staehpj1

Yeah, I'd agree that buying a nice bag is a real treat and well worth indulging yourself. I think we may have been thinking of different things when we refer to a "good" sleeping bag. I think there are a wide range of levels of what that might mean to different folks.

My favorite bag is just over a pound (17 ounces) and I have used it for down into the teens in pretty good comfort with some clothing to supplement it. It cost several hundred dollars. It is as warm of a bag as I have felt the need for for touring since I tour either in the warmer seasons or in warmer places in winter. I did ride the Southern tier starting in mid February with it. Also backpacked and toured in shoulder seasons where it got fairly cold at night. So there were many frosty nights and it has been used in the teens a few times. I think that I probably put out heat like a furnace though because i typically wake up comfortable and others around me come out with all their coldest weather clothes on. down jackets, winter hats, and all. They are complaining about how they froze the night before and I slept fine and am comfy in my regular riding clothes a light pile sweater and a windshirt.

I am not sure, but I suspect that they get into their warm bag when it is still warm and get it damp with sweat. Then they get cold when the temp goes down later. I start out with only as much warmth as needed. If it is warm I sleep on top of the bag and progressively pull the bag over me, climb in, zip up, put the hood on, pull the draw cord tight (but breath out the hole). That may or may have nothing to do with the difference, but I take care to not get sweaty in the bag before it gets colder.

I have a colder rated bag, but I never use it unless winter camping.

BTW, your 5 pounds of down figure sounds like a huge amount of down and a lot of bag to carry! A very high end bag like say a Feathered Friends ($1000.49) -40F rated bag that has 900- fil down weighs 4 pounds 2.9 ounces for the regular length. It has 2 lb 10 oz of down. That is for a way colder rated bag than I'd probably ever use even for winter camping. Feathered Friends make a 20F rated bag that has 1 lb 0.8 oz of down the bag weighs1 lb 12.7 oz. and costs $519.

Are you sure your bag has that much down? Is it a rectangular bag? Rated for super cold temps?

Edited to say that the Feathered Friends is a very high end bag and the 900- fil down is real high grade stuff so a lower priced bag with lower fill rated down will have more weight of down for a given rating, but 5# of down is pretty extreme.

stardognine

Hey, I actually found my bag online, but couldn't save an image. It's an actual REI catalog page, at a site called innov8 (with the normal www stuff, lol).

It was called the Mountaineer, made for winter camping & climbing, probably in the '70s or '80s, and had 3 1/4 pounds of down, thick nylon shell, and weighed 5 pounds 10 ounces, altogether (for the long version, which this is).

So I "exaggerated" the weight a bit, by guessing, but not by too much. 😁😉

EDIT: Forgot to say, it cost $151.00 new, whenever that was. Might be a bit more now. 😉

PedalingWalrus

soo - how did the S240 go?

PedalingWalrus

Yes, it seems like we did ride through the forest:

indyfabz

So it looks like you did get on the trail at Plainfield. The early miles of that thing were a mess, thanks in part due to sustained rain the day before. Later on there is a spur that takes you down to Stillwater State Park. Nice place if you are ever back that way again. (You can rent kayaks and/or canoes.) I was supposed to have a rest day there but took the rest day a day earlier in Barnard, VT because of the rain event tat lasted nearly all day.

PedalingWalrus

the previous screen shots were from friends strava who recorded the trip in one take. I noticed a straight line there and checked it with my strava for comparison - he may have had a gps hickup there. Here is my strava screenshot of that section:


If you use strava I'd be perfectly ok with sharing the real link here

superdex

TLDR: I'm hooked.


So I have one question (and this is something I deal with every time I camp, whether car-camping with the Fam or even in the backyard with the kids once in a while): How do you relax and go to sleep? It's really hard for me to get past feeling so vulnerable at night. I mean, I'm just a burrito in the woods out there, a bundled up man-snack behind a thin nylon coating that's just keeping me warm like a heat lamp at the buffet. I slept very lightly, trying to discern if sounds I heard were hooves or my rain fly rustling in the breeze (no, it wasn't super snug, I knew it wasn't going to rain so I just wanted it on). I slept with the bear spray next to me. Then it would get unbelievably still and quiet. I laid there, heart pounding, for like an hour, then fall asleep for an hour, then wake up, then back to sleep for an hour or two, then back up. Not the best night sleep, BUT-- The pad and bag were plenty warm. I had my smartwool layers and merino socks. I didn't need gloves or a beanie. I am a warm sleeper but in all the obsession I didn't want to over-estimate how warm and end up accidentally under-packing. I kept alternating between my back and side, and the pad was surprisingly comfortable for side sleeping. Nice! The coldest part of the night, honestly, was 6:30am after I got up to catch sunrise over Pikes Peak and then find a sunny spot to get warm.

