Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Road Cycling
Reload this Page >

A frightening look inside of a BMC Road Machine RM01

Notices
Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

A frightening look inside of a BMC Road Machine RM01

Old 12-10-17, 08:55 PM
  #1  
chaadster
Thread Killer
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 10,723

Bikes: '15 Kinesis Racelight 4S, '76 Motebecane Gran Jubilée, '17 Dedacciai Gladiatore2, '12 Breezer Venturi, '09 Dahon Mariner, '12 Mercier Nano, '95 DeKerf Team SL, '19 Tern Rally, ‘21 Breezer Doppler Cafe+, ‘19 T Lab X3

Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1701 Post(s)
Liked 734 Times in 456 Posts
A frightening look inside of a BMC Road Machine RM01

Yikes! Leuscher Technik just posted a cut-up video of a circa 2011 BMC Road Machine and the findings are distressing:

chaadster is offline  
Old 12-10-17, 09:28 PM
  #2  
rpenmanparker 
Senior Member
 
rpenmanparker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 28,682

Bikes: 1990 Romic Reynolds 531 custom build, Merlin Works CR Ti custom build, super light Workswell 066 custom build

Mentioned: 106 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6554 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 51 Times in 33 Posts
Very informative. Scary. And it would have been useful to have shown us a really well done frame for comparison.
__________________
Robert

Originally Posted by LAJ View Post
No matter where I go, here I am...
rpenmanparker is offline  
Old 12-10-17, 09:30 PM
  #3  
cb400bill
Follow Your Arrow
 
cb400bill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Kalamazoo MI
Posts: 19,686

Bikes: Fuji SL2.1 Carbon Di2 Cannondale Synapse Alloy 4 Trek Checkpoint ALR gravel Viscount Aerospace Pro

Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2515 Post(s)
Liked 3,291 Times in 2,004 Posts
There are links in Youtube to other frames the guy cut open. Trek, Pinarello, Bianchi...
cb400bill is offline  
Old 12-10-17, 09:34 PM
  #4  
memebag
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 1,597

Bikes: 2017 Cannondale CAAD12 105, 2014 Giant Escape City

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 820 Post(s)
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
How many people did that bike kill in 6 years?
memebag is offline  
Old 12-10-17, 09:46 PM
  #5  
f4rrest
Farmer tan
 
f4rrest's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Burbank, CA
Posts: 7,986

Bikes: Allez, SuperSix Evo

Mentioned: 38 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2870 Post(s)
Liked 26 Times in 22 Posts
Is there an edited version for those of us who don't have all night to watch?

TL;DW
f4rrest is offline  
Old 12-10-17, 10:26 PM
  #6  
chaadster
Thread Killer
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 10,723

Bikes: '15 Kinesis Racelight 4S, '76 Motebecane Gran Jubilée, '17 Dedacciai Gladiatore2, '12 Breezer Venturi, '09 Dahon Mariner, '12 Mercier Nano, '95 DeKerf Team SL, '19 Tern Rally, ‘21 Breezer Doppler Cafe+, ‘19 T Lab X3

Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1701 Post(s)
Liked 734 Times in 456 Posts
Originally Posted by memebag View Post
How many people did that bike kill in 6 years?
Well, there’s that. It’s a fair enough reminder not to get carried away, but for me, I was more surprised that the BMC build quality could be so low, if only because of the brands premium rep and pro ranks presence. If it’s not built well, what are we paying for? Styling? The geometry? Hype? For me, it’s the worst indictment of carbon fiber because it not only exposes the lack of artistry and mastery in common CF construction, it reveals low quality masquerading as high quality. I would not be happy knowing I spent good money on that.
chaadster is offline  
Old 12-10-17, 11:12 PM
  #7  
memebag
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 1,597

Bikes: 2017 Cannondale CAAD12 105, 2014 Giant Escape City

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 820 Post(s)
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
Well, there’s that. It’s a fair enough reminder not to get carried away, but for me, I was more surprised that the BMC build quality could be so low, if only because of the brands premium rep and pro ranks presence. If it’s not built well, what are we paying for? Styling? The geometry? Hype? For me, it’s the worst indictment of carbon fiber because it not only exposes the lack of artistry and mastery in common CF construction, it reveals low quality masquerading as high quality. I would not be happy knowing I spent good money on that.
Maybe. Or maybe it doesn't matter if the insides are wrinkled. How did the bike ride? Was it fun to ride? Or was it horrible? Did it assplode a lot?
memebag is offline  
Old 12-10-17, 11:24 PM
  #8  
SethAZ 
Senior Member
 
SethAZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,394

Bikes: 2018 Lynskey R260, 2005 Diamondback 29er, 2003 Trek 2300

Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 564 Post(s)
Liked 333 Times in 181 Posts
I took a quick look at several other of his videos including some more frame cutups and a carbon wheel cutup. They all have lots of the same kinds of ugly things that are in the BMC cutup, though admittedly the BMC one just looks uglier. I guess the bottom line is that these things are laid up in a mold and then have compressed air blown into a baggy inside that presses the carbon fiber prepreg up against the mould. The process will make a nice looking appearance on the outside, but on the inside it's not going to be pretty. Lots of those videos show extra resin that's been squeezed up out of the prepreg and then hardened. It's probably a little better that it have a little more resin than it needs to completely filled the laminate, and have the excess squeezed out, than have places without enough resin and end up with voids or weak laminate. I'm no CF engineer so that's just my opinion looking at this.

But just remember these manufacturing processes are designed to make the bike functional and look good on the outside. You guys are looking at the man behind the curtain a little here. I'll assume that the products are actually OK until someone shows specific example of actual flaws in there with evidence supporting that that flaw will in fact lead to premature breakage, asploding, or whatever.
SethAZ is offline  
Old 12-11-17, 12:13 AM
  #9  
Racing Dan
Senior Member
 
Racing Dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,897
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1094 Post(s)
Liked 186 Times in 127 Posts
Its not a question of the inside being "pretty" or not. The BMC had lots actual manufacturing defects. Including sanding too much, uneven wall thickness, wrinkling of the material and big voids in the laminate. That IMO indicates inadequate QC (or possibly they just dont care) and simply lack of skill. Is BMC even a real bike company or do they sell boxes build by some one else?

Imo not all of the other bikes are like that. Some maybe, but look at the Trek Emonda SL for instance. Much better execution.

Racing Dan is offline  
Old 12-11-17, 12:33 AM
  #10  
Doctor Morbius
Interocitor Command
 
Doctor Morbius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: The adult video section
Posts: 3,378

Bikes: 3 Road Bikes, 2 Hybrids

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 596 Post(s)
Liked 62 Times in 38 Posts
Wow. I think I'd rather take my chances with a Dung-Pu than with a BMC now.
Doctor Morbius is offline  
Old 12-11-17, 12:33 AM
  #11  
79pmooney
A Roadie Forever
 
79pmooney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 9,667

Bikes: (2) ti TiCycles, 2007 w/ triple and 2011 fixed, 1979 Peter Mooney, ~1983 Trek 420 now fixed and ~1973 Raleigh Carlton Competition gravel grinder

Mentioned: 103 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2989 Post(s)
Liked 1,587 Times in 1,051 Posts
Originally Posted by SethAZ View Post
I took a quick look at several other of his videos including some more frame cutups and a carbon wheel cutup. They all have lots of the same kinds of ugly things that are in the BMC cutup, though admittedly the BMC one just looks uglier. I guess the bottom line is that these things are laid up in a mold and then have compressed air blown into a baggy inside that presses the carbon fiber prepreg up against the mould. The process will make a nice looking appearance on the outside, but on the inside it's not going to be pretty. Lots of those videos show extra resin that's been squeezed up out of the prepreg and then hardened. It's probably a little better that it have a little more resin than it needs to completely filled the laminate, and have the excess squeezed out, than have places without enough resin and end up with voids or weak laminate. I'm no CF engineer so that's just my opinion looking at this.

But just remember these manufacturing processes are designed to make the bike functional and look good on the outside. You guys are looking at the man behind the curtain a little here. I'll assume that the products are actually OK until someone shows specific example of actual flaws in there with evidence supporting that that flaw will in fact lead to premature breakage, asploding, or whatever.
Seth, vacuum bagging can be done that leaves a clean laminate surface, but it takes skill and attention. (I used to build boats. We did far bigger vacuum jobs. I've also sailed those boats in situations where my life was dependent on those boats holding together. I developed a simple philosophy - I will only go to sea on good boats by design, cared for, readied responsibly to go to sea and with good sailors. I am not as fastidious about bikes, but a real part of that philosophy overlaps into what bicycles I will own. And they will never be female mold plastic.

Not all shoddy workmanship is carbon fiber. I bought an old 531 Raleigh. Loved its ride, especially off pavement. But I didn't trust its workmanship so I had a local framebuilder send it to have the pain stripped, then inspect it. It seemed to have missed the brazing step when it was made. He did a lot of work to make it a good, trustworthy bike. It now passes the test I used to use for boats.

