Another Ti Question Thread
12-24-21, 06:12 PM
#1
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Thread Starter
Another Ti Question Thread
TL;DR: Any feedback for titanium ride when compared to their steel/aluminum/carbon equivalent?
Over the years, I've tried aluminum, carbon, and steel, but haven't had the chance to ride Ti before. Nor do I see an opportunity to test ride one anytime soon. Nobody I know owns one and the bike shops near me don't carry any.
The engineer in me tells me that any material can ride similarly, depending on the frame weight, tubing diameter, tire size, tire pressure, and other components on the bike.
However, my real life experiences in test rides and friends' bikes differ a bit. I'm sure it's confirmation bias, but most aluminum bikes were stiff and had a harsher road buzz, carbon bikes were very stiff, but it deadened the road buzz a lot, and steel bikes have been at either extremes of stiffness, and generally less buzzy than aluminum, but buzzier than carbon.
I'm sure the ride characteristics of each frame material is largely based on consumer demand: people want carbon bikes to be stiff at the BB, steel bikes to be compliant, aluminum to feel somewhere in between, and Titanium to feel a certain way.
Ride feel, to me, is largely about the road buzz and the way the vibration from the road gets transmitted to the rider. Most of my test rides were on road bikes with 700x25mm road tires, on 54cm-ish frames. Most with aluminum seat post and aluminum stem/bars.
The things I've read online about Titanium bikes are the cliché (which is the same case with Steel, Aluminum, and Carbon):
Would somebody who has ridden Ti bikes be able to comment in more specific detail?
The best type of input would be comparison between equivalent bikes: production titanium endurance road bike vs production steel/alu/carbon endurance road bike with same or similar components, similar fit, geometry, etc.
______________________________________________
Unrelated to my question above:
What I'm considering is a bike between my Ritchey Road Logic and my Breadwinner B-Road. I do my "fast" rides on my Ritchey Logic Disc with 28mm tires, longer/relaxed road rides with the Breadwinner(endurance geo w/ 38mm tires), and short rides with family/friends on the VO Neutrino(Mini Velo w/ swept back bars).
I have toe overlap with 700x38mm on the Breadwinner and I want to run 42mm semi knobby tires without worrying about toe overlap. I've never fallen from toe overlap, but I do have some annoyances at stop lights with my Soma Smoothie's toe overlap at times. I'm aware that toe overlap is a problem that I can avoid with riding technique, but after riding my Neutrino for the last year, I realized that I love not having any toe overlap to worry about in the first place.
I'm 5'9", 158lbs give or take 5 lbs depending on the time of the year. I don't put out much power, don't race, ride 99% on semi-crappy roads, mostly ride alone at the pace I want to go at. Sometimes, that's 12mph average, other times, that's 18mph average.
The bikes I've tried over the years:
- Aluminum
I don't plan on getting this bike anytime soon, just wondering what other people here think. Probably sometime around 2023 or 2024.
Also, paying my bike pic taxes...
Happy Holidays!
Over the years, I've tried aluminum, carbon, and steel, but haven't had the chance to ride Ti before. Nor do I see an opportunity to test ride one anytime soon. Nobody I know owns one and the bike shops near me don't carry any.
The engineer in me tells me that any material can ride similarly, depending on the frame weight, tubing diameter, tire size, tire pressure, and other components on the bike.
However, my real life experiences in test rides and friends' bikes differ a bit. I'm sure it's confirmation bias, but most aluminum bikes were stiff and had a harsher road buzz, carbon bikes were very stiff, but it deadened the road buzz a lot, and steel bikes have been at either extremes of stiffness, and generally less buzzy than aluminum, but buzzier than carbon.
I'm sure the ride characteristics of each frame material is largely based on consumer demand: people want carbon bikes to be stiff at the BB, steel bikes to be compliant, aluminum to feel somewhere in between, and Titanium to feel a certain way.
Ride feel, to me, is largely about the road buzz and the way the vibration from the road gets transmitted to the rider. Most of my test rides were on road bikes with 700x25mm road tires, on 54cm-ish frames. Most with aluminum seat post and aluminum stem/bars.
The things I've read online about Titanium bikes are the cliché (which is the same case with Steel, Aluminum, and Carbon):
- Titanium has a magic carpet ride
- Titanium is a "forever" bike
- Nothing rides like Titanium
On the other hand, I've also read:- Titanium is a "forever" bike
- Nothing rides like Titanium
- Titanium can have largely the same ride quality as steel, just lighter by 300-400grams or so for a production bike
- Titanium isn't forever, because of potential welding issues, and is harder and pricier to repair when/if it breaks
- The only reason to get titanium is for corrosion resistance and looks
I'm leaning towards the arguments against ti, but I do like the idea of corrosion resistance and not worrying about paint chips or scratches.- Titanium isn't forever, because of potential welding issues, and is harder and pricier to repair when/if it breaks
- The only reason to get titanium is for corrosion resistance and looks
Would somebody who has ridden Ti bikes be able to comment in more specific detail?
The best type of input would be comparison between equivalent bikes: production titanium endurance road bike vs production steel/alu/carbon endurance road bike with same or similar components, similar fit, geometry, etc.
