Death of VC thread
05-05-20, 10:23 AM
#3
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So your idea is to ride in a designated bike lane. Not a Forester way of thinking. Take the lane/control the lane/act like any other vehicle. I appreciate that.
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05-14-20, 06:52 AM
#5
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Well, if you have a theory that no one will use bike infrastructure if you build it, and then when they build it the number one complaint people have about bike infrastructure is it's too crowded, it gets a bit hard to keep up the debate.
05-16-20, 01:01 PM
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Cheers
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05-16-20, 06:28 PM
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Now, if the car door had been opened then people would see precisely why a door zone bicycle lane like that is so dangerous. For those who don't know, it's because an opening car door can hit your handlebar or bike or you and deflect you down and into traffic to your left. I refuse to ride in any door zone bicycle lane if there are parked vehicles next to it.
Cheers
Cheers
-mr. bill
05-16-20, 06:57 PM
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Because the camera man standing in place is extremely unlikely to run into an opening door.
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05-16-20, 07:31 PM
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NOTE, “cyclists fair best when they act as the driver of vehicles.”
Standing in the road is acting as the driver of vehicles?
Why didn’t the “camera man” take the lane?
SMH, so much drama for so little drama.
-mr. bill
Last edited by mr_bill; 05-16-20 at 08:40 PM.
05-16-20, 08:51 PM
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stupid_Motorist_Law
Yeah, not so sure cyclists should act as the drivers of motor vehicles...
Maybe JF had it backwards, considering the 30k annual death toll? Maybe "motorists fare best when they proceed with the caution of a cyclist"?
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05-16-20, 09:18 PM
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05-17-20, 12:42 AM
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Two-door cars parked next to a painted door zone bicycle lane like that are even more dangerous than the car shown in those images. That's because most doors on two-door cars are much longer and thus would project even further into the bicycle lane.
This video shows the distance needed with a four-doorr car.
This video is apparently with a two-door car.
Look at how far away you need to be to be safe from a suddenly opened door.
Cheers
This video shows the distance needed with a four-doorr car.
This video is apparently with a two-door car.
Look at how far away you need to be to be safe from a suddenly opened door.
Cheers
05-17-20, 07:27 AM
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Death of VC thread
As you may be aware @livedarklions, users of the Minuteman Bikeway in Arlington, MA have reported a great increase in riders as well as diminished road auto traffic, prompting many cyclists to become "vehicles.”
I have posted to this thread, “So what's your beef with Multi-Use Pathes?”
↓↓↓↓
No new posts in over 7 months. Long live the King....the King is dead.
Yes, the Party will brook no disagreement or criticism:
All the posters here are dead or banned. LOL
So your idea is to ride in a designated bike lane. Not a Forester way of thinking. Take the lane/control the lane/act like any other vehicle. I appreciate that.
I have posted to this thread, “So what's your beef with Multi-Use Pathes?”
There was a time not all that long ago when there were no bike paths, bike lanes or dedicated "exercise paths". We have it good now, really good. I've been riding on the road since 1974. We should grateful for what we have now. Instead of complaining, form a volunteer Pathway Coalition in your area made up of riders, walkers, joggers, etc and find common ground.
Yes, it's a hassle riding on multi-use paths but that is what they are. Everyone has to get along on the same path...
Yes, it's a hassle riding on multi-use paths but that is what they are. Everyone has to get along on the same path...
Yeah we should be grateful for being 40+ years behind Europe in bike infrastructure in North America due to a guy who thought vehicular cycling was the way to go over separated cycling infrastructure.
I’m not sure who that nefarious guy is (? John Forester) but I think cycling infrastructure is possibly correlated with the age of the city prior to introduction of the automobile, so much longer in compact, recently war-ravaged European cities; and even longer in older, denser US East Coast cities with better cycling infrastructure (link), than the sprawling Midwest and West.
In any case I have previously posted:
In any case I have previously posted:
“I don't think I like physically separated bike lanes.”
As a decades-long urban commuter and road cyclist, on a societal policy basis, I was impressed by this opinion by @B. Carfree
As a decades-long urban commuter and road cyclist, on a societal policy basis, I was impressed by this opinion by @B. Carfree
…Some people, mostly people who are relatively new to cycling, think we should use the few dollars that can go towards improving conditions for cycling by building a few miles of separated infrastructure and place it mostly on urban roads (with the inevitable intersection failures).