Ben
79pmooney is offline  
Old 12-11-17, 05:03 AM
  #12  
kbarch
Senior Member
 
kbarch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 4,286
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1096 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Regardless of whether there's any real risk or difference in serviceability, this is why I'd like my next CF frame to be assembled from tubes. Visited the Casati workshop last May and saw what they worked with - beautiful materials, meticulously assembled. A finished bike from such a workshop is like a Brioni suit compared to the pair of sweats that some CF bikes are.
kbarch is offline  
Old 12-11-17, 05:17 AM
  #13  
znomit
Zoom zoom zoom zoom bonk
 
znomit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 4,336

Bikes: Giant Defy, Trek 1.7c, BMC GF02, Fuji Tahoe, Scott Sub 35

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 422 Post(s)
Liked 491 Times in 248 Posts
Hmmmm....

znomit is offline  
Old 12-11-17, 05:26 AM
  #14  
trailangel
Senior Member
 
trailangel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Pasadena, CA
Posts: 4,689

Bikes: Schwinn Varsity

Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1804 Post(s)
Liked 583 Times in 344 Posts
^^ I guess BMC doesn't have a cinematographer that knows anything about lighting either, judging from that Youtube video.
trailangel is offline  
Old 12-11-17, 05:26 AM
  #15  
chaadster
Thread Killer
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 10,723

Bikes: '15 Kinesis Racelight 4S, '76 Motebecane Gran Jubilée, '17 Dedacciai Gladiatore2, '12 Breezer Venturi, '09 Dahon Mariner, '12 Mercier Nano, '95 DeKerf Team SL, '19 Tern Rally, ‘21 Breezer Doppler Cafe+, ‘19 T Lab X3

Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1701 Post(s)
Liked 734 Times in 456 Posts
Originally Posted by Racing Dan View Post
Its not a question of the inside being "pretty" or not. The BMC had lots actual manufacturing defects. Including sanding too much, uneven wall thickness, wrinkling of the material and big voids in the laminate. That IMO indicates inadequate QC (or possibly they just dont care) and simply lack of skill. Is BMC even a real bike company or do they sell boxes build by some one else?

Imo not all of the other bikes are like that. Some maybe, but look at the Trek Emonda SL for instance. Much better execution.

https://youtu.be/kJl5V_KTRzc
Exactly.

Furthermore, I think several people don’t understand that this frame has particularly bad quality issues. Yes, most bikes using this construction will exhibit some of these imperfections, but it’s rare to see so many and to such an extent. Raoul himself expressed incredulity and disappointment inspecting this bike.

A question I have is whether this BMC could be a counterfeit. I’ll add that question to the video comments (if it’s not been asked yet) and see if he has any thoughts on the possibility.
chaadster is offline  
Old 12-11-17, 05:33 AM
  #16  
chaadster
Thread Killer
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 10,723

Bikes: '15 Kinesis Racelight 4S, '76 Motebecane Gran Jubilée, '17 Dedacciai Gladiatore2, '12 Breezer Venturi, '09 Dahon Mariner, '12 Mercier Nano, '95 DeKerf Team SL, '19 Tern Rally, ‘21 Breezer Doppler Cafe+, ‘19 T Lab X3

Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1701 Post(s)
Liked 734 Times in 456 Posts
Originally Posted by znomit View Post
Impec is not what we’re talking about here...except that Impec was created to address exactly the problems of QC the RM 01 displays.
chaadster is offline  
Old 12-11-17, 06:39 AM
  #17  
rpenmanparker 
Senior Member
 
rpenmanparker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 28,682

Bikes: 1990 Romic Reynolds 531 custom build, Merlin Works CR Ti custom build, super light Workswell 066 custom build

Mentioned: 106 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6554 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 51 Times in 33 Posts
Originally Posted by kbarch View Post
Regardless of whether there's any real risk or difference in serviceability, this is why I'd like my next CF frame to be assembled from tubes. Visited the Casati workshop last May and saw what they worked with - beautiful materials, meticulously assembled. A finished bike from such a workshop is like a Brioni suit compared to the pair of sweats that some CF bikes are.
Interesting take. Did you see tubes and lugs cut open to show how consistently they were laid up, compressed and cured? Did you see a finished frame cut open to show how uniformly the tubes were bonded to the lugs?
__________________
Robert

Originally Posted by LAJ View Post
No matter where I go, here I am...
rpenmanparker is offline  
Old 12-11-17, 06:43 AM
  #18  
BillyD
Administrator
 
