Bicycling licenses required for DRIVERS!
#27
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What I want and what is fair protection under the law aren't the same things. If a person is unable to pass a driver's test, then they are unable to pass a driver's test.
You can drive a car with no sense of balance. You can't bike 2 feet that way. So now that has been pointed out, let's hear how you guys have this simple, painless plan for an extensive medical exception guideline allowing people who can't safely ride a bike to get a driver's license anyway.
You can drive a car with no sense of balance. You can't bike 2 feet that way. So now that has been pointed out, let's hear how you guys have this simple, painless plan for an extensive medical exception guideline allowing people who can't safely ride a bike to get a driver's license anyway.
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Insane.
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So you want exceptions for MOST of the able bodied public based on a tiny example. Gee, last time I checked MOST cars were not drivable by people with no legs... so do we need to enable all cars too... or do you want to continue down this slope of absurd.
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The absurd thing (aside from you not knowing that) is the complex system of exceptions required when you force people - especially non-able bodied people - to prove to the government that they are unfit for physical activity. The most comparable system is the draft board.
And all for a ridiculous, unproven and possibly completely useless program that is unlikely to change the accident rates at all. Because drivers don't hit cyclists because they don't care, they hit them because they don't see them. Making people ride bikes isn't going to raise America into a higher level of consciousness, it will probably just give more people reason to hate cyclists for forcing them to do something pointless just to get a driver's license.
We could also put everyone through clown college, and I guarantee that clowns won't get more popular.
Last edited by Kontact; 07-14-18 at 11:24 PM.
#31
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All the people with no legs that drive cars have cars that can be driven with no legs.
The absurd thing (aside from you not knowing that) is the complex system of exceptions required when you force people - especially non-able bodied people - to prove to the government that they are unfit for physical activity. The most comparable system is the draft board.
And all for a ridiculous, unproven and possibly completely useless program that is unlikely to change the accident rates at all. Because drivers don't hit cyclists because they don't care, they hit them because they don't see them. Making people ride bikes isn't going to raise America into a higher level of consciousness, it will probably just give more people reason to hate cyclists for forcing them to do something pointless just to get a driver's license.
We could also put everyone through clown college, and I guarantee that clowns won't get more popular.
The absurd thing (aside from you not knowing that) is the complex system of exceptions required when you force people - especially non-able bodied people - to prove to the government that they are unfit for physical activity. The most comparable system is the draft board.
And all for a ridiculous, unproven and possibly completely useless program that is unlikely to change the accident rates at all. Because drivers don't hit cyclists because they don't care, they hit them because they don't see them. Making people ride bikes isn't going to raise America into a higher level of consciousness, it will probably just give more people reason to hate cyclists for forcing them to do something pointless just to get a driver's license.
We could also put everyone through clown college, and I guarantee that clowns won't get more popular.
First, incorporate driver training/drivers ed into a program in our public school system... just as it was when I went to school in Texas in the early '70s. This should be no less a requirement than any other subject like history or math or english. Driving or public road use is something most American adults do daily... we should train for it.
Second, ensure rules of the road for all road users is emphasized and taught, as well as the history and ethics involved. (IE, motorists do not own the road...etc )
Third, encourage cycling to school, and as a PE subject, like swmming or golf.
Fourth, "exceptions" as you mention, can be handled by the DMV, on a case by case basis; and license is or is not issued... this is just how things are done right now.
In doing all the above, training becomes a prerequisite for a license, just as are certain classes are required to graduate. And exceptions are handled by the DMV, just as it now occurs.
There, all laid out.
Of course if self driving cars ever do become reality... then driving class becomes a mere "elective."
#32
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Now, let's tone down the rhetoric a bit and examine a few realistic ideas.
First, incorporate driver training/drivers ed into a program in our public school system... just as it was when I went to school in Texas in the early '70s. This should be no less a requirement than any other subject like history or math or english. Driving or public road use is something most American adults do daily... we should train for it.
Second, ensure rules of the road for all road users is emphasized and taught, as well as the history and ethics involved. (IE, motorists do not own the road...etc )
Third, encourage cycling to school, and as a PE subject, like swmming or golf.
Fourth, "exceptions" as you mention, can be handled by the DMV, on a case by case basis; and license is or is not issued... this is just how things are done right now.
In doing all the above, training becomes a prerequisite for a license, just as are certain classes are required to graduate. And exceptions are handled by the DMV, just as it now occurs.
There, all laid out.
Of course if self driving cars ever do become reality... then driving class becomes a mere "elective."
First, incorporate driver training/drivers ed into a program in our public school system... just as it was when I went to school in Texas in the early '70s. This should be no less a requirement than any other subject like history or math or english. Driving or public road use is something most American adults do daily... we should train for it.
Second, ensure rules of the road for all road users is emphasized and taught, as well as the history and ethics involved. (IE, motorists do not own the road...etc )
Third, encourage cycling to school, and as a PE subject, like swmming or golf.
