Notices
Long Distance Competition/Ultracycling, Randonneuring and Endurance Cycling Do you enjoy centuries, double centuries, brevets, randonnees, and 24-hour time trials? Share ride reports, and exchange training, equipment, and nutrition information specific to long distance cycling. This isn't for tours, this is for endurance events cycling

Any body going GPS Free?

Old 03-22-22, 01:24 PM
  #1  
Classtime 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Classtime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 3,709

Bikes: 82 Medici, 2011 Richard Sachs, 2011 Milwaukee Road

Mentioned: 42 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1447 Post(s)
Liked 1,030 Times in 628 Posts
Any body going GPS Free?

It wasn't long ago when folks couldn't depend on GPS due to accuracy/battery life. Now many folks charge as they go with back up batteries or dyno charging. I'm planning on doing my first complete series next spring and wonder if anybody does that these days without GPS.
__________________
I don't do: disks, tubeless, e-shifting, or bead head nymphs.
Classtime is offline  
Old 03-22-22, 01:49 PM
  #2  
prj71
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: North Central Wisconsin
Posts: 4,102
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2563 Post(s)
Liked 906 Times in 595 Posts
Cycling GPS units battery life is ~20 hours and you can't change batteries on them anymore. So back up batteries isn't an option and nobody really uses dyno charging for GPS units.

If for some reason you are riding beyond 20 hours then a portable charger or portable solar charger is all you need.
prj71 is offline  
Old 03-22-22, 01:59 PM
  #3  
GhostRider62
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 3,019
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1771 Post(s)
Liked 1,460 Times in 926 Posts
I used to get a 600k out of my 1030. I'd bring a lipstick battery for a longer one. I had never updated the firmware until buying a Garmin Radar taillight and it now seems my battery does not last nearly as long.

There are some riders who still navigate by cuesheet. I saw a couple on a 200k recently but they are in a minority.

I bring the cuesheet always as a backup and always use it at some point on a brevet.
GhostRider62 is offline  
Likes For GhostRider62:
Old 03-22-22, 02:22 PM
  #4  
pdlamb
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: northern Deep South
Posts: 7,919

Bikes: Fuji Touring, Novara Randonee

Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2094 Post(s)
Liked 1,340 Times in 849 Posts
Originally Posted by Classtime View Post
It wasn't long ago when folks couldn't depend on GPS due to accuracy/battery life. Now many folks charge as they go with back up batteries or dyno charging. I'm planning on doing my first complete series next spring and wonder if anybody does that these days without GPS.
Let us know how it goes!
pdlamb is offline  
Old 03-22-22, 05:35 PM
  #5  
Tourist in MSN
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 9,807

Bikes: 1961 Ideor, 1966 Perfekt 3 Speed AB Hub, 1994 Bridgestone MB-6, 2006 Airnimal Joey, 2009 Thorn Sherpa, 2013 Thorn Nomad MkII, 2015 VO Pass Hunter, 2017 Lynskey Backroad, 2017 Raleigh Gran Prix, 1980s Bianchi Mixte on a trainer. Others are now gone.

Mentioned: 43 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2871 Post(s)
Liked 1,013 Times in 816 Posts
A lot of the GPS units out there can be operated while they are plugged into an external battery pack.

I can't comment on cycling specific GPS units, i use a recreational grade GPS that uses AA batteries that I can also use for backpacking, canoeing, kayaking, etc. So, I won't elaborate more on GPS brands or models. I can charge my AA batteries with a pass through cache battery and dynohub, but that is off topic.

I would suggest you not get a dynohub and USB charger for the sole purpose of charging a GPS. You should be able to run a GPS for four consecutive days off of a good powerbank or maybe a couple of them, but how many watt hours of capacity that powerbank(s) would need would depend on which GPS and how much you used the backlighting. And I think you would want to bring spare capacity along too.

That said, if you want a dyno powered lighting system and you wanted to use excess power from that during daytime hours to recharge a power bank, that would be viable.

While rolling on an exercise ride, I usually average about 2.5 watts of power out of my Sinewave Revolution USB charger that draws power from an SP PV8 dynohub. That is while rolling and that is on flat ground. If I am stopped, nothing comes out of the dynohub. If I am going slow up hills and fast downhills, that average will be less power, could be less than 2 watts. That is with lights off.

