tcarl

I have a Bottecchia Road Bike (bought used) which I don't really know anything about and wonder if anyone can supply any information. The frame has a Columbus sticker on it, but the part that tells what tubing it is has worn off. It's painted a yellow to white fade. The fork is chrome. There is a metal Bottecchia badge riveted to the head tube and a decal "The Professional Bike" on the chainstay. The original parts are all Campagnolo Gran Sport. This dates the bike in that I think those parts were discontinued around 1984. The seat is yellow, plastic, and has "Turbo" printed on it. It is rather heavy and harsh riding with clincher tires, very nice riding with tubulars, very stiff - excellent hill climber, and the best all-around handling frame I have among my road bikes. As best as I can make out, the serial number is M4 7807 85. Any idea what type of Columbus tubing, when is was made, and whether this is a high-, mid-, or low quality frame/bicycle? Thanks for your help.

gomango

Sounds great!

Welcome to our forum.

Please post some pics at your earliest convenience, and we'll help you figure this out.

Kommisar89

Something like this?



It's really hard to say with any certainty given the information you provided. A 7807 serial number could put it in the early 90's though that doesn't match Gran Sport for the period but yellow/white fade doesn't sound like early 80's either. The Campy components should have date codes on them. Could also be that the components were added to a frame bought later and the periods don't match. Post some pictures and I can probably give you more information.

tcarl

I've spent the last hour trying to figure out how to post pictures. Hasn't worked. I'm not very computer savvy. The frame in Kommisar89's photo appears to be the same as what I have. The only differences I see are that his fork is painted, mine is all chrome, and his frame has decals on it whereas mine has "messed up" paint at those locations. I've assumed decals were there at one time. Regarding the serial number, I wouldn't put any certainty in the "7807" part. The numbers weren't stamped very well, only the top half of each number is visible. These four numbers were all guesses based on which numerals have flat or rounded tops. I have doubts about the theory that it's an early 90's frame in that I purchased the bike in the early 90's from someone who had also purchased it used, never rode it, and decided to sell it. From that I think the frame must be older than the early 90's. I'm also sure the person I bought it from didn't change any parts. He didn't know a thing about bicycles, what he had, what it was worth, or anything. Even though I was the buyer, he asked me to appraise it - tell him what he had - and what I thought it was worth. I proposed what I thought was a fair price and he accepted it. I think it would have been impossible for him to have changed any parts. I have no knowledge of who he purcahsed if from or when. I'm considering having the frame repainted and putting better parts (Ultegra) on it (the Gran Sport components which came on it are long gone), and I'm wondering if it's a high enough quality frame to be worth the expense.

tcarl

Kommisar89 - I tried to privated message you because your bike looks the same as mine, but I'm too new of a member for private message to work. I think you have the same frame as I. What can you tell me about it? Thanks.

beech333

What are those brake levers?

GrayJay

If it has shift lever braze-ons or braze-on cable guides that would likely date it to late 70's or newer, if it does not have the braze-ons then it may well be older. There are a lot of early 70's boom-bike era Botttechias that have survived so I wouldnt be suprized if it is even older than you thought.
Any info on the dropouts or the seatpost size? Pictures would really help. Post them to a photoshare site and send a link if you cannot get them uploaded here. I think photos for this site need to be under a certain size limit?

shnibop 

Modolo Kronos

tcarl

GrayJay-It does have the shift lever braze-ons. The seatpost is 27.0 mm. The frame pictured in Kommisar89's post is exactly the same as I have except my fork is all chrome.

Kommisar89

The bike in the picture I posted was advertised on eBay as an '87 and came originally with Campagnolo Super Record and Turbo saddle. I don't own the bike so I can't really say anything more than that about it. The fork is probably fully chromed underneath and most Bottecchias in the 80's came with chrome forks.

Here's some basic tips of what to look for to date the frame - the first thing to look at is the decals. Unfortunately you said those are missing. Normally the victory dates for the Italian Championship and World Championship can nail down the date pretty close. Next would be the dropouts. Late 70's frames typically have Campagnolo dropouts, early 80's frames Gipiemme, mid-80's and later Columbus. Then look for a front derailleur braze-on. Those started around 1985 but only on higher-end models. Then look at the cable routing. high-end frames started using internal cable routing in 1987. For tubing, look in two places. Shine a light inside the fork steer tube. SL, SP, SLX, SPX, & TSX will all have rifling inside the tubing. Then look inside the bottom bracket shell. SL & SP will not have rifling but the other tubing types will. Then try pulling the seat post out and looking in the seat tube from the top. I believe (though I haven't tried it) you should see rifling all the way through the tubing if it's TSX. SLX & SPX were used starting 1984. TSX started being used in 1989. A 27.0mm seatpost usually indicates SP, SPX, or Cromor. What color is the remaining part of the Columbus decal? We might be able to ID the tubing from that as well or at least narrow it down.