______________________________________________
Unrelated to my question above:
What I'm considering is a bike between my Ritchey Road Logic and my Breadwinner B-Road. I do my "fast" rides on my Ritchey Logic Disc with 28mm tires, longer/relaxed road rides with the Breadwinner(endurance geo w/ 38mm tires), and short rides with family/friends on the VO Neutrino(Mini Velo w/ swept back bars).
I have toe overlap with 700x38mm on the Breadwinner and I want to run 42mm semi knobby tires without worrying about toe overlap. I've never fallen from toe overlap, but I do have some annoyances at stop lights with my Soma Smoothie's toe overlap at times. I'm aware that toe overlap is a problem that I can avoid with riding technique, but after riding my Neutrino for the last year, I realized that I love not having any toe overlap to worry about in the first place.
I'm 5'9", 158lbs give or take 5 lbs depending on the time of the year. I don't put out much power, don't race, ride 99% on semi-crappy roads, mostly ride alone at the pace I want to go at. Sometimes, that's 12mph average, other times, that's 18mph average.
The bikes I've tried over the years:
- Aluminum
- Cannondale CAAD12 - Very stiff, the least buzzy aluminum frame I've tried
- Giant Defy AL - Stiff, fairly buzzy, quintessential aluminum frame, in my experience
- Jamis Ventura - Stiff, very buzzy
- Specialized Allez - Very Stiff, buzzy
- Carbon- Giant Defy AL - Stiff, fairly buzzy, quintessential aluminum frame, in my experience
- Jamis Ventura - Stiff, very buzzy
- Specialized Allez - Very Stiff, buzzy
- Felt Z85 - Very Stiff, nice and quiet ride
- Felt Z5 - Very Stiff, nice and quiet ride
- Scott Addict - Very Stiff, a bit more road buzz than other carbon bikes
- A bunch I'm not remembering. Sprinkle of Trek, Specialized, Jamis, and others...
- Steel- Felt Z5 - Very Stiff, nice and quiet ride
- Scott Addict - Very Stiff, a bit more road buzz than other carbon bikes
- A bunch I'm not remembering. Sprinkle of Trek, Specialized, Jamis, and others...
- Ritchey Road Logic - Stiff, 2nd quietest of all the steel bikes I've tried
- Breadwinner B Road - A bit too stiff for me, a bit buzzier than the Ritchey
- Jamis Satellite Comp - Not stiff at all, quietest of all steel bikes I've tried
- Mercier Kilo WT - Stiff, buzziest of most steel bikes I've tried
- Various Surly bikes - Stiff & Buzzy
- Soma Smoothie - Stiff enough, very smooth
- Magnesium- Breadwinner B Road - A bit too stiff for me, a bit buzzier than the Ritchey
- Jamis Satellite Comp - Not stiff at all, quietest of all steel bikes I've tried
- Mercier Kilo WT - Stiff, buzziest of most steel bikes I've tried
- Various Surly bikes - Stiff & Buzzy
- Soma Smoothie - Stiff enough, very smooth
- VAAST A/1 in 700c - Stiff & Light! about as quiet as carbon. I'd buy one of these if I didn't have to worry about paint chips.
Below is the Geo I'm thinking of:I don't plan on getting this bike anytime soon, just wondering what other people here think. Probably sometime around 2023 or 2024.
Also, paying my bike pic taxes...
Happy Holidays!
12-24-21, 07:50 PM
#2
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The ti frame you have shown the blueprint for reminds me of the Wittson Illuminati disc frame:
12-24-21, 08:11 PM
#3
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Thread Starter
Would you happen to have any experience with it?
https://wittson.com/handmade-titaniu...set-illuminati
12-24-21, 08:36 PM
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Wittson Illuminati seems like a disc road race bike with 73°ish headtube angle and clearance for 700x28mm. It doesn't list front center, fork length, nor rake, so I can't figure out the front center, but likely not what I'm looking for since the tag line is: "Stiffest road race disc frame ever built ... If you're searching for a racing disc machine and rigidity is top of your list, this is your choice".
Would you happen to have any experience with it?
https://wittson.com/handmade-titaniu...set-illuminati
Would you happen to have any experience with it?
https://wittson.com/handmade-titaniu...set-illuminati
I do ride a rim brake ti bike though - a Veritas:
I could talk quite a bit about the ride of the Veritas and the compact frame which for me I call a super-compact.
12-24-21, 08:58 PM
#5
Junior Member
Thread Starter
- Do you have any experience with other compact frames of different materials? If so, how does the frame material compare?
- Were they of similar build(components, tires, bars, seatpost, etc.)
- Were they built for similar purposes?
- What's different about the titanium frame?
- More comfortable?
- Stiffer at the bottom bracket?
- Road vibrations?
- Stiffer at the bottom bracket?
- Road vibrations?
Likes For Steamer:
12-24-21, 11:01 PM
#7
Junior Member
Thread Starter
I absolutely agree; I'm bored, curious, and I have nothing else better to do. I know it doesn't really matter if titanium feels better than steel or carbon. I'm still going to ride bikes.
But isn't this kind of the whole point of forums though? Discussing somewhat useless topics with people who are as intensely absorbed in the same things as you are, because it's interesting? Otherwise, why are we here discussing things that don't really matter anyway?