Fourth, "exceptions" as you mention, can be handled by the DMV, on a case by case basis; and license is or is not issued... this is just how things are done right now.
In doing all the above, training becomes a prerequisite for a license, just as are certain classes are required to graduate. And exceptions are handled by the DMV, just as it now occurs.
There, all laid out.
Of course if self driving cars ever do become reality... then driving class becomes a mere "elective."
#33
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Etrikes are also available.
#34
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All the people with no legs that drive cars have cars that can be driven with no legs.
The absurd thing (aside from you not knowing that) is the complex system of exceptions required when you force people - especially non-able bodied people - to prove to the government that they are unfit for physical activity. The most comparable system is the draft board.
And all for a ridiculous, unproven and possibly completely useless program that is unlikely to change the accident rates at all. Because drivers don't hit cyclists because they don't care, they hit them because they don't see them.
The absurd thing (aside from you not knowing that) is the complex system of exceptions required when you force people - especially non-able bodied people - to prove to the government that they are unfit for physical activity. The most comparable system is the draft board.
And all for a ridiculous, unproven and possibly completely useless program that is unlikely to change the accident rates at all. Because drivers don't hit cyclists because they don't care, they hit them because they don't see them.
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#36
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Until a few years ago, the only mention of a bicycle in the driver's handbook that new drivers had to learn in order to pass the written exam was that bicycle riders must ride in the same direction as cars, not facing traffic.
I would estimate that 80% of drivers on the road did not have much more info than that when they studied for the exam.
They don't know about looking before opening car doors, safe distances, etc.
They do know that there are hot-rod cyclists like city couriers they see on movies and brand a lot of cyclists accordingly.
While the original poster and others have some good ideas for new drivers, they don't address the 80% (or more) who are currently driving.
What I would like to see is some serious cycling safety issues presented in TV ads, driver's insurance renewal forms, license renewal, social media, and news articles.
Having said that, for many drivers it has been a long time since they knew all the rules of the road.
They also have trouble with traffic circles, 4-way stops, zipper merging, hwy merging, and a few other newer procedures.
Very little is given to them to help them drive safely.
That's why I think there should be a concerted effort to continue teaching them the rules of the road.
Once any professional (doctor, lawyer, teacher) graduates, he continues to learn the latest info or else he is obsolete. -- Same goes for drivers.
I would estimate that 80% of drivers on the road did not have much more info than that when they studied for the exam.
They don't know about looking before opening car doors, safe distances, etc.
They do know that there are hot-rod cyclists like city couriers they see on movies and brand a lot of cyclists accordingly.
While the original poster and others have some good ideas for new drivers, they don't address the 80% (or more) who are currently driving.
What I would like to see is some serious cycling safety issues presented in TV ads, driver's insurance renewal forms, license renewal, social media, and news articles.
Having said that, for many drivers it has been a long time since they knew all the rules of the road.
They also have trouble with traffic circles, 4-way stops, zipper merging, hwy merging, and a few other newer procedures.
Very little is given to them to help them drive safely.
That's why I think there should be a concerted effort to continue teaching them the rules of the road.
Once any professional (doctor, lawyer, teacher) graduates, he continues to learn the latest info or else he is obsolete. -- Same goes for drivers.
#38
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I drive a four-wheel motorized vehicle. Used to ride motor cycles. Have been riding bicycles most of my life, and have not been involved in any accidents while on a cycle.
At least a dozen of my friends and acquaintances have been hurt in car-bike (of both kinds) accidents. One even died in his accident.
Without exception the responsibility for the accidents was shared by car driver and bike rider. This observation is based on conversations with the riders after the accidents. In the case of the death, the police report, based on three witnesses, stated the (motor) cycle rider was at fault for excessive speed and failure to control his ride.
My experience is not your experience, but coulda', woulda', shoulda' goes both ways.
At least a dozen of my friends and acquaintances have been hurt in car-bike (of both kinds) accidents. One even died in his accident.
Without exception the responsibility for the accidents was shared by car driver and bike rider. This observation is based on conversations with the riders after the accidents. In the case of the death, the police report, based on three witnesses, stated the (motor) cycle rider was at fault for excessive speed and failure to control his ride.
My experience is not your experience, but coulda', woulda', shoulda' goes both ways.
#39
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Until a few years ago, the only mention of a bicycle in the driver's handbook that new drivers had to learn in order to pass the written exam was that bicycle riders must ride in the same direction as cars, not facing traffic.
I would estimate that 80% of drivers on the road did not have much more info than that when they studied for the exam.
They don't know about looking before opening car doors, safe distances, etc.
They do know that there are hot-rod cyclists like city couriers they see on movies and brand a lot of cyclists accordingly.
