big john

It's about time, amIright?

3alarmer 

....it's a good distraction from all the other things I should be ashamed of.

big john

That damned shame is a heavy burden to carry around all your life.

tomato coupe

So, you're advocating that the pros should ride road bikes in time trials because TT bikes are too dangerous, yet you're insisting that recreational cyclists should ride road bike that are set up to mimic TT bikes? You are truly the king of all trolls.

genejockey 

I believe what he wants is for the UCI to do a big experiment for him, to prove what we already know, which is that TT bikes are significantly faster for the same power than road bikes.

But nobody rides a TT bike for 220 km, which is how long the longest road stage of this year's TdF was, whereas the longest TT was 40.7 km, so it makes no sense to set up your road bike like a TT bike unless you only ever ride it less than 50 km.

70sSanO

I really think Tim was hoping to add signatures to his petition for UCI to test bikes. So far there is one signature.

John

genejockey 

I don't think they test bikes. I think they just ban them.

70sSanO

Hopefully they also ban petitions.

John

HTupolev

I brought it up and he denied its relevance. People it doesn't affect tend to struggle to understand the way it impacts road fits (and why TT/Tri fits are nearly-ubiquitous in using forward saddle positions).

genejockey 

Yes. If you look at the pic of my Litespeed, you may note I have a zero setback seatpost, with the saddle clamped in about the middle. I may have even moved it forward since then.

terrymorse 

What's your intention for these 15-minute standing drills of yours? That's a long time to be out of the saddle.

On a road ride, there's very little need to stand for more than, say, 30 seconds at a time. For example, to take off from a standing start, to push up a short grade without down shifting, or to give your butt and lower back a rest.

genejockey 

Unless you're Marco Pantani climbing Alpe d'Huez, in the drops, dancing on the pedals.

timtak

Flexibility does not seem to be an issue for me, but I accept that it is an issue for some.

Yes. Still only one alas ;-;

Not an experiment exactly. I would like there to be a pro model for the solo amateur rider. I would not have to be any difference in length to current time trials. 44km would be fine. I ride my bike for generally less than 50km and I guess that a lot of other amateur riders do also. Would the pros use lots of saddle to bar drop or go back to old school low, rear offset and forward thrusting legs? Would they ride on the drops, in the hooks, or resting on the tops? In any event, if their were a pro road-bike time trial then it would be a lesson in road bike set up and form for hard riding solo amateurs.

I am not sure why you think that is trolling. Mimicking a TT bike is not as dangerous as riding one. Robbie's bike in a sense mimics a time trial bike but he still has his hands on brifters that are about 40cm apart. I think I could still ride in traffic with some 36cm road bike bars, but the "skis" (the narrower of the two sets of TT bars) are only about 10cm apart, and they do not have brakes.

Chris Froome opined that time trials are too dangerous for pros mainly because it is difficult to find a place to practice or ordinary roads at 6:30 in the following video

If pro time-trials were held on road bikes then their innovations would be a better bargain for solo amateur cyclists wishing to ride fast.

indyfabz

Can I interest some of you in a slightly used bridge in Brooklyn?

3alarmer 

...I really like that bridge. I think it's beautiful. All that steel.

70sSanO

I’ll buy your bridge if you buy my crypto.

John

genejockey 

If your position is as comfortable as you say and as advantageous as you say, the pros would have adopted it. They haven't.

The design of their bikes and their position on them is already optimized and tested with wind tunnels and power meters. Clearly, if sitting way back and bending like a jackknife, with their hands down around the fork crown - like the old "funny bikes' of the 1980s - were more efficient, they'd be doing that. They WERE doing that, and they stopped, because your position is not, in fact, optimal for a EITHER a TT bike or a road bike. TT bikes do not replicate your position - the saddle is farther forward to open up the hips and allow the rider to apply power to the pedals. The hands and arms are not down around the top of the fork, but rather are up and forward. Indeed, the stack has gotten HIGHER as speeds have gone up.

So, your bike doesn't try to adapt TT bike thinking to a road bike but rather actually takes all the lessons learned in the last 30 years with actual empirical testing and throws them out the window. Again, if there were anything to your arguments, empirical testing would have shown it. It hasn't, so there isn't.

tomato coupe

Reason and rationality have no place in this thread.

koala logs

Remember the climbing speed vs energy thread I started. It got me convinced to hit climbs faster and looked to improving my FTP.

One thing led to another while trying to improve my FTP and found myself standing more often during the hard intervals. I found it suits me well. I can keep higher HR in the 15 minute hard intervals and burn more calories.

As long as my back and legs didn't hurt.

timtak

I am beginning to wonder.

You may be right that the current style of bike and pedalling in the pro tours is just plain superior to previous styles of "funny bikes" and bent over like a jackknife riding style, but that depends on the assumption that there is only one effective style of riding a road bike in each era which is applicable in all contexts. I have been trying to persuade you and other members, that the current (by turns, rather upright by comparison) style of riding evolved due to changes in the pro tour to being a more group orientated race, which is neither suitable to pros in the past, nor to solo amateurs, nor to pros riding time trials on road bikes.

Thus, if road bike riding time trials were reintroduced, the pros might go back to their "funny bikes" and jackknife style of riding. There is nothing illogical about this hypothesis and there is no proof that the current style would be superior in such a context, unless you have proof that the current style is context independent, and that the pros, the pros, are always universally right. Perhaps you will mention how much the pros spend again, and their socks?

Incidentally the bunched up like a jackknife style was prevalent even into Armstrong's era not just the 1980's. The famous photo of Armstrong naked on his bike shows him utilising the style.

livedarklions

Oh ffs. That's obviously not a good posture for breathing and you're citing a guy who was using epo? You have no business telling people to look at the context of racing practices.

How many times do you have to make a fool of yourself before you cut out the crap? Nobody is buying the crap you're selling.
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genejockey 

The horse, standing ankle deep in the water, dies of dehydration.

genejockey 

Imagine using a posed picture as proof of a rider's position, when there are multiple pictures of that rider in action, as well as numerous pictures of the bikes he rode, none of which have slammed, extra-long, negative rise stems.

tomato coupe

I had a bike fitting done by Annie Leibovitz several years ago. She's really good, but kind of pricey.

Trakhak

Temba, his arms wide.