But isn't this kind of the whole point of forums though? Discussing somewhat useless topics with people who are as intensely absorbed in the same things as you are, because it's interesting? Otherwise, why are we here discussing things that don't really matter anyway?
12-24-21, 11:52 PM
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I absolutely agree; I'm bored, curious, and I have nothing else better to do. I know it doesn't really matter if titanium feels better than steel or carbon. I'm still going to ride bikes.
But isn't this kind of the whole point of forums though? Discussing somewhat useless topics with people who are as intensely absorbed in the same things as you are, because it's interesting? Otherwise, why are we here discussing things that don't really matter anyway?
But isn't this kind of the whole point of forums though? Discussing somewhat useless topics with people who are as intensely absorbed in the same things as you are, because it's interesting? Otherwise, why are we here discussing things that don't really matter anyway?
12-25-21, 12:52 AM
#9
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TL;DR: Any feedback for titanium ride when compared to their steel/aluminum/carbon equivalent?
Over the years, I've tried aluminum, carbon, and steel, but haven't had the chance to ride Ti before. Nor do I see an opportunity to test ride one anytime soon. Nobody I know owns one and the bike shops near me don't carry any.
The engineer in me tells me that any material can ride similarly, depending on the frame weight, tubing diameter, tire size, tire pressure, and other components on the bike.
However, my real life experiences in test rides and friends' bikes differ a bit. I'm sure it's confirmation bias, but most aluminum bikes were stiff and had a harsher road buzz, carbon bikes were very stiff, but it deadened the road buzz a lot, and steel bikes have been at either extremes of stiffness, and generally less buzzy than aluminum, but buzzier than carbon.
I'm sure the ride characteristics of each frame material is largely based on consumer demand: people want carbon bikes to be stiff at the BB, steel bikes to be compliant, aluminum to feel somewhere in between, and Titanium to feel a certain way.
Ride feel, to me, is largely about the road buzz and the way the vibration from the road gets transmitted to the rider. Most of my test rides were on road bikes with 700x25mm road tires, on 54cm-ish frames. Most with aluminum seat post and aluminum stem/bars.
The things I've read online about Titanium bikes are the cliché (which is the same case with Steel, Aluminum, and Carbon):
Would somebody who has ridden Ti bikes be able to comment in more specific detail?
The best type of input would be comparison between equivalent bikes: production titanium endurance road bike vs production steel/alu/carbon endurance road bike with same or similar components, similar fit, geometry, etc.
______________________________________________
Unrelated to my question above:
What I'm considering is a bike between my Ritchey Road Logic and my Breadwinner B-Road. I do my "fast" rides on my Ritchey Logic Disc with 28mm tires, longer/relaxed road rides with the Breadwinner(endurance geo w/ 38mm tires), and short rides with family/friends on the VO Neutrino(Mini Velo w/ swept back bars).
I have toe overlap with 700x38mm on the Breadwinner and I want to run 42mm semi knobby tires without worrying about toe overlap. I've never fallen from toe overlap, but I do have some annoyances at stop lights with my Soma Smoothie's toe overlap at times. I'm aware that toe overlap is a problem that I can avoid with riding technique, but after riding my Neutrino for the last year, I realized that I love not having any toe overlap to worry about in the first place.
I'm 5'9", 158lbs give or take 5 lbs depending on the time of the year. I don't put out much power, don't race, ride 99% on semi-crappy roads, mostly ride alone at the pace I want to go at. Sometimes, that's 12mph average, other times, that's 18mph average.
The bikes I've tried over the years:
- Aluminum
I don't plan on getting this bike anytime soon, just wondering what other people here think. Probably sometime around 2023 or 2024.
Also, paying my bike pic taxes...
Happy Holidays!
Over the years, I've tried aluminum, carbon, and steel, but haven't had the chance to ride Ti before. Nor do I see an opportunity to test ride one anytime soon. Nobody I know owns one and the bike shops near me don't carry any.
The engineer in me tells me that any material can ride similarly, depending on the frame weight, tubing diameter, tire size, tire pressure, and other components on the bike.
However, my real life experiences in test rides and friends' bikes differ a bit. I'm sure it's confirmation bias, but most aluminum bikes were stiff and had a harsher road buzz, carbon bikes were very stiff, but it deadened the road buzz a lot, and steel bikes have been at either extremes of stiffness, and generally less buzzy than aluminum, but buzzier than carbon.
I'm sure the ride characteristics of each frame material is largely based on consumer demand: people want carbon bikes to be stiff at the BB, steel bikes to be compliant, aluminum to feel somewhere in between, and Titanium to feel a certain way.
Ride feel, to me, is largely about the road buzz and the way the vibration from the road gets transmitted to the rider. Most of my test rides were on road bikes with 700x25mm road tires, on 54cm-ish frames. Most with aluminum seat post and aluminum stem/bars.