Other, more experienced riders, think we would be better served by funding traffic law enforcement and putting in many more miles of proper, six to eight foot bike lanes (not in the door zone) and only putting in separate facilities where there are long stretches of high-speed road without appreciable numbers of intersections.
This difference of opinion wouldn't be such a big deal, but many of the segregationists have been making their public case by convincing everyone that cycling is too dangerous to be done anywhere except on a segregated facility.
Not surprisingly, this has an impact in terms of how many people are willing to even try riding a bike since there is no way to get anywhere in the US without riding on a road.
Oddly enough, these people are called and consider themselves "bicycling advocates". If one were to design a fifth-column assault to keep cycling participation down, it would look just like the pro-separation folks.
Other, more experienced riders, think we would be better served by funding traffic law enforcement and putting in many more miles of proper, six to eight foot bike lanes (not in the door zone) and only putting in separate facilities where there are long stretches of high-speed road without appreciable numbers of intersections.
This difference of opinion wouldn't be such a big deal, but many of the segregationists have been making their public case by convincing everyone that cycling is too dangerous to be done anywhere except on a segregated facility.
Not surprisingly, this has an impact in terms of how many people are willing to even try riding a bike since there is no way to get anywhere in the US without riding on a road.
Oddly enough, these people are called and consider themselves "bicycling advocates". If one were to design a fifth-column assault to keep cycling participation down, it would look just like the pro-separation folks.
Last edited by Jim from Boston; 05-17-20 at 07:49 AM.
05-17-20, 07:33 AM
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ɅɅɅɅ
PS: Pardon the lack of capitalization in the quotes, I couldn'i even edit them in..."BF just being BF." 
the take rate of cycling as a mode share for transportation has been done a significant disservice by the concept of vehicular cycling,.
i don’t need to develop this statement any further as the proof is in the pudding,.
i don’t need to develop this statement any further as the proof is in the pudding,.
"so what's your beef with multi-use pathes?"
...i posted earlier on this thread ”getting somewhere” is the essence of a vehicle, be it pleasure, touring. Utility, commuting etc (by bike) yet “vehicular cycling” on a road is derided in comparison to separated bike infrastructure.i think of vehicular cycling in a technical sense as lane positioning on the road..."take the lane." but as @b. Carfree also commented: :
historically, back in the 19th century when cycling was a new, innovative mode of transportation, advocates like the league of american wheelman were powerful enough to agitate for better roads, as multi-use pathes, with the horses and pedestrians. Then the automobile came along and new advocates could further agitate for even more and better roads, and cars became the predominant and overwhelmingly powerful users.
So now in these days i think it is unlikely that cyclists’ desire for an extensive segregated (and likely costly) bike system that serves many destinations will ever be fulfilled, unless:
...i posted earlier on this thread ”getting somewhere” is the essence of a vehicle, be it pleasure, touring. Utility, commuting etc (by bike) yet “vehicular cycling” on a road is derided in comparison to separated bike infrastructure.i think of vehicular cycling in a technical sense as lane positioning on the road..."take the lane." but as @b. Carfree also commented: :
…some people, mostly people who are relatively new to cycling, think we should use the few dollars that can go towards improving conditions for cycling by building a few miles of separated infrastructure and place it mostly on urban roads (with the inevitable intersection failures and slower user mishaps (link).
So now in these days i think it is unlikely that cyclists’ desire for an extensive segregated (and likely costly) bike system that serves many destinations will ever be fulfilled, unless:
Last edited by Jim from Boston; 05-17-20 at 07:52 AM.
05-17-20, 09:55 AM
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Two-door cars parked next to a painted door zone bicycle lane like that are even more dangerous than the car shown in those images. That's because most doors on two-door cars are much longer and thus would project even further into the bicycle lane.
This video shows the distance needed with a four-doorr car.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPA-ZcYGT94&t=66s
This video is apparently with a two-door car.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlOnnDvr9Uw
Look at how far away you need to be to be safe from a suddenly opened door.
Cheers
This video shows the distance needed with a four-doorr car.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPA-ZcYGT94&t=66s
This video is apparently with a two-door car.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlOnnDvr9Uw
Look at how far away you need to be to be safe from a suddenly opened door.
Cheers
But they ARE talking about maintaining a 12-13 foot distance from parked cars... Where does that put you in a typical travel lane that doesn't have a bike lane? Right about in the grease stripe.