I took my time packing everything up and after texting the wife, I chose a different route out of the park to see a couple ponds (maybe catch some wildlife?). I ended up hike-a-bike a couple times climbing out of the park. The Lezyne was approaching 20% at times. I knew I would at some point; I just didn't want to hike-a-bike a mile and a half. Ended up just a couple hundred feet a couple times. Not bad. Sadly, no wildlife. I crest the trail and back onto pavement just as a line of 20 people on trail horses were heading my way, to go down the trail I just came up!

The ride back to the car was fast. I'd planned the route to be mostly downhill on the way back and I'm SO glad I did. 2700+ Ft of climbing on Sat, barely 1k on Sunday. I stopped in Divide for a hot cup of coffee and a bacon/egg/cheese biscuit called out to me. Ironically, I spent the night in a state park that touts its wildlife and the only wildlife I did see was in Woodland Park (deer). Oh well. It was a fantastic experience and I want to do another one this weekend!










Hot breakfast

Tubeless for the win! I had no idea it happened until I put the bike back on the car on Sunday....

superdex

Saturday: https://strava.app.link/lACvMYHKDtb

Sunday: https://strava.app.link/BoFEAaLKDtb

PedalingWalrus

Well, regarding your question on how to relax when going to bed...I suppose accepting your fate and role in the food chain is one way to settle the mind. In general, wildlife should leave You alone if you don't telegraph to them the message of FOOD. So, if a bear came at night and wanted to kill You do you honestly think you could outrun or outwrestle the beast in the dark of night? They can knock your head off with one swipe, climb the trees better than you and run faster than You but in general the beasts (including humans) don't want much of energy sapping activity so history shows us that we can sleep in the woods unbothered.

When I am camping with others I usually wear earplugs - that is pretty cool way to block off worrying sounds of the night. However, it is much better to learn to get used to the creatures of the night...one thing is for sure... a hedgehog or similar small creature makes tons of noise in the quiet of the night. Those sounds usually worry people. A much bigger creature usually makes much much more noise in the woods as they go about. Deer stepping on a dry branch causing a crack in the night is like a gunshot (almost) etc etc...

pdlamb

IME the opposite is true. You can hear a squirrel from a good ways off. A racoon or skunk will scratch around enough that you know it's there. A herd of deer walking through a campground barely rustles the tree leaves. I saw a bear within 15' of our tent coming back from the bathroom; my wife, inside the tent, didn't know it was there until I alerted her.

Noisiest critters in the woods? Two barred owls caterwauling right over our tent is in second place. First place belongs to a whipporwill -- darn thing was maybe 25' away and started up at sunset, then continued for a couple hours at least. Figured out where it was within five or six feet, but despite tromping around looking for it, it never even paused. Took serious willpower to relax (yeah, I know it sounds contradictory) enough to fall asleep..

superdex

That is one way to look at it. I think I just need to do it more to gain confidence. This site had a bear box and I had everything put away; and I know for the most part the animals could give a sh**ake mushroom. This site is one of two in close proximity to each other, but 1.5mi away from the main campground. Dispersed, but with a bear box, decomposing toilet, tent pad and a picnic table. My kind of dispersed ... I am amazed at the high level of trust between the humans. I have to say there's a part of me more anxious about other people than animals. Go figure.

PedalingWalrus

Yeah, whippoorwill is a huge PITA :-)

I once camped on an island in a hammock and woke up hearing what sounded like a deer walking through. When I woke up to pee before sunrise I spooked a dear right next to me. In the daylight I noticed the flattened grass where the deer slept literally 3-4 feet away from my hammock - probably its favorite spot every night and I invaded it.

stardognine

PedalingWalrus summed it up pretty good, about relaxing enough for sleeping. We all gotta die sometime, no sense worrying about it. 😋😉

Besides it's not the bears you need to worry about, usually, it's those darn raccoons. 🙄

I'm pretty sure that's why they really made bear cans, but they were too embarrassed to call them 'coon cans. 😁😉
​​

indyfabz

I don't have an account, but I have still been able to look at Strava links. Thanks.