The things I've read online about Titanium bikes are the cliché (which is the same case with Steel, Aluminum, and Carbon):
- Titanium has a magic carpet ride
- Titanium is a "forever" bike
- Nothing rides like Titanium
On the other hand, I've also read:- Titanium is a "forever" bike
- Nothing rides like Titanium
- Titanium can have largely the same ride quality as steel, just lighter by 300-400grams or so for a production bike
- Titanium isn't forever, because of potential welding issues, and is harder and pricier to repair when/if it breaks
- The only reason to get titanium is for corrosion resistance and looks
I'm leaning towards the arguments against ti, but I do like the idea of corrosion resistance and not worrying about paint chips or scratches.- Titanium isn't forever, because of potential welding issues, and is harder and pricier to repair when/if it breaks
- The only reason to get titanium is for corrosion resistance and looks
Would somebody who has ridden Ti bikes be able to comment in more specific detail?
The best type of input would be comparison between equivalent bikes: production titanium endurance road bike vs production steel/alu/carbon endurance road bike with same or similar components, similar fit, geometry, etc.
______________________________________________
Unrelated to my question above:
What I'm considering is a bike between my Ritchey Road Logic and my Breadwinner B-Road. I do my "fast" rides on my Ritchey Logic Disc with 28mm tires, longer/relaxed road rides with the Breadwinner(endurance geo w/ 38mm tires), and short rides with family/friends on the VO Neutrino(Mini Velo w/ swept back bars).
I have toe overlap with 700x38mm on the Breadwinner and I want to run 42mm semi knobby tires without worrying about toe overlap. I've never fallen from toe overlap, but I do have some annoyances at stop lights with my Soma Smoothie's toe overlap at times. I'm aware that toe overlap is a problem that I can avoid with riding technique, but after riding my Neutrino for the last year, I realized that I love not having any toe overlap to worry about in the first place.
I'm 5'9", 158lbs give or take 5 lbs depending on the time of the year. I don't put out much power, don't race, ride 99% on semi-crappy roads, mostly ride alone at the pace I want to go at. Sometimes, that's 12mph average, other times, that's 18mph average.
The bikes I've tried over the years:
- Aluminum
- Cannondale CAAD12 - Very stiff, the least buzzy aluminum frame I've tried
- Giant Defy AL - Stiff, fairly buzzy, quintessential aluminum frame, in my experience
- Jamis Ventura - Stiff, very buzzy
- Specialized Allez - Very Stiff, buzzy
- Carbon- Giant Defy AL - Stiff, fairly buzzy, quintessential aluminum frame, in my experience
- Jamis Ventura - Stiff, very buzzy
- Specialized Allez - Very Stiff, buzzy
- Felt Z85 - Very Stiff, nice and quiet ride
- Felt Z5 - Very Stiff, nice and quiet ride
- Scott Addict - Very Stiff, a bit more road buzz than other carbon bikes
- A bunch I'm not remembering. Sprinkle of Trek, Specialized, Jamis, and others...
- Steel- Felt Z5 - Very Stiff, nice and quiet ride
- Scott Addict - Very Stiff, a bit more road buzz than other carbon bikes
- A bunch I'm not remembering. Sprinkle of Trek, Specialized, Jamis, and others...
- Ritchey Road Logic - Stiff, 2nd quietest of all the steel bikes I've tried
- Breadwinner B Road - A bit too stiff for me, a bit buzzier than the Ritchey
- Jamis Satellite Comp - Not stiff at all, quietest of all steel bikes I've tried
- Mercier Kilo WT - Stiff, buzziest of most steel bikes I've tried
- Various Surly bikes - Stiff & Buzzy
- Soma Smoothie - Stiff enough, very smooth
- Magnesium- Breadwinner B Road - A bit too stiff for me, a bit buzzier than the Ritchey
- Jamis Satellite Comp - Not stiff at all, quietest of all steel bikes I've tried
- Mercier Kilo WT - Stiff, buzziest of most steel bikes I've tried
- Various Surly bikes - Stiff & Buzzy
- Soma Smoothie - Stiff enough, very smooth
- VAAST A/1 in 700c - Stiff & Light! about as quiet as carbon. I'd buy one of these if I didn't have to worry about paint chips.
Below is the Geo I'm thinking of:I don't plan on getting this bike anytime soon, just wondering what other people here think. Probably sometime around 2023 or 2024.
Also, paying my bike pic taxes...
Happy Holidays!
). However, (i) the corrosion resistance is overblown - unless you live by the ocean, you’d have to seriously neglect your painted steel frame for rust to be an issue, and (ii) geometry and tires will have a significantly larger effect on ride quality and comfort than frame material. Not trying to put you off Ti - I’ve ridden one for 16 years and it’s awesome, but if a nice steel frame of similar weight and geometry showed up, I’d be just as happy - Ti is very good, but it’s not “magical”
Last edited by Litespud; 12-25-21 at 01:03 AM.
12-25-21, 01:26 AM
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Whatever you get, make the TT longer and the stem shorter. Only easy way to rid some toe overlap.
12-25-21, 06:27 AM
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Please do talk about the ride qualities of the Veritas!
- Do you have any experience with other compact frames of different materials? If so, how does the frame material compare? Yes - my main road bike is a Flyte SRS-3 aluminum frame, also a sloping top tube bike but fits me better:
- Were they of similar build(components, tires, bars, seatpost, etc.): The Veritas is Dura Ace 7800 2x10, This one is a combo of Dura Ace 7703/7803/Ultegra 6500 & 6503. The Thomson bars and stem are stiff as is the frame. The ride quality is much stiffer and it can be a bit of a pain sled when I don’t have my early season minimum of 1,000 miles in.