But, if I have my lights turned on (B&M IQ-XS and Spanninga Pixeo), on flat ground on an exercise ride, I only measured 0.6 watts out of the USB charger. In other words, assume you get nothing for power out of a USB charger powered by dynohub when your lights are on, you can get something but it is minimal. So, if you wanted to charge up batteries during daytime, turn your lights off.

I described my dyno powered lighting system on my rando bike in another thread if you are curious, that is at:
https://www.bikeforums.net/electroni...b-charger.html

My expedition touring bike, I only use the dynohub for battery charging, I do not even use dyno powered lights on that bike when on a bike tour. I have been self sufficient when camping for weeks with a dynohub for all of my power needs with that bike, but that was daytime riding and only battery powered flashers for taillights.

To reiterate, for up to four days of riding, I think batteries are a better way to charge a GPS than a dynohub if the sole reason for considering a dynohub was for GPS operation. If you also wanted dyno powered lighting, then it might be something to consider.
Tourist in MSN is offline  
Old 03-22-22, 05:50 PM
  #6  
clasher
Senior Member
 
clasher's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Kitchener, ON
Posts: 2,698
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 216 Post(s)
Liked 117 Times in 86 Posts
When I started doing brevets back in 2015 I didn't have a GPS, but I ended up missing a turn on my first 300 and that turned into a 320km ride... then I DNF'd my first 400 when I did an extra 30km at the 300km point when I missed a turn... more of a broken spirit at that point than anything else. Silly mistakes but any decent GPS would have alerted me when I was off-course and I could have figured it out. I'd even have been okay running rwgps on a phone, it'd likely have off-course alerts. I download the route to rwgps app on my phone so I have an electronic backup as well a cuesheet tucked away too.
clasher is offline  
Likes For clasher:
Old 03-22-22, 09:35 PM
  #7  
unterhausen
Randomhead
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Posts: 22,971
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 2,544 Times in 1,785 Posts
I would get a gps. I have seen too many cue sheets with errors to totally rely on them. And at night, it's just too stressful to try to follow a cue sheet with no backup.

It really depends on the promoter and how well they do quality control on the cue sheet. If there was no pre-ride or it was done by people who used a gps, give in and get a gps. I have also seen major problems with cue sheets if the person that did the pre-ride knew the course too well and didn't have to use the cue sheet. I like to follow a cue sheet and if a promoter releases one soon enough then I will use street view to do quality control on it.

My 830 will run for something like 48 hours on battery saver mode. Particularly if I don't display the map. I generally just use an external battery and display the map though.
unterhausen is offline  
Likes For unterhausen:
Old 03-23-22, 06:57 AM
  #8  
GhostRider62
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 3,019
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1771 Post(s)
Liked 1,460 Times in 926 Posts
Another potential cuesheet issue is if your lights are aimed low, you can't see the street sign name if it is up high on a pole. The GPS popup is just so incredible at night. I change the warning from 100m to 150 meters. I also put a field, "Distance to Next" on my standard screen. If I am going along, I can just look down and see how far to the next turn. This does not always work but I would say that one field has saved me more bonus miles than anything. OTOH, GPS can get confused and the cuesheet is my tiebreaker.
GhostRider62 is offline  
Likes For GhostRider62:
Old 03-23-22, 07:08 AM
  #9  
antimonysarah
Senior Member
 
antimonysarah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Medford, MA
Posts: 639

Bikes: Nishiki Bel-Air, Brompton P6L, Seven Resolute SLX, Co-motion Divide, Xtracycle RFA

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 74 Post(s)
Liked 52 Times in 27 Posts
Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
I would get a gps. I have seen too many cue sheets with errors to totally rely on them. And at night, it's just too stressful to try to follow a cue sheet with no backup.

It really depends on the promoter and how well they do quality control on the cue sheet. If there was no pre-ride or it was done by people who used a gps, give in and get a gps. I have also seen major problems with cue sheets if the person that did the pre-ride knew the course too well and didn't have to use the cue sheet. I like to follow a cue sheet and if a promoter releases one soon enough then I will use street view to do quality control on it.

