a temptation. It's just that when you think about falling deeper and deeper into a habit where you have to deal with traffic and parking issues and you aren't getting exercise when you're busy with other things, it's depressing to think about driving exclusively. Still, I have to admit that I've had moments where I got a sense that driving was really going to wane away and I thought it would be a sad thing if that would happen. The reality is, though, that driving is never going to go away and you're just lucky if you can manage a lifestyle where you can avoid being stuck in traffic for any amount more than you otherwise would.

Do you think many people realize how much of their life they spend in traffic on the inside of a vehicle?

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Old 07-27-13, 09:54 AM
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We are moving to a time where good people will wall and gate themselves away into communities, entire cities, into which outsiders are not allowed. Everything, including work will be inside the gate and unless the person entering has a clear criminal background record and has paid the "clearance" tax, (s)he will not get in. A sign on the road in, no hoodies, no saggin, no guns, no criminal background, no illegal status, no drug arrest record, nothing. LC
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Old 07-29-13, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Loose Chain View Post
We are moving to a time where good people will wall and gate themselves away into communities, entire cities, into which outsiders are not allowed. Everything, including work will be inside the gate and unless the person entering has a clear criminal background record and has paid the "clearance" tax, (s)he will not get in. A sign on the road in, no hoodies, no saggin, no guns, no criminal background, no illegal status, no drug arrest record, nothing. LC
Why do you have such a pessimistic outlook? Violent crime was down in the U.S. last year for the fifth straight year.

https://edition.cnn.com/2012/10/29/ju...-violent-crime
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Old 07-29-13, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Loose Chain View Post
We are moving to a time where good people will wall and gate themselves away into communities, entire cities, into which outsiders are not allowed. Everything, including work will be inside the gate and unless the person entering has a clear criminal background record and has paid the "clearance" tax, (s)he will not get in. A sign on the road in, no hoodies, no saggin, no guns, no criminal background, no illegal status, no drug arrest record, nothing. LC
I hope not. Certainly that is not the trend here. If you need a gated community to feel safe, it's a sign that your society is failing, and if you build more of them, you accelerate the alienation, tribablism and lack of opportunities for benign and tolerance-building interactions that happen in an open society.
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Old 07-29-13, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by technoD View Post
I simply REFUSE to have any low life try to relieve me of property which I have worked long & hard for, without bleeding for it first...
It would never occur to me to want to kill someone for trying to steal my bike. Obviously in an armed assault there is also the threat they will harm or kill you - that would be the only rationale for using potentially lethal force as I see it - not the easily replaceable and fairly inexpensive (compared to a life) bike.
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Old 08-02-13, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by cooker View Post
It would never occur to me to want to kill someone for trying to steal my bike. Obviously in an armed assault there is also the threat they will harm or kill you - that would be the only rationale for using potentially lethal force as I see it - not the easily replaceable and fairly inexpensive (compared to a life) bike.
I agree fully. That said, I am for stiffening the theft laws for bicycles. Some people count on them as their only mode of transportation, stealing a bicycle is not a victimless crime. Especially in a world wear people ride bicycles that cost upwards of 6,000 dollars, it is a real crime.

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Old 08-02-13, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Loose Chain View Post
I agree fully. That said, I am for stiffening the theft laws for bicycles. Some people count on them as their only mode of transportation, stealing a bicycle is not a victimless crime. Especially in a world wear people ride bicycles that cost upwards of 6,000 dollars, it is a real crime.

J
Not trying to make light of bike theft but I suggest you come up with a more coherent argument for stiffer penalties for the crime.
How likely is it that someone who counts on a bicycle as his/her only mode of transportation is riding a $6000 bike? Or even a $600 bike?

You might do better to argue that a $100 bike from Walmart represents probably more than a week's take home pay for minimum wage workers who may be dependent on a bicycle to get to and from work
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Old 08-02-13, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
Not trying to make light of bike theft but I suggest you come up with a more coherent argument for stiffer penalties for the crime.
How likely is it that someone who counts on a bicycle as his/her only mode of transportation is riding a $6000 bike? Or even a $600 bike?

You might do better to argue that a $100 bike from Walmart represents probably more than a week's take home pay for minimum wage workers who may be dependent on a bicycle to get to and from work
True. If you steal a car, it's a major felony even if the car is a beater and only worth $100. But if you steal a $100 bike, the charge will be a misdemeanor such as petty theft. I'm sure this is one reason that cops don't take bike theft seriously.
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Old 08-03-13, 12:12 AM
  #99  
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
Not trying to make light of bike theft but I suggest you come up with a more coherent argument for stiffer penalties for the crime.
How likely is it that someone who counts on a bicycle as his/her only mode of transportation is riding a $6000 bike? Or even a $600 bike?

You might do better to argue that a $100 bike from Walmart represents probably more than a week's take home pay for minimum wage workers who may be dependent on a bicycle to get to and from work

Look, I am not going to get into a "coherent" argument about the relative harm of theft that goes down some strange rabbit hole of relativism and anecdotalisms and arguing the definition of what is, is or means. Stealing is stealing and I did not say or mean to imply that people who count on their bicycles ride 6,000 dollars bicycles but why does it matter. If something belongs to me or you, it is not for somebody else to take. I am sick and tired of people making excuses for bad behavior.



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Old 08-03-13, 07:30 AM
  #100  
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Originally Posted by Loose Chain View Post
I did not say or mean to imply that people who count on their bicycles ride 6,000 dollars bicycles but why does it matter.
You are right, it doesn't matter, so why bring it up?
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