- Were they built for similar purposes? The Veritas was purchased used and was supposed to be for my 5’8” friend. He passed on it saying the asking price was too high. I fitted the Ritchey Superlogic carbon seatpost and Ritchey 13cm stem to make it rideable for me - I’m 5’11-1/2”.
- What's different about the titanium frame?
- Do you have any experience with other compact frames of different materials? If so, how does the frame material compare? Yes - my main road bike is a Flyte SRS-3 aluminum frame, also a sloping top tube bike but fits me better:
- Were they of similar build(components, tires, bars, seatpost, etc.): The Veritas is Dura Ace 7800 2x10, This one is a combo of Dura Ace 7703/7803/Ultegra 6500 & 6503. The Thomson bars and stem are stiff as is the frame. The ride quality is much stiffer and it can be a bit of a pain sled when I don’t have my early season minimum of 1,000 miles in.
- Were they built for similar purposes? The Veritas was purchased used and was supposed to be for my 5’8” friend. He passed on it saying the asking price was too high. I fitted the Ritchey Superlogic carbon seatpost and Ritchey 13cm stem to make it rideable for me - I’m 5’11-1/2”.
- What's different about the titanium frame?
- More comfortable? Yes ! This bike has a very different ride compared to my others. Most like my steel framed Saint Tropez commuter:
but without the weight.
- Stiffer at the bottom bracket? It is stiff but nothing like the aluminum Flyte’s version of stiff. The Veritas has a bigger diameter top tube. The shock dampening qualities of this bike with my tubeless tire wheels makes it much less jarring / less fatiguing over bad pavement.
- Road vibrations? Excellent - the Ritchey Superlogic/Flexlogic post is at the limit line on this frameset that really should have been rejected by me as too small. Between the ti frame, all the compliance of the Flexlogic post and the tubeless wheels run down on pressures (such as 74 front / 85 rear), the dampening (compliance?) is really non-fatiguing.
but without the weight.
- Stiffer at the bottom bracket? It is stiff but nothing like the aluminum Flyte’s version of stiff. The Veritas has a bigger diameter top tube. The shock dampening qualities of this bike with my tubeless tire wheels makes it much less jarring / less fatiguing over bad pavement.
- Road vibrations? Excellent - the Ritchey Superlogic/Flexlogic post is at the limit line on this frameset that really should have been rejected by me as too small. Between the ti frame, all the compliance of the Flexlogic post and the tubeless wheels run down on pressures (such as 74 front / 85 rear), the dampening (compliance?) is really non-fatiguing.
12-25-21, 06:32 AM
#12
Senior Member
All sorts of things I want to put down in words here, but will keep it simple. Straight gauge Ti rides like top quality steel. Butted Ti rides similar, but tricks the mind into knowing it is better and faster and smoother because the brain knows it is butted tubing. Tires. air pressure in the tires, and fork will have a greater effect on the ride than the frame material.
You are going to have a long and torturous winter, poor thing.
You are going to have a long and torturous winter, poor thing.
Likes For TiHabanero:
12-25-21, 06:57 AM
#13
Full Member
As many bikes as you've owned, just buy one used and give it a shot.
Likes For jwalther:
12-25-21, 07:07 AM
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TL;DR: Any feedback for titanium ride when compared to their steel/aluminum/carbon equivalent?
Over the years, I've tried aluminum, carbon, and steel, but haven't had the chance to ride Ti before. Nor do I see an opportunity to test ride one anytime soon. Nobody I know owns one and the bike shops near me don't carry any.
The engineer in me tells me that any material can ride similarly, depending on the frame weight, tubing diameter, tire size, tire pressure, and other components on the bike.
However, my real life experiences in test rides and friends' bikes differ a bit. I'm sure it's confirmation bias, but most aluminum bikes were stiff and had a harsher road buzz, carbon bikes were very stiff, but it deadened the road buzz a lot, and steel bikes have been at either extremes of stiffness, and generally less buzzy than aluminum, but buzzier than carbon.
I'm sure the ride characteristics of each frame material is largely based on consumer demand: people want carbon bikes to be stiff at the BB, steel bikes to be compliant, aluminum to feel somewhere in between, and Titanium to feel a certain way.
Ride feel, to me, is largely about the road buzz and the way the vibration from the road gets transmitted to the rider. Most of my test rides were on road bikes with 700x25mm road tires, on 54cm-ish frames. Most with aluminum seat post and aluminum stem/bars.
The things I've read online about Titanium bikes are the cliché (which is the same case with Steel, Aluminum, and Carbon):
Would somebody who has ridden Ti bikes be able to comment in more specific detail?
The best type of input would be comparison between equivalent bikes: production titanium endurance road bike vs production steel/alu/carbon endurance road bike with same or similar components, similar fit, geometry, etc.
______________________________________________
Unrelated to my question above:
What I'm considering is a bike between my Ritchey Road Logic and my Breadwinner B-Road. I do my "fast" rides on my Ritchey Logic Disc with 28mm tires, longer/relaxed road rides with the Breadwinner(endurance geo w/ 38mm tires), and short rides with family/friends on the VO Neutrino(Mini Velo w/ swept back bars).