BillyD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Hudson Valley, NY
Posts: 29,536

Bikes: Merlin Cyrene '04; Bridgestone RB-1 '92

Mentioned: 307 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9136 Post(s)
Liked 2,832 Times in 1,608 Posts
Originally Posted by Doctor Morbius View Post
Wow. I think I'd rather take my chances with a Dung-Pu than with a BMC now.
I think I'd rather take my chances with metal.
__________________
See, this is why we can't have nice things. - - smarkinson
Where else but the internet can a bunch of cyclists go and be the tough guy? - - jdon
BillyD is offline  
Likes For BillyD:
Old 12-11-17, 06:58 AM
  #19  
memebag
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 1,597

Bikes: 2017 Cannondale CAAD12 105, 2014 Giant Escape City

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 820 Post(s)
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
Exactly.

Furthermore, I think several people don’t understand that this frame has particularly bad quality issues. Yes, most bikes using this construction will exhibit some of these imperfections, but it’s rare to see so many and to such an extent. Raoul himself expressed incredulity and disappointment inspecting this bike.

A question I have is whether this BMC could be a counterfeit. I’ll add that question to the video comments (if it’s not been asked yet) and see if he has any thoughts on the possibility.
The questions I have are:

1. How many miles was this bike ridden?
2. Did it fail during those miles?

If it provided a good ride for some large number of miles then I have to conclude that these defects and/or irregularities weren't important in this case.

If you cut me open you'll see a bunch of wrinkles and voids, too.
memebag is offline  
Old 12-11-17, 07:18 AM
  #20  
kbarch
Senior Member
 
kbarch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 4,286
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1096 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
Interesting take. Did you see tubes and lugs cut open to show how consistently they were laid up, compressed and cured? Did you see a finished frame cut open to show how uniformly the tubes were bonded to the lugs?
I saw the loose, individual tubes before they were assembled, which were absolutely perfect - I don't know how they are made (not at their shop), but they looked as smooth and uniform as extrusions, inside and out.

The connections aren't lugged in the conventional way: funny as it sounds, it's more like they are glued and taped together. The ends are precisely cut, prepped, then joined and taped over with carbon fiber fabric. We saw connections in varying stages of completion, and amazingly the finished product was so carefully executed that one can finish it with a clear coat - it all looked like one continuous weave. Sublime.

The nice thing is, although they are expensive, they are not extraordinarily so. Because they are assembled from cut tubes, made to measure is a no-brainer, and less expensive than (or at least competitive with) higher-end off-the-rack frames.
kbarch is offline  
Old 12-11-17, 07:39 AM
  #21  
chaadster
Thread Killer
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 10,723

Bikes: '15 Kinesis Racelight 4S, '76 Motebecane Gran Jubilée, '17 Dedacciai Gladiatore2, '12 Breezer Venturi, '09 Dahon Mariner, '12 Mercier Nano, '95 DeKerf Team SL, '19 Tern Rally, ‘21 Breezer Doppler Cafe+, ‘19 T Lab X3

Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1701 Post(s)
Liked 734 Times in 456 Posts
Originally Posted by memebag View Post
The questions I have are:

1. How many miles was this bike ridden?
2. Did it fail during those miles?

If it provided a good ride for some large number of miles then I have to conclude that these defects and/or irregularities weren't important in this case.

If you cut me open you'll see a bunch of wrinkles and voids, too.
Totally valid questions, the answers to which I’d like to know myself. It did wind up at Luescher Teknik, though, and went through ultrasonic examination before the cutup, so the odds are there was a suspicion of damage.

However, the answers to the questions you propose are immaterial to the issue of quality production and workmanship. It should go without saying that the bike was obviously not built to design specs, as no one designs-in integrity compromising voids, material folds, inufficient compaction, or improper lamination. One may design to accommodate variances in production accuracy, but that is exactly the essence of quality.

This is not a quality made frame, regardless of mileage or any possible failure.
chaadster is offline  
Old 12-11-17, 07:52 AM
  #22  
chaadster
Thread Killer
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 10,723

Bikes: '15 Kinesis Racelight 4S, '76 Motebecane Gran Jubilée, '17 Dedacciai Gladiatore2, '12 Breezer Venturi, '09 Dahon Mariner, '12 Mercier Nano, '95 DeKerf Team SL, '19 Tern Rally, ‘21 Breezer Doppler Cafe+, ‘19 T Lab X3

Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1701 Post(s)
Liked 734 Times in 456 Posts
Originally Posted by kbarch View Post
I saw the loose, individual tubes before they were assembled, which were absolutely perfect - I don't know how they are made (not at their shop), but they looked as smooth and uniform as extrusions, inside and out.