My 830 will run for something like 48 hours on battery saver mode. Particularly if I don't display the map. I generally just use an external battery and display the map though.
Also, even if we're very careful about reviewing our cue sheets, as GPS has become nigh-universal, route design (at least in areas like New England where there are a lot of roads and nothing remotely resembling a grid system) is favoring the best roads rather than the simplest navigation. (I still try to make things not hideous, and doable via cue sheet, but there's choices I'd make differently if I was expecting the majority of riders to be running via cue sheet only.)
antimonysarah is offline  
Old 03-23-22, 10:44 AM
  #10  
Classtime 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Classtime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 3,709

Bikes: 82 Medici, 2011 Richard Sachs, 2011 Milwaukee Road

Mentioned: 42 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1447 Post(s)
Liked 1,030 Times in 628 Posts
If route designers assume that riders will have GPS, and design accordingly, it is wise to have GPS. I was trying to keep it simple by avoiding unnecessary technology but my plan now is to research and acquire a GPS before next spring.
__________________
I don't do: disks, tubeless, e-shifting, or bead head nymphs.
Classtime is offline  
Old 03-23-22, 11:39 AM
  #11  
unterhausen
Randomhead
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Posts: 22,971
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 2,544 Times in 1,785 Posts
Originally Posted by antimonysarah View Post
Also, even if we're very careful about reviewing our cue sheets, as GPS has become nigh-universal, route design (at least in areas like New England where there are a lot of roads and nothing remotely resembling a grid system) is favoring the best roads rather than the simplest navigation.
I like to encourage such route design choices. I can't remember how many roads I have been on that I would never ride on my own volition, but that's the way the ride goes. Usually because of proof of passage issues. I have heard people (not regular randonneurs, just enough randonnees to get into PBP) complain that Eastern PA routes are too complex and they should just take big roads. Their solution was to go to Ohio.

Originally Posted by GhostRider62 View Post
I also put a field, "Distance to Next" on my standard screen. If I am going along, I can just look down and see how far to the next turn. This does not always work but I would say that one field has saved me more bonus miles than anything.
That's a good idea. I just downloaded a garmin plugin that allows you to put more data on the map, I'll have to add this.
unterhausen is offline  
Old 03-23-22, 12:29 PM
  #12  
GhostRider62
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 3,019
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1771 Post(s)
Liked 1,460 Times in 926 Posts
Originally Posted by Classtime View Post
If route designers assume that riders will have GPS, and design accordingly, it is wise to have GPS. I was trying to keep it simple by avoiding unnecessary technology but my plan now is to research and acquire a GPS before next spring.
Garmin vs Wahoo is like tubeless vs clincher or wax vs oiled chains.

I gave it a lot of thought once. My old 810 Garmin used to crash but the new 1030 has been perfect. I almost went Wahoo.

Garmins cost more, have more navigation features, and have way more memory for an onboard map whereas the Wahoo relies more on you having a cell phone with you, but it is cheaper and also has good navigation. Garmin takes some effort to learn whereas the Wahoo is more straightforward. Garmin has a little longer battery life. You see both on brevets and I doubt one is much better than others. For me, it came down to screen resolution and the ability to have a map loaded on the device rather than having to perhaps rely upon a cell connection.

There are quite a few youtube video comparisons out there, your preference might be Wahoo. The only thing I dislike about my Garmin is size, it doesn't matter with randonneuring but if I am doing a time trial, it is a brick
GhostRider62 is offline  
Likes For GhostRider62:
Old 03-23-22, 08:01 PM
  #13  
Carbonfiberboy 
just another gosling
 
Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Everett, WA
Posts: 18,670

Bikes: CoMo Speedster 2003, Trek 5200, CAAD 9, Fred 2004

Mentioned: 113 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3482 Post(s)
Liked 1,476 Times in 1,071 Posts
I still print my own cuesheets and bring them along. Though I normally use my Garmin, things can go wrong, that's all. I also use the "Distance to Next" field, very important. I've seen instances where the designer didn't post a digital file and I had to draw and check the route in RWGPS for myself so I could use my Garmin. I used to also run a old-fashioned Cateye device, also a just-in-case, but the Garmin has been so reliable that I've given that up.
__________________
Results matter
Carbonfiberboy is offline  
Old 03-23-22, 08:29 PM
  #14  
downtube42
Senior Member
 
downtube42's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 3,356

Bikes: Soma Fog Cutter, Volae Team, Focus Mares AL, Nimbus MUni, Trek Roscoe 6, 1987 Centurion SS/FG.