I have toe overlap with 700x38mm on the Breadwinner and I want to run 42mm semi knobby tires without worrying about toe overlap. I've never fallen from toe overlap, but I do have some annoyances at stop lights with my Soma Smoothie's toe overlap at times. I'm aware that toe overlap is a problem that I can avoid with riding technique, but after riding my Neutrino for the last year, I realized that I love not having any toe overlap to worry about in the first place.
I'm 5'9", 158lbs give or take 5 lbs depending on the time of the year. I don't put out much power, don't race, ride 99% on semi-crappy roads, mostly ride alone at the pace I want to go at. Sometimes, that's 12mph average, other times, that's 18mph average.
The bikes I've tried over the years:
- Aluminum
I don't plan on getting this bike anytime soon, just wondering what other people here think. Probably sometime around 2023 or 2024.
Also, paying my bike pic taxes...
Happy Holidays!
Over the years, I've tried aluminum, carbon, and steel, but haven't had the chance to ride Ti before. Nor do I see an opportunity to test ride one anytime soon. Nobody I know owns one and the bike shops near me don't carry any.
The engineer in me tells me that any material can ride similarly, depending on the frame weight, tubing diameter, tire size, tire pressure, and other components on the bike.
However, my real life experiences in test rides and friends' bikes differ a bit. I'm sure it's confirmation bias, but most aluminum bikes were stiff and had a harsher road buzz, carbon bikes were very stiff, but it deadened the road buzz a lot, and steel bikes have been at either extremes of stiffness, and generally less buzzy than aluminum, but buzzier than carbon.
I'm sure the ride characteristics of each frame material is largely based on consumer demand: people want carbon bikes to be stiff at the BB, steel bikes to be compliant, aluminum to feel somewhere in between, and Titanium to feel a certain way.
Ride feel, to me, is largely about the road buzz and the way the vibration from the road gets transmitted to the rider. Most of my test rides were on road bikes with 700x25mm road tires, on 54cm-ish frames. Most with aluminum seat post and aluminum stem/bars.
The things I've read online about Titanium bikes are the cliché (which is the same case with Steel, Aluminum, and Carbon):
- Titanium has a magic carpet ride
- Titanium is a "forever" bike
- Nothing rides like Titanium
On the other hand, I've also read:- Titanium is a "forever" bike
- Nothing rides like Titanium
- Titanium can have largely the same ride quality as steel, just lighter by 300-400grams or so for a production bike
- Titanium isn't forever, because of potential welding issues, and is harder and pricier to repair when/if it breaks
- The only reason to get titanium is for corrosion resistance and looks
I'm leaning towards the arguments against ti, but I do like the idea of corrosion resistance and not worrying about paint chips or scratches.- Titanium isn't forever, because of potential welding issues, and is harder and pricier to repair when/if it breaks
- The only reason to get titanium is for corrosion resistance and looks
Would somebody who has ridden Ti bikes be able to comment in more specific detail?
The best type of input would be comparison between equivalent bikes: production titanium endurance road bike vs production steel/alu/carbon endurance road bike with same or similar components, similar fit, geometry, etc.
______________________________________________
Unrelated to my question above:
What I'm considering is a bike between my Ritchey Road Logic and my Breadwinner B-Road. I do my "fast" rides on my Ritchey Logic Disc with 28mm tires, longer/relaxed road rides with the Breadwinner(endurance geo w/ 38mm tires), and short rides with family/friends on the VO Neutrino(Mini Velo w/ swept back bars).
I have toe overlap with 700x38mm on the Breadwinner and I want to run 42mm semi knobby tires without worrying about toe overlap. I've never fallen from toe overlap, but I do have some annoyances at stop lights with my Soma Smoothie's toe overlap at times. I'm aware that toe overlap is a problem that I can avoid with riding technique, but after riding my Neutrino for the last year, I realized that I love not having any toe overlap to worry about in the first place.
I'm 5'9", 158lbs give or take 5 lbs depending on the time of the year. I don't put out much power, don't race, ride 99% on semi-crappy roads, mostly ride alone at the pace I want to go at. Sometimes, that's 12mph average, other times, that's 18mph average.
The bikes I've tried over the years:
- Aluminum
- Cannondale CAAD12 - Very stiff, the least buzzy aluminum frame I've tried
- Giant Defy AL - Stiff, fairly buzzy, quintessential aluminum frame, in my experience
- Jamis Ventura - Stiff, very buzzy
- Specialized Allez - Very Stiff, buzzy
- Carbon- Giant Defy AL - Stiff, fairly buzzy, quintessential aluminum frame, in my experience
- Jamis Ventura - Stiff, very buzzy
- Specialized Allez - Very Stiff, buzzy
- Felt Z85 - Very Stiff, nice and quiet ride
- Felt Z5 - Very Stiff, nice and quiet ride
- Scott Addict - Very Stiff, a bit more road buzz than other carbon bikes
- A bunch I'm not remembering. Sprinkle of Trek, Specialized, Jamis, and others...
- Steel- Felt Z5 - Very Stiff, nice and quiet ride
- Scott Addict - Very Stiff, a bit more road buzz than other carbon bikes
- A bunch I'm not remembering. Sprinkle of Trek, Specialized, Jamis, and others...