The connections aren't lugged in the conventional way: funny as it sounds, it's more like they are glued and taped together. The ends are precisely cut, prepped, then joined and taped over with carbon fiber fabric. We saw connections in varying stages of completion, and amazingly the finished product was so carefully executed that one can finish it with a clear coat - it all looked like one continuous weave. Sublime.

The nice thing is, although they are expensive, they are not extraordinarily so. Because they are assembled from cut tubes, made to measure is a no-brainer, and less expensive than (or at least competitive with) higher-end off-the-rack frames.
This sounds like the same production method used by Sarto and Titici in Italy, and also Crumpton in the USA. It's a method which produces a slightly heavier frame than bladder monocoque construction, but avoids many of the problems of the latter.

Monocoques can be fine, of course, but to be really good they have to be done right. Probably a lot of the freak accidents, like where my clubmate’s carbon Felt gravel bike fell over and cracked its chainstay hitting a coffee table, are exacerbated by the kinds of quality issues seen in this RM01. That’s not to say the Felt was low quality, only that conditions where material is thinner than it should be, or improperly bonded or malformed, would be expected to be less strong than it would otherwise be.
chaadster is offline  
Old 12-11-17, 08:27 AM
  #23  
ridelikeaturtle
Senior Member
 
ridelikeaturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Posts: 1,180

Bikes: Bianchi Ti Megatube; Colnago Competition; Planet-X EC-130E; Klein Pulse; Amp Research B4; Litespeed Catalyst; Fondriest Squadra Corse; Trek Y11

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 551 Post(s)
Liked 367 Times in 217 Posts
When I see a video like this one, it makes me even more smug about my titanium and steel bikes.
ridelikeaturtle is offline  
Old 12-11-17, 09:24 AM
  #24  
memebag
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 1,597

Bikes: 2017 Cannondale CAAD12 105, 2014 Giant Escape City

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 820 Post(s)
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
Totally valid questions, the answers to which I’d like to know myself. It did wind up at Luescher Teknik, though, and went through ultrasonic examination before the cutup, so the odds are there was a suspicion of damage.

However, the answers to the questions you propose are immaterial to the issue of quality production and workmanship. It should go without saying that the bike was obviously not built to design specs, as no one designs-in integrity compromising voids, material folds, inufficient compaction, or improper lamination. One may design to accommodate variances in production accuracy, but that is exactly the essence of quality.

This is not a quality made frame, regardless of mileage or any possible failure.
I don't know much about carbon fiber manufacturing (just what I see on "How It's Made", really), but my questions matter because if carbon fiber bikes can look like that inside and still perform their desired function, then looking at wrinkles and voids doesn't reveal anything useful. For all I know there are visual horrors inside my aluminum bikes, but as long as the bikes work the horrors are irrelevant.
memebag is offline  
Old 12-11-17, 09:41 AM
  #25  
chaadster
Thread Killer
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 10,723

Bikes: '15 Kinesis Racelight 4S, '76 Motebecane Gran Jubilée, '17 Dedacciai Gladiatore2, '12 Breezer Venturi, '09 Dahon Mariner, '12 Mercier Nano, '95 DeKerf Team SL, '19 Tern Rally, ‘21 Breezer Doppler Cafe+, ‘19 T Lab X3

Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1701 Post(s)
Liked 734 Times in 456 Posts
Originally Posted by memebag View Post
I don't know much about carbon fiber manufacturing (just what I see on "How It's Made", really), but my questions matter because if carbon fiber bikes can look like that inside and still perform their desired function, then looking at wrinkles and voids doesn't reveal anything useful. For all I know there are visual horrors inside my aluminum bikes, but as long as the bikes work the horrors are irrelevant.
I don't know if you don't understand quality or if you reject the idea of quality, but either way, it's a poorly defensible position to be in.

Using your example, your alu bikes "work" only under your specific conditions. What if the rider were 100kg heavier? What if the rider could spike power north of 2k watts? What if the road conditions were rougher? What if the riding was wet coastal? What if the ride volume was double? What if the conditions were any mix of those differences? Would a low build quality version of your alu bike last as long as a high quality build version?

Please don't attempt to answers those questions, because they're rhetorical, and the answers don't matter. What matters is understanding that a frame that's not as strong as it could be (because of voids, uneven material thickness, improper compaction, delamination, etc.) is not as good, though it may be serviceable.
chaadster is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.