I'm not aware of any specific models that looked like that frame but came with Gran Sport but Bottecchias were also available as a bare frame or as a custom build with any group so it is not unreasonable to think somebody ordered it that way even if it was not listed in the catalog like that. If you go to https://photobucket.com/ you can post your pictures there. After that it is easy to put the links in your posts here.

T-Mar

Barring pictures, my guess is that the M stamp indicates Columbus Matrix tubing. Carnielli definitely stamped late 1980s and 1990 models with a tubeset indicator. While this would be the earliest sample we've come acoss, it a possibility they did it back into the mid-1980s. Matrix is also a good fit for the post size, timeframe and component level.

Kommisar89

T-Mar, I had forgotten about Matrix. I just found your old post about it from a couple of years ago:

"Cromor was the replacement name for Columbus' Matrix tubing, used after Trek slapped Columbus with a copyright lawsuit for infringing on their Matrix rims. Matrix tubing was available in 1986, so if we assume this is a 1986 model on the basis of the decals, then either Columbus manufactured Aelle R and Matrix concurrently or Carnielli had a lot of leftover Matrix stock that needed to be used up."
I'm pretty sure that I've seen early to mid 80's Bottecchia serial numbers with a letter in front that probably indicates the tubing type but did not have it cast into the bottom bracket like the later ones. I gotta run right now but I'll try to find some info on that later.

Bianchigirll 

Tcarl sent me a few pics (it is too small) so you all get to see it now LOL

looks nice Columbus tubing of some sort, is that a SR crank? (or TA?)

tcarl

I really appreciate all of the help I'm getting on this. Bianchigirl has offered to post pictures if I send them to her, which I just did, so hopefully they'll be up soon. Note that the componants pictured on the bike are not the Campy Gran Sport which was on it when I bought it. I also looked at the Columbus sticker much more closely and found it says "tretubi aelle". I've been researching that for the last hour - lots about aelle tubing here on this site! My current conclusion is that the three main tubes are Aelle, the fork and stays ? tubing. From the multitude of posts I've read, I get the idea that the Aelle tubing is not the best, but also not bad, not butted, and a bit on the heavy side. This fits with my description of the bike as being heavy. As a 220-pound rider with "tree trunk" legs I appreciated the un-bending stiffness of the frame. I'm wondering if the heavier, straight gauge tubing is better for hard riding by someone of my weight and strength. As a comparison, my long distance bike was (and still is) a 1987 Paramount with Columbus SLX tubing - not as stiff (but not bad), and much more comfortable.

This was my general, all purpose "good" bike for shorter, fast rides until a few years ago when it was replaced by something better. Apparently the design and quality of build also make a distance. I earlier described the ride as "the best all-around handling" frame I've had, so I'd think the geometry/design is good. As for as build quality, I also think it must be fairly good in that in many miles and years of hard use, nothing's cracked, broken or come loose. I guess the final test is in the ride: I'm very happy with it for what I use it for. That's why I'm thinking of repainting it and upgrading the parts. If anyone can provide any more information, I'm still interested in what you know, and if you have an opinion as to whether it's worth upgrading or not, I'll take it. Thanks.

tcarl

I see the pictures are already here. Thanks Bianchigirl! The crankset is a Suguino Mighty Compe, a copy of the old Campagnolo Nuovo Record (in fact, the small chainring is a Nuovo Record 42 tooth). That crank dates from the late 70's -early 80's. It just won't wear out!

T-Mar

Based on the post size, I wouldn't have guessed Aelle. Someone must have been a bit heavy handed with the reaming/honing or really forced it in.

The alternative is that it a repaint and somebody slapped on the wrong tubing decal. I would not have expected dual bottle bosses on a tretubi Aelle frame that is presumibly from the mid-1980s. The OP should continue the tubeset investigation per K89's suggestions, despite the decal.