- Ritchey Road Logic - Stiff, 2nd quietest of all the steel bikes I've tried
- Breadwinner B Road - A bit too stiff for me, a bit buzzier than the Ritchey
- Jamis Satellite Comp - Not stiff at all, quietest of all steel bikes I've tried
- Mercier Kilo WT - Stiff, buzziest of most steel bikes I've tried
- Various Surly bikes - Stiff & Buzzy
- Soma Smoothie - Stiff enough, very smooth
- Magnesium- Breadwinner B Road - A bit too stiff for me, a bit buzzier than the Ritchey
- Jamis Satellite Comp - Not stiff at all, quietest of all steel bikes I've tried
- Mercier Kilo WT - Stiff, buzziest of most steel bikes I've tried
- Various Surly bikes - Stiff & Buzzy
- Soma Smoothie - Stiff enough, very smooth
- VAAST A/1 in 700c - Stiff & Light! about as quiet as carbon. I'd buy one of these if I didn't have to worry about paint chips.
Below is the Geo I'm thinking of:I don't plan on getting this bike anytime soon, just wondering what other people here think. Probably sometime around 2023 or 2024.
Also, paying my bike pic taxes...
Happy Holidays!
12-25-21, 07:36 AM
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12-25-21, 07:51 AM
#16
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I have 1 Ti, 2 Al ( 1 for hauling & a Vitus rider) and only 1 carbon left out of my 18, the rest are steel and ride them all. I have one decline in my favorite ride that the last crew seal coating the asphalt did damage with a sweeper to the bike lane with very noticeable swirl marks that deliver a nasty rumble all the way down that I dislike. The majority of steel and the Ti equally handle this well. I fiddle a lot with saddles, posts, bars, stems, most have 28s, a couple 25s when the 28s were less than 4mm from the frame or FD clamp.
12-25-21, 09:09 AM
#17
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I absolutely agree; I'm bored, curious, and I have nothing else better to do. I know it doesn't really matter if titanium feels better than steel or carbon. I'm still going to ride bikes.
But isn't this kind of the whole point of forums though? Discussing somewhat useless topics with people who are as intensely absorbed in the same things as you are, because it's interesting? Otherwise, why are we here discussing things that don't really matter anyway?
But isn't this kind of the whole point of forums though? Discussing somewhat useless topics with people who are as intensely absorbed in the same things as you are, because it's interesting? Otherwise, why are we here discussing things that don't really matter anyway?
T-LAB X3 GRAVEL
12-25-21, 10:22 AM
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I absolutely agree; I'm bored, curious, and I have nothing else better to do. I know it doesn't really matter if titanium feels better than steel or carbon. I'm still going to ride bikes.
But isn't this kind of the whole point of forums though? Discussing somewhat useless topics with people who are as intensely absorbed in the same things as you are, because it's interesting? Otherwise, why are we here discussing things that don't really matter anyway?
But isn't this kind of the whole point of forums though? Discussing somewhat useless topics with people who are as intensely absorbed in the same things as you are, because it's interesting? Otherwise, why are we here discussing things that don't really matter anyway?
12-25-21, 10:36 AM
#19
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Your characterization of frame materials is flawed from the get-go. Back in the day, "everybody knew" that aluminum frames were flexy because frames like Alan and Vitus were aluminum and were flexy. Then Klein and Cannondale came out with "huge" (for the time) frame tubes and all of a sudden "everybody knew" that Al frames were uncomfortably stiff. Early CF frames were noodles too. Until Litespeed brought shaped tubing to the party, Ti frames were "known" to be flexy. Each frame material can be tailored to a given ride characteristic with the only difference being the final frame weight.
12-25-21, 11:56 AM
#20
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Happy Holidays!
I think you should just go for it and satisfy the itch for yourself.
I have 7 older bikes, 3 steel and 4 ti. My newest is a 2003, and my oldest is a 1987, 5 road bikes, and 2 cyclocross set up as all-road/gravel. While they all have their own particular personalities, I would say that the differences are due to minor variations in geometry and wheelsets, and tire sizes. Titanium is indeed very similar in ride to steel. Since I ride all of them in a rotation, I can personally feel the subtle differences including the very, very subtle difference in how titanium handles the same roads that I ride all the time (not counting the differences in handling due to geometry differences).
There are other reasons to want a ti bike, such as: beauty of a bare metal frame in different finishes (in the eye of the beholder, of course), the toughness and lightness of the material, and of course the excellence of whoever designed and built the particular frame.
I have never owned carbon or aluminum bikes, so I can't offer any opinions about those materials.
My latest build: 2000 Litespeed Appalachian
original_98afd5c9-fde0-491c-a7ed-f6cd76e585e4_IMG_20210416_173811197 by warren t., on Flickr
I think you should just go for it and satisfy the itch for yourself.
I have 7 older bikes, 3 steel and 4 ti. My newest is a 2003, and my oldest is a 1987, 5 road bikes, and 2 cyclocross set up as all-road/gravel. While they all have their own particular personalities, I would say that the differences are due to minor variations in geometry and wheelsets, and tire sizes. Titanium is indeed very similar in ride to steel. Since I ride all of them in a rotation, I can personally feel the subtle differences including the very, very subtle difference in how titanium handles the same roads that I ride all the time (not counting the differences in handling due to geometry differences).