While the original poster and others have some good ideas for new drivers, they don't address the 80% (or more) who are currently driving.
What I would like to see is some serious cycling safety issues presented in TV ads, driver's insurance renewal forms, license renewal, social media, and news articles.
Having said that, for many drivers it has been a long time since they knew all the rules of the road.
They also have trouble with traffic circles, 4-way stops, zipper merging, hwy merging, and a few other newer procedures.
Very little is given to them to help them drive safely.
That's why I think there should be a concerted effort to continue teaching them the rules of the road.
Once any professional (doctor, lawyer, teacher) graduates, he continues to learn the latest info or else he is obsolete. -- Same goes for drivers.
I would estimate that 80% of drivers on the road did not have much more info than that when they studied for the exam.
They don't know about looking before opening car doors, safe distances, etc.
They do know that there are hot-rod cyclists like city couriers they see on movies and brand a lot of cyclists accordingly.
While the original poster and others have some good ideas for new drivers, they don't address the 80% (or more) who are currently driving.
What I would like to see is some serious cycling safety issues presented in TV ads, driver's insurance renewal forms, license renewal, social media, and news articles.
Having said that, for many drivers it has been a long time since they knew all the rules of the road.
They also have trouble with traffic circles, 4-way stops, zipper merging, hwy merging, and a few other newer procedures.
Very little is given to them to help them drive safely.
That's why I think there should be a concerted effort to continue teaching them the rules of the road.
Once any professional (doctor, lawyer, teacher) graduates, he continues to learn the latest info or else he is obsolete. -- Same goes for drivers.
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The same people who will pay and be responsible for the bicycle training programs to be instituted throughout the land in order to satisfy the pipe dreams of a handful of anti-motorist zealots.
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And we've reached LCF-vana. OM.
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If you think it’s dumb, you can say so. That’s fine, but don’t try to prevent anyone else from discussing it by trolling everyone who comments. Contribute something or ignore it.
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The current driver education regiment is woefully inadequate, as is ongoing driver testing. Roads would likely be much safer with a comprehensive road user education for all road users every 5 years or so, instead of just applying for license renewal online and getting rubber-stamped for a new card.
Last edited by LesterOfPuppets; 07-15-18 at 07:47 PM.
#45
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I'm not anti-motorist, but I am pro-enhanced-road-user-education.
The current driver education regiment is woefully inadequate, as is ongoing driver testing. Roads would likely be much safer with a comprehensive road user education for all road users every 5 years or so, instead of just applying for license renewal online and getting rubber-stamped for a new card.
The current driver education regiment is woefully inadequate, as is ongoing driver testing. Roads would likely be much safer with a comprehensive road user education for all road users every 5 years or so, instead of just applying for license renewal online and getting rubber-stamped for a new card.
Or is this just one of things that is "common sense"?
#47
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How about an automatic, mandatory 90 day driver's license suspension for any auto accident involving injury to a pedestrian or cyclist with zero exceptions? That would be possible and certainly improve things a lot.
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When I thought about actually asking people to get on a bike in my community, I immediately dismissed it because some of them were sure to get hit, and either injured or killed. But, I do think there would be no better way to get drivers to understand.
However, as was just said, drivers’ education and testing is inadequate when it comes to cyclists and pedestrians. Driving around bicycles and pedestrians is a necessary skill for any driver. Requiring some skill or knowledge would make them more comfortable doing it. By giving them essentially nothing, a clear message is sent that dealing with bicycles and pedestrians is not a part of driving. So it makes sense that they should be upset when they see you, and that they would do stupid things. Safe bicyle riding is another matter that should be discussed, but the larger danger comes from the tons of steel flying down the road at 60mph, not the guy on a spindly bike, wearing what is basically his underwear and a styrofoam hat.
You could have questions incuded in the regular exam. Put more in the instruction book. Have them play a video game. Anything. Ignoring it isn’t really an option.
However, as was just said, drivers’ education and testing is inadequate when it comes to cyclists and pedestrians. Driving around bicycles and pedestrians is a necessary skill for any driver. Requiring some skill or knowledge would make them more comfortable doing it. By giving them essentially nothing, a clear message is sent that dealing with bicycles and pedestrians is not a part of driving. So it makes sense that they should be upset when they see you, and that they would do stupid things. Safe bicyle riding is another matter that should be discussed, but the larger danger comes from the tons of steel flying down the road at 60mph, not the guy on a spindly bike, wearing what is basically his underwear and a styrofoam hat.
You could have questions incuded in the regular exam. Put more in the instruction book. Have them play a video game. Anything. Ignoring it isn’t really an option.
Last edited by Matt74; 07-15-18 at 09:59 PM.
#49
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I do think that some kind of law needs passed about hitting cyclists. The police are not doing their job. We shouldn’t need a law, but they won’t hold people accoutable unless they have to. Charge the cyclist too, if they were doing something illegal.