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 681 Post(s)
Liked 1,537 Times in 790 Posts
Originally Posted by Classtime View Post
It wasn't long ago when folks couldn't depend on GPS due to accuracy/battery life. Now many folks charge as they go with back up batteries or dyno charging. I'm planning on doing my first complete series next spring and wonder if anybody does that these days without GPS.
Yes, there are people who do rando without gps. I rode with a guy in Kentucky who didn't even have a cyclocomputer - he rode brevets in Kentucky and Ohio. He was just good at dead reckoning. I wholly converted to gps a few years back after many SR series and two PBPs; cue sheets require more thinking on the bike, and more paying attention to where you are. Not necessarily bad things, really. I think you're likely to get confused from time to time with cue sheets; if you're good dealing with confusion then that will be okay. Roads that don't have signs lead to unease. Two on a row are stressful.

Rando is supposed to be an audacious adventure, right?
downtube42 is offline  
Old 03-23-22, 08:46 PM
  #15  
Tourist in MSN
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 9,807

Bikes: 1961 Ideor, 1966 Perfekt 3 Speed AB Hub, 1994 Bridgestone MB-6, 2006 Airnimal Joey, 2009 Thorn Sherpa, 2013 Thorn Nomad MkII, 2015 VO Pass Hunter, 2017 Lynskey Backroad, 2017 Raleigh Gran Prix, 1980s Bianchi Mixte on a trainer. Others are now gone.

Mentioned: 43 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2871 Post(s)
Liked 1,013 Times in 816 Posts
I was maybe a half mile after a control, ran across someone that was totally lost that was using a cue sheet. I backtracked with him to the control so that he would know exactly where he was to reset his bearings and start fresh knowing where on the cue sheet he was at.

I have never tried cue sheets, but I am a geological engineer (retired) and worked with maps every day of my professional career. I bought my first of many GPS units over two decades ago. My brain is not wired right to do cue sheets. I want to see a map, and better yet if the electronics can say exactly where I am on that map.
Tourist in MSN is offline  
Old 03-23-22, 08:53 PM
  #16  
unterhausen
Randomhead
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Posts: 22,971
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 2,544 Times in 1,785 Posts
Originally Posted by downtube42 View Post
I think you're likely to get confused from time to time with cue sheets; if you're good dealing with confusion then that will be okay. Roads that don't have signs lead to unease. Two on a row are stressful.
I'm pretty good with dead reckoning, but if there is a 10 mile stretch I used to get really anxious. I didn't use a computer, I found that to make me nervous because it never matched up to the cue sheet. I think the worst is a long stretch at night. I recall one long stretch of about 15 miles with a defective cue that was followed by a very long, steep climb. The other problem with cue sheets is you might be riding on a road that changes names ever few miles. Lots of people mess this one up when the do cue sheets. Each road name should be on the cue sheet. A gps totally gets rid of this problem.
It certainly adds to the adventure.

There are some places where making a cue sheet where it engenders confidence in a very tired rider is nearly impossible. In pennsylvania, the farm roads are on a grid, but the grid usually isn't complete. So you might go a short distance, turn 90 degrees, and so on. The road names change with each turn. There was one stretch on my fleche route where there were many such turns in a row. I borrowed this section of the route from Endless mountains 1200k, and I was very confused after all the turns when I rode that. And then when you're really feeling lost, there is a long downhill. Nobody wants to climb back up if it's not the right way. It happens that at the top of the hill there is a road off to the left that you don't go on. No reason to have it on the cue sheet, right? Except the next turn on the route is a left. So on EM, I stopped to make sure I didn't want to go that way, and then a couple of years later on the fleche we had a big argument about not going that way. Apparently having ridden it 3 times wasn't enough to convince some people on the team. So finally I just started riding the right way. Absent a map, you aren't going to be able to cue sheet yourself out of that level of confusion.