There are other reasons to want a ti bike, such as: beauty of a bare metal frame in different finishes (in the eye of the beholder, of course), the toughness and lightness of the material, and of course the excellence of whoever designed and built the particular frame.
I have never owned carbon or aluminum bikes, so I can't offer any opinions about those materials.
My latest build: 2000 Litespeed Appalachian
original_98afd5c9-fde0-491c-a7ed-f6cd76e585e4_IMG_20210416_173811197 by warren t., on Flickr
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12-25-21, 12:15 PM
#21
Senior Member
I have two nice ti rides - an IF Crown Jewel Ti and a Serotta Legend Ti, as well as a couple more steel Crown Jewels. My take on steel vs. ti:
If I'm riding on roads with exposed aggregate, the steel bikes transmit a rumble. The ti bikes have more of a buzz, like the rumble frequency was shifted up and to a less offensive spectrum.
If the road is smooth, the ti bikes have more of the "floating on glass" feeling than the steel bikes. There's nothing wrong with the steel bikes on those surfaces, though.
I've gotten to the point where I'm now selling all my steel road bikes and just keeping the ti. Don't need the rumble anymore.
If I'm riding on roads with exposed aggregate, the steel bikes transmit a rumble. The ti bikes have more of a buzz, like the rumble frequency was shifted up and to a less offensive spectrum.
If the road is smooth, the ti bikes have more of the "floating on glass" feeling than the steel bikes. There's nothing wrong with the steel bikes on those surfaces, though.
I've gotten to the point where I'm now selling all my steel road bikes and just keeping the ti. Don't need the rumble anymore.
12-25-21, 03:56 PM
#22
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I'll be able to comment at some point after Tuesday, when UPS sez my new 1995 Litespeed Ultimate will arrive. I am not handling the whole "waiting patiently" thing very well, honestly.
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12-25-21, 03:58 PM
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I absolutely agree; I'm bored, curious, and I have nothing else better to do. I know it doesn't really matter if titanium feels better than steel or carbon. I'm still going to ride bikes.
But isn't this kind of the whole point of forums though? Discussing somewhat useless topics with people who are as intensely absorbed in the same things as you are, because it's interesting? Otherwise, why are we here discussing things that don't really matter anyway?
But isn't this kind of the whole point of forums though? Discussing somewhat useless topics with people who are as intensely absorbed in the same things as you are, because it's interesting? Otherwise, why are we here discussing things that don't really matter anyway?
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12-28-21, 11:05 AM
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My Litespeed is a "Team" frame that has the geometry of the Classic, but with bigger tubes -- IT rides as stiff as an OS steel bike. Being a "Team" , it was not built for comfort or to have a magic carpet ride im guessing. That said, - its not bad at all. I'd expect other designs , like the early Litespeed Ultimates and similar are probably similar. However, Merlins and other Litespeeds (The Appalachian pictured in this thread for instance ) look to have different tubing specs and likely would give that lively ride Ti is well known for
12-28-21, 11:06 AM
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Happy Holidays!
I think you should just go for it and satisfy the itch for yourself.
I have 7 older bikes, 3 steel and 4 ti. My newest is a 2003, and my oldest is a 1987, 5 road bikes, and 2 cyclocross set up as all-road/gravel. While they all have their own particular personalities, I would say that the differences are due to minor variations in geometry and wheelsets, and tire sizes. Titanium is indeed very similar in ride to steel. Since I ride all of them in a rotation, I can personally feel the subtle differences including the very, very subtle difference in how titanium handles the same roads that I ride all the time (not counting the differences in handling due to geometry differences).
There are other reasons to want a ti bike, such as: beauty of a bare metal frame in different finishes (in the eye of the beholder, of course), the toughness and lightness of the material, and of course the excellence of whoever designed and built the particular frame.
I have never owned carbon or aluminum bikes, so I can't offer any opinions about those materials.
My latest build: 2000 Litespeed Appalachian
original_98afd5c9-fde0-491c-a7ed-f6cd76e585e4_IMG_20210416_173811197 by warren t., on Flickr
I think you should just go for it and satisfy the itch for yourself.
I have 7 older bikes, 3 steel and 4 ti. My newest is a 2003, and my oldest is a 1987, 5 road bikes, and 2 cyclocross set up as all-road/gravel. While they all have their own particular personalities, I would say that the differences are due to minor variations in geometry and wheelsets, and tire sizes. Titanium is indeed very similar in ride to steel. Since I ride all of them in a rotation, I can personally feel the subtle differences including the very, very subtle difference in how titanium handles the same roads that I ride all the time (not counting the differences in handling due to geometry differences).
There are other reasons to want a ti bike, such as: beauty of a bare metal frame in different finishes (in the eye of the beholder, of course), the toughness and lightness of the material, and of course the excellence of whoever designed and built the particular frame.
I have never owned carbon or aluminum bikes, so I can't offer any opinions about those materials.
My latest build: 2000 Litespeed Appalachian
original_98afd5c9-fde0-491c-a7ed-f6cd76e585e4_IMG_20210416_173811197 by warren t., on FlickrBeautiful !