A full Aelle tubeset is almost a full pound heavier than SL by virtue of the non-butted tubes. Yet, the wall thickness is thinner than the butted ends of SL, so it is actually not as strong at the critcal tube junctions where the highest stresses occur. Aelle was typically found on lower, mid-range models. Given that this one is tretubi Aelle, would actually put it upper entry level for the presumed era.

senisbs

I have two samples deciphering M4:
Tretubi Aelle (86-87) and
TRETUBI AELLE CARBONO MANGANESE (89).
I never seen this color scheme (yet). Serial number 7807, I would put it early 90's.
"85", did you mean "55", because that should be the size of the frame.
My 2c.

senisbs

Just saw another Bottecchia, M3 in serial #, has Columbus Aelle sticker. Early 86, I guess.
Besides "dark periods" pre-72, and 74 - 85, I think the serial numbers have 2 formats:
NNNNNN in 70s, and L[LL/N] NNN[N] NN in 80-90s, where L- is a letter, N - number, [] - optional numbers/letters.
Location: on a seat tube closer to the saddle for 70's, under bottom bracket for 80's.
For example: 250515 ('72 Special) or SPX 5170 59 ('89).

Robofunc

I came across this thread while looking for info about a Bottecchia I recently purchased. My bike looks very similar to the OP's post. The paint is a similar two-tone fade and the chrome forks are also similar. I think all my components are original (Shimano 105). The only Campy part is the aero seatpost. The Columbus SL stickers are intact and legible and there is a faint SL stamped on the BB shell. The serial number is poorly stamped, but I believe it says "005911," which I'm guessing makes it 91. The "Campiogne del Mondo" stickers list '89 as the most recent win date, so it makes sense that this is an early 90s model. As far as a model name, I'm clueless.

Here are reference pictures from my happy "look what I just got" thread:

GrayJay

Good find. The paint scheme is a copy of the 1989 ABR team bikes that Lemond rode to victory at the TDF and worlds that year. They probably sold a good number of "tribute" bikes in that scheme the next year. SL tubing is good lightweight racing tubing, it is a high end frame worthy of a restoration/upgrade to a nicer grouppo. Might be neat looking to build it up with all mavic SSC parts and some of those goofy scott road bars like Lemond used.

mmoccia

Hi

New member here so sorry if I'm jumping in at the wrong spot

I have this frame or one very much as described. I purchased it bare in 1986/7 in a Miami bike shop to replace a bent Raliegh Comp GS (1978 all 531). The BB cups were cold welded in place so I stripped it to build up a 1989 Bianchi SLX frame (all 600/Ultegra). The plan is to restore the Bottecchia and build up with Victory or C Record if I can find a group deal. I'll be asking about that in another thread, not sure how to proceed.

The tubing decal is trashed but this is one just like it. The chrome forks have a small Bottecchia crest decal on either side. I'll snap some pic's and post ASAP but I had to jump in as I've been researching the frame and am wagging my tail finding another one. Correct decal sets for the bike are availible if you are looking for them.



BB numbers are M4 3549 53 (was a tad small for me)




Mike M

mmoccia

Uploaded pics

Bianchigirll 

Hello Mmoccia, welcome to the forum. nice looking frame but I don't know much about Bottechias. what do you mean the cups are welded in place?

as for a Victory or C rec group... you might find a Victory or Triomphe groupd but if you want C Rec be ready to pay. I saw a set a few weeks ago but the price is well over $1400

I would love to see your Bianchi. there is a "Official Show your Bianchi" thread, post a few pics there.
https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...Bianchi-thread

mmoccia

Cold Siezed maybe? The cups were reassembled without enough thread grease and then went through a period of low maintenance while my knees recoved from 23 year+ adventure training in the military. When we went to repack them they had siezed up beyond the scope of mere mortal bench tools. Had to take it to an angry Italian up in Philly. Now I owe him.

Leason learned and never to forget, that Bottecchia was, and will be again, a great ride. A daily commuter for 4 years, tons of MS rides, and a few centuries. Must......rebuild.....the Bott.....

Posting the new Bianchi build

Mike M

wallymann

this is the Bottecchia Team ADR model, circa 1990 to commemmorate LeMond's '89 come-from-behind TdF victory. it's the mid-level SL/SP bike, based on the chrome chainstay and fork. i have the same frame in the same size. the higher-end SLX/SPX model had a fully-chromed rear triangle. the lower-end models (CROMOR? GARA?) had no exposed chrome at all. there are also "tweener" models at each level with internal top-tube cable routing, which is what i have.