Last edited by unterhausen; 03-23-22 at 09:04 PM.
unterhausen is offline  
Old 03-23-22, 09:21 PM
  #17  
downtube42
Senior Member
 
downtube42's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 3,356

Bikes: Soma Fog Cutter, Volae Team, Focus Mares AL, Nimbus MUni, Trek Roscoe 6, 1987 Centurion SS/FG.

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 681 Post(s)
Liked 1,537 Times in 790 Posts
Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
I'm pretty good with dead reckoning, but if there is a 10 mile stretch I used to get really anxious. I didn't use a computer, I found that to make me nervous because it never matched up to the cue sheet. I think the worst is a long stretch at night. I recall one long stretch of about 15 miles with a defective cue that was followed by a very long, steep climb. The other problem with cue sheets is you might be riding on a road that changes names ever few miles. Lots of people mess this one up when the do cue sheets. Each road name should be on the cue sheet. A gps totally gets rid of this problem.
It certainly adds to the adventure.

There are some places where making a cue sheet where it engenders confidence in a very tired rider is nearly impossible. In pennsylvania, the farm roads are on a grid, but the grid usually isn't complete. So you might go a short distance, turn 90 degrees, and so on. The road names change with each turn. There was one stretch on my fleche route where there were many such turns in a row. I borrowed this section of the route from Endless mountains 1200k, and I was very confused after all the turns when I rode that. And then when you're really feeling lost, there is a long downhill. Nobody wants to climb back up if it's not the right way. It happens that at the top of the hill there is a road off to the left that you don't go on. No reason to have it on the cue sheet, right? Except the next turn on the route is a left. So on EM, I stopped to make sure I didn't want to go that way, and then a couple of years later on the fleche we had a big argument about not going that way. Apparently having ridden it 3 times wasn't enough to convince some people on the team. So finally I just started riding the right way. Absent a map, you aren't going to be able to cue sheet yourself out of that level of confusion.
To some degree, your describing decades of cue sheet era randonneuring, right? Navigation was an active part of the experience, as was figuring yourself out of confusion. It's do-able, and no doubt some people still do.

Like most people who rode in that era, i have my stories. Some whoppers. I don't miss the confusion or bonus miles, but i do miss being more aware of where i am.
downtube42 is offline  
Old 03-24-22, 06:30 AM
  #18  
Steamer
Zircon Encrusted Tweezers
 
Steamer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: high ground
Posts: 1,286
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 232 Post(s)
Liked 94 Times in 62 Posts
Following the cue sheet (even when you have a reliable GPS on hand) can alleviate boredom, which is a problem for me when randonneuring.
Steamer is offline  
Old 03-24-22, 06:48 AM
  #19  
unterhausen
Randomhead
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Posts: 22,971
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 2,544 Times in 1,785 Posts
Originally Posted by downtube42 View Post
To some degree, your describing decades of cue sheet era randonneuring, right? Navigation was an active part of the experience, as was figuring yourself out of confusion. It's do-able, and no doubt some people still do.
My story was from not that many years ago. You too can re-live those bygone days by forgoing your gps. If you get lost with a cue sheet, it can be awful to get back on route. I recommend off-line google maps as a backup.

OTOH, I did dnf a 200k a couple of years ago because the 830 gps doesn't have a loud warning about being off route, it was windy, and my hearing isn't the best. The off-route warning doesn't stay on the screen long either. I got confused because the road I was looking for showed up in multiple places. Nice road, I just took the wrong branch. Turns out that rwgps isn't great at getting you back on track either.
unterhausen is offline  
Likes For unterhausen:
Old 03-24-22, 07:12 AM
  #20  
GhostRider62
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 3,019
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1771 Post(s)
Liked 1,460 Times in 926 Posts
Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
My story was from not that many years ago. You too can re-live those bygone days by forgoing your gps. If you get lost with a cue sheet, it can be awful to get back on route. I recommend off-line google maps as a backup.