PedalingWalrus

ok. Here You Go :-)

superdex

That looks awesome!

indyfabz

Heh. The first time I camped at a primitive campsite was when I camped alone at the joint USFS/Adventure Cycling site a few miles up the west slope of Togwotee Pass in Wyoming. Up until that time I had only camped at developed sites like state and municipal parks and private campgrounds. This place had a stunning view of the Tetons. Wild flowers still in bloom. The facility consisted of a bear locker and a picnic table or two along with maybe one fire ring. There were what appeared to be moose tracks in the dried earth. And there was at least one tree stump that appeared to have been scratched apart by bears looking for grubs or something. I was sufficiently off the highway and out of site that no one would have heard me scream.

When I was ready to turn in for the night I realized I had pitched my tent close to the bear locker. (It was the only location that had a soft surface of plant growth. Every creak of a branch and fall of a pine cone in the nearby woods spooked the hell out of me. I got very little sleep, and I still had to finish the climb the next morning. As soon as the sun started to rise I got up and packed in a hurry to lessen the chance of any critter encounter(s). Fortunately, there was a dude ranch a few more miles up the climb that had a restaurant open to the public. I felt much safer there.

These days, I rarely think about things like that, event after coming face to face at about 25' with a giant black bear as I was about to leave camp during my 2017 cross-PA tour.

superdex

Sounds like I just need to get out there more frequently. I'm ok with that

indyfabz

Thanks. The confirms my recollection. You stayed on U.S. beyond Plainfield and got on the old rail bed further east. That must have been when I started seeing signs for the VT trail. You are lucky. You missed the really bad parts between Plainfield and where you joined after leaving U.S. 2. At one point the trail is not on the old rail bed. I had to get off and push the bike up a short but very steep rise that was rocky and rooted. (my guess is that the re-route was needed due to a missing bridge.) Also, it looked like they had run treaded, heavy machinery over parts of that section to make repairs/clear fallen trees. That machinery left behind depressions in places that had filled with water from the heavy rain the day before. I had to walk a few times.

Just west of where Boulder Beach Road crosses the trail you can see a faint, dotted line. That's the spur that takes you down to the park entrance. It was like single track mountain biking.

indyfabz

A flask of bourbon can help.

superdex

Yes, yes indeed.

indyfabz

That, and increased riding distance, will probably make it much easier to fall asleep when you are ready.

stardognine

I noticed that too, a heck of a lot of the deer I've seen, were either trying to "sneak" past me, or just plain didn't care how close they got to me. Especially the fawns, I've walked right up to them at times, coming around a blind curve or tree or something, like maybe 10 feet away, before seeing them, and they STILL didn't run off. They just stand still, staring at ya. 🙄😉 I suspect that if they weren't hunted for food so much, they might've been domesticated long ago. 🤔

stardognine

OK, one more time. I found an ad for one of these bags online, where the owner bought it to use in Alaska, then never went. So it's still new. 🙂 He bought his new in 1977, and they were rated for -30°F, and made by the old THAW company, which made a lot of gear for REI.

I noticed that his "regular" length is 90" long, so mine is probably a regular too. 🤔 I've gotten kinda used to regulars being too short, these days.🙄😉

BTW, when I lived in Seattle, on Capitol Hill, I shopped and/or browsed the old store on 11th street several times. When they moved down to their current location, the old store was a Value Village thrift store for several years.

Anyways, here's a few pics, from that ad I mentioned, including my missing tag. 😁

staehpj1

Looks like a nice bag. I'd use something like that for winter camping when it is really cold (XC skiing? Snowshoeing?), but it is more bag than I'd probably ever tour with. Some folks sleep a lot colder than I do though or maybe tour in real winter weather.

I tend to use a 17 ounce bag and supplement with clothing. Also being in either a bivy or very small tent tends to be warmer. I do sometimes consider splurging on a slightly heavier bag that is a little warmer. I could carry a bit less clothing on some trips and wind up at the same total gear weight if any of the clothing weight was for sleeping warmth. That probably is true in some cases.

With my 17 ounce bag I do need some clothing on for cold nights. When it gets down into the teens I use all my clothing either piled on me or worn. I figure that a Feathered Friends Swift UL 20 at 1 lb 13.2 oz would get me by with pretty much never needing to wear extra clothing beyond what I like to wear (warm socks, tech tee, and tights). Price is $599.00 so it doesn't come cheap and my current bag is pretty nice. I might splurge if I find myself doing more higher altitude shoulder season camping. Otherwise I take some extra warm with the 17 ounce bag. Also if my planned 2026 TA reprise starts to really look like a reality I may treat myself.