If I am on a road that does not have a bike lane, yet still has cars parked along the side... I tend to ride in the right tire track. That right tire track is often suggested as a "good" place to ride... yet here we see that is not the case. And yes, if a driver throws open a car door on a street like I have described, that door will be taken off by a passing car.
So, do we ride instead in the left tire track? Well, that is often seen as a signal that we intend to move more to the left.
I have no solution... I just offer these comments as a taste of the reality of the roads today.
05-17-20, 10:12 AM
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So here's the thing... they were not showing this on a street with typical tire tracks... So it becomes a bit difficult to verify this in their video format...
But they ARE talking about maintaining a 12-13 foot distance from parked cars... Where does that put you in a typical travel lane that doesn't have a bike lane? Right about in the grease stripe.
If I am on a road that does not have a bike lane, yet still has cars parked along the side... I tend to ride in the right tire track. That right tire track is often suggested as a "good" place to ride... yet here we see that is not the case. And yes, if a driver throws open a car door on a street like I have described, that door will be taken off by a passing car.
So, do we ride instead in the left tire track? Well, that is often seen as a signal that we intend to move more to the left.
I have no solution... I just offer these comments as a taste of the reality of the roads today.
But they ARE talking about maintaining a 12-13 foot distance from parked cars... Where does that put you in a typical travel lane that doesn't have a bike lane? Right about in the grease stripe.
If I am on a road that does not have a bike lane, yet still has cars parked along the side... I tend to ride in the right tire track. That right tire track is often suggested as a "good" place to ride... yet here we see that is not the case. And yes, if a driver throws open a car door on a street like I have described, that door will be taken off by a passing car.
So, do we ride instead in the left tire track? Well, that is often seen as a signal that we intend to move more to the left.
I have no solution... I just offer these comments as a taste of the reality of the roads today.
Cheers
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05-17-20, 11:23 AM
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I posted the links to those two videos primarily to show how dangerous a door zone bicycle lane is. When I'm riding in traffic I simply make sure that I'm NOT riding ina door zone. I figure that I just need to be outside the area/arc that a suddenly opened door would occupy. I've never bothered to stop and measure that distance but I doubt it's 12 - 13 feet.
Cheers
Cheers
05-17-20, 12:48 PM
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Mr. 14 Feet from the curb is why VC died.
Believe it or not, that wasn’t enough for many militant VCers, who upped the ante to 17 feet.
When the horse you rode in on is dead....
-mr. bill
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05-18-20, 07:34 AM
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I posted the links to those two videos primarily to show how dangerous a door zone bicycle lane is. When I'm riding in traffic I simply make sure that I'm NOT riding ina door zone.
I figure that I just need to be outside the area/arc that a suddenly opened door would occupy. I've never bothered to stop and measure that distance but I doubt it's 12 - 13 feet.
Cheers
I figure that I just need to be outside the area/arc that a suddenly opened door would occupy. I've never bothered to stop and measure that distance but I doubt it's 12 - 13 feet.
Cheers
Hi Everyone!
I'm a long-time bike commuter who has started a YouTube channel that's about bike commuting. I'm going to initially be making videos for newbies and beginners who are thinking about bike commuting. Content such as
But for you long time commuters...is there any content that you would be genuinely interested in watching that is related to bike commuting? Maybe short interviews of bike commuters and their experience?
Looking for help and suggestions! Thanks
I'm a long-time bike commuter who has started a YouTube channel that's about bike commuting. I'm going to initially be making videos for newbies and beginners who are thinking about bike commuting. Content such as
- what type of bike do I need for bike commuting?
- is bike commuting safe?
But for you long time commuters...is there any content that you would be genuinely interested in watching that is related to bike commuting? Maybe short interviews of bike commuters and their experience?
Looking for help and suggestions! Thanks
@Paul Barnard asked this question, “Has A&S Changed Your Behavior?” So in answer to what I think would be sobering yet important messages to commuters would be videos of dangerous situations such as...:
https://www.theage.com.au/national/v...318-34zr2.html
I frequently post this basic rule for me, ”Consider every stopped car like a weapon, loaded, with an occupant ready to exit, on either side." For example I think about that when filtering between cars stopped at a traffic light.
When I have had doors opened directly before me, I have found a scream causes the person to immediately retract back into the car like a turtle into its shell.
For a real vicarious thrill of dooring, see this video
When I have had doors opened directly before me, I have found a scream causes the person to immediately retract back into the car like a turtle into its shell.