OTOH, I did dnf a 200k a couple of years ago because the 830 gps doesn't have a loud warning about being off route, it was windy, and my hearing isn't the best. The off-route warning doesn't stay on the screen long either. I got confused because the road I was looking for showed up in multiple places. Nice road, I just took the wrong branch. Turns out that rwgps isn't great at getting you back on track either.
I think the red warning flag on the 1030 stays on quite a long time...??? Better than the 810 but not sure how long it stays up

That little beep and short warning is one reason I ditched the 810. I knew I had to make a left on a 300K down in Florida but then this pit bull meaning serious business comes after me and recumbents don't like to sprint. I got it up to speed and just barely stayed ahead of the dog. The speed was so nice, I forgot about the left turn.....for like 5 miles. Then, I had 5 miles to worry about making a right hander onto a sharp acute angle (50 degrees on a 55 inch wheelbase)with an aggressive dog across the road and of course, teeth are about facial cheek level on my recumbent.
GhostRider62 is offline  
Old 03-24-22, 07:54 AM
  #21  
unterhausen
Randomhead
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Posts: 22,971
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 2,544 Times in 1,785 Posts
Originally Posted by GhostRider62 View Post
I think the red warning flag on the 1030 stays on quite a long time...??? Better than the 810 but not sure how long it stays up
I might have to switch. At least on the 800, the warning stayed up until you were back on course. Granted, that could sometimes be annoying if you were off course on purpose. I wonder if there is a way to write a plugin that will make the flag persist longer. At one point they decided to lower the volume level, and it's hard-coded. Which just seems pointless on such a powerful device. The other thing they do wrong is the turn warning has less precedence than the hill climb graphic, so it's easy to miss a turn if it's on a big descent followed by a hill because the turn display doesn't last long. And inevitably it pops up when going 40mph and I'm getting passed by a car so I don't want to look. I like the hill climb display, but if it's between that and not getting lost, I'll go with not getting lost.

I think you were on the NJ 600k that went to the beach in 2019. There was a section after one of the early controls that had a big tailwind. There was also some kind of large organized ride on that section. I hadn't gotten my garmin 800 started up right and missed a turn, and I was enjoying the large shoulder and tailwind. Which later turned into a huge headwind when I realized my mistake. I did something like 8 bonus miles, so 4 of them with a huge headwind. Fortunately the other side of the road also had a nice shoulder.

Last edited by unterhausen; 03-24-22 at 08:01 AM.
unterhausen is offline  
Old 03-24-22, 10:11 AM
  #22  
njkayaker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 13,536
Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3717 Post(s)
Liked 1,021 Times in 715 Posts
Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
Originally Posted by GhostRider62 View Post
I think the red warning flag on the 1030 stays on quite a long time...??? Better than the 810 but not sure how long it stays up
I might have to switch. At least on the 800, the warning stayed up until you were back on course. Granted, that could sometimes be annoying if you were off course on purpose.
The warning isn't red. The 1030+ generally tries to give you rerouting options (which makes it clear you are off course). The 1030 does something similar (but not quite as well). I would think the 830 does the same thing as the 1030+. (The firmware of the 1030+ and the 830 are very similar). The problem I have is that the devices don't figure out that you are back on courses as quickly as they should (I think they used to be faster).

Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
II wonder if there is a way to write a plugin that will make the flag persist longer.
No. Garmin doesn't provide the hooks for that.

Last edited by njkayaker; 03-24-22 at 11:34 AM.
njkayaker is offline  
Old 03-24-22, 10:21 AM
  #23  
njkayaker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 13,536
Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3717 Post(s)
Liked 1,021 Times in 715 Posts
Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
OTOH, I did dnf a 200k a couple of years ago because the 830 gps doesn't have a loud warning about being off route, it was windy, and my hearing isn't the best. The off-route warning doesn't stay on the screen long either. I got confused because the road I was looking for showed up in multiple places. Nice road, I just took the wrong branch. Turns out that rwgps isn't great at getting you back on track either.
The best way to use these for navigation is to look at the map regularly (as part of your normal process of scanning).

You'll often know about upcoming turns well before the notification and, if you miss a turn, you'll generally see you are no longer following the track. It's fairly common to miss the turn notifications and, sometimes, some turns won't even have an associated notification. Paying attention to the map is the only way to handle this.

Another thing to try to do is look at the map after turns to verify that you are still following the track. If the device is set-up properly and you are paying attention, you shouldn't get that far off-course before knowing about it. Of course, scanning the map is harder to do at night.

The Garmins have an option to use your phone to announce turns. This requires Garmin Connect Mobile to be running on the phone. It will consume more of the phone battery but, maybe, not that much. This might be something one could use at night (when the Garmin is harder to look at).

Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
If you get lost with a cue sheet, it can be awful to get back on route.
Cuesheets are objectively bad for navigation. The advantage they have is that they are very cheap and don't require power. (It's fine if people want to use them.)

It's not easy to keep of the "active" line of the cuesheet and you have to (often) keep track of your distance (typically using a computer anyway). And you have to look for street signs (which might not match, be in a standard location, or even exist). Outside of at turns, you have no confirmation that you are on the track.

As long as it's basically working and you are paying attention to it, you can't really get "lost" with a GPS since you can see where you are relative to the track you are supposed to be on.

The GPS puts all the stuff you need to know for navigation in one small place that works the same for every ride and it provides continual confirmation that you are on track (you just have to look at it).

With cuesheets, you basically have one chance to make the turn. With a GPS, you have at least four: before (observation), at (observation and notification), after (observation), and off-course warning (notification)..

If one gets confused by the GPS, one trick is to slow down.

The principle downside of GPS units is that they require power. (They are also kind-of expensive.)

Last edited by njkayaker; 03-24-22 at 12:18 PM.
njkayaker is offline  
Old 03-24-22, 10:42 AM
  #24  
GhostRider62
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 3,019
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1771 Post(s)
Liked 1,460 Times in 926 Posts
Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
The warning isn't red. The 1030+ generally tries to give you rerouting options (which makes it clear you are off course). The 1030 does something similar (but not quite as well). I would think the 830 does the same thing. (The firmware of the 1030+ and the 830 are very similar). The problem I have is that the devices don't figure out that you are back on courses as quickly as they should (I think they used to be faster).


No. Garmin doesn't provide the hooks for that.
I just have the regular 1030, not the plus. I do know for sure the "warning" banner was along the bottom of the screen and it was red. At least on the original firmware that came with the device purchased very early in 2019. I never upgrade FW on a working device; however, I bought a Varia 515 and it required FW update. It is possible the off course warning is now different. I have only done two brevets since upgrading and cannot recall going off course. I have disabled rerouting because as a randonneur, you have to take the prescribed route.

The climb screen popup is very, very annoying. I don't want it at all. This seems to only have showed up since my FW upgrade. I don't know. Is there a way to exterminate it? I already have the relevant information on my screen, % incline and power. All these new screens probably explain less battery life. Any tips getting rid of the climbing stuff, cuesheet, and other garbage when I load a file on a ride? Is this the file or the device? Sorry for the dumb question, I have no idea.
GhostRider62 is offline  
Old 03-24-22, 10:49 AM
  #25  
njkayaker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 13,536
Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3717 Post(s)
Liked 1,021 Times in 715 Posts
Originally Posted by GhostRider62 View Post
I do know for sure the "warning" banner was along the bottom of the screen and it was red.
I think that's some form of the "sharp turns" warning. I get that very infrequently. I go off course much more regularly and don't see the red banner.

Originally Posted by GhostRider62 View Post
The climb screen popup is very, very annoying. I don't want it at all.
Settings (hamburger menu: the three horizontal lines) -> Profile -> Road (whatever you use) -> Climbpro -> Off

(This is from a 1030+. The 1030 should be the same.)

Originally Posted by GhostRider62 View Post
I already have the relevant information on my screen, % incline and power.
I use the following custom datafield to get 4 items on the map screen (there are three versions of this datafield).
https://apps.garmin.com/en-US/apps/8...f-9f10113b5276

Originally Posted by GhostRider62 View Post
All these new screens probably explain less battery life.
Probably, not by much (especially, if they aren't being displayed). Updating the map takes a fair amount of CPU time but the map isn't updated if it's not being displayed (I typically have the map displayed). Garmin knows battery life is an important feature.

Originally Posted by GhostRider62 View Post
cuesheet, ...
By "cuesheet", I suppose you mean the "course points". Disable those with Settings -> Course Points -> Off (after selecting the course; the settings item might be off the bottom).

You won't get course points if you use GPX format files (course points are only present in FIT and TCX files).

Originally Posted by GhostRider62 View Post
...and other garbage when I load a file on a ride?
Might need more detail.

Last edited by njkayaker; 03-24-22 at 11:06 AM.
njkayaker is offline  
Likes For njkayaker:

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2022 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.