For a real vicarious thrill of dooring, see this video
Last edited by Jim from Boston; 05-18-20 at 07:54 AM.
05-18-20, 07:35 AM
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I have previously posted to this thread:
I have previously posted to this thread:
"Cheering on New Bike Lanes...".
There is a current thread on the A&S forum, “I almost got doored - yet most drivers blame me. How do we improve car culture?,” with a big brouhaha about riding along parked cars… do or don’t; be watchful, or install new technology in cars.
I was mindful of that thread when two days ago I rode my bike from downtown Boston South Station (Railroad), about five miles out to the Brighton neighborhood. The first quarter mile is through a dense commercial maze with heavy auto and pedestrian traffic, then less than a quarter mile on car-free Boston Common.
Next was about a mile on one-way Beacon Street with parked cars on both sides. That used to be a hazardous ride IMO until a while back this bike lane was installed, safe from traffic, but still beset with more predictable hazards of intersections, pedestrians, salmoning cyclists, but with a buffer zone from opening passenger side doors.
Then a short segment through Kenmore Square to Commonwealth Avenue (“Comm Ave”), with a prominent presence of Boston University with a heavy cycling population, as well as a commercial thoroughfare. It is in the vicinity of a few cycling fatalities in the recent years.
Much to my delight I found this new, beautiful separate bike lane with a similar one on the opposite side.
The last mile of my trip was on a typical bike lane I thought was wide enough to comfortably accommodate riding on the left side to avoid sudden door openings.
Later on my return trip, cycling traffic was heavier, and the faster cyclists did use the auto travel lane, but traffic is calmed by fairly closely spaced traffic signals.
There is a current thread on the A&S forum, “I almost got doored - yet most drivers blame me. How do we improve car culture?,” with a big brouhaha about riding along parked cars… do or don’t; be watchful, or install new technology in cars.
I was mindful of that thread when two days ago I rode my bike from downtown Boston South Station (Railroad), about five miles out to the Brighton neighborhood. The first quarter mile is through a dense commercial maze with heavy auto and pedestrian traffic, then less than a quarter mile on car-free Boston Common.
Next was about a mile on one-way Beacon Street with parked cars on both sides. That used to be a hazardous ride IMO until a while back this bike lane was installed, safe from traffic, but still beset with more predictable hazards of intersections, pedestrians, salmoning cyclists, but with a buffer zone from opening passenger side doors.
Then a short segment through Kenmore Square to Commonwealth Avenue (“Comm Ave”), with a prominent presence of Boston University with a heavy cycling population, as well as a commercial thoroughfare. It is in the vicinity of a few cycling fatalities in the recent years.
Much to my delight I found this new, beautiful separate bike lane with a similar one on the opposite side.
The last mile of my trip was on a typical bike lane I thought was wide enough to comfortably accommodate riding on the left side to avoid sudden door openings.
Later on my return trip, cycling traffic was heavier, and the faster cyclists did use the auto travel lane, but traffic is calmed by fairly closely spaced traffic signals.
Earlier this year,
So I was pleased with this progress to make cycling safer in Boston, especially since I have previously posted:
Last edited by Jim from Boston; 07-10-20 at 04:47 AM.
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05-18-20, 09:53 AM
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Haha, thanks for the modified Hot Rod Lincoln video, Jim from Boston .
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05-18-20, 10:24 AM
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Haha, thanks for the modified Hot Rod Lincoln video, Jim from Boston .
05-18-20, 10:56 AM
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05-18-20, 01:59 PM
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Here's a video that shows how far away from a car you can be and still NOT be safe from a suddenly opened car door.
This one shows what can happen if you get deflected into the traffic lane by an opening car door.
guy was lucky there were no vehicles in the lane he was knocked into.
I could post more but I'm sure you get the idea by now.
DON'T RIDE IN A DOOR ZONE! especially if there are stopped vehicles in it. Whether it's a bicycle lane or not, door zones are extremely hazardous to bicyclists.
Cheers
This one shows what can happen if you get deflected into the traffic lane by an opening car door.
guy was lucky there were no vehicles in the lane he was knocked into.
I could post more but I'm sure you get the idea by now.
DON'T RIDE IN A DOOR ZONE! especially if there are stopped vehicles in it. Whether it's a bicycle lane or not, door zones are extremely hazardous to bicyclists.
Cheers
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