Valuing a RestoMod Road Bike for Repair/Replacement
05-23-21, 12:24 PM
#51
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One of the two PT guys that I saw for my knee commuted on his bike to work rain or shine every day, so I'd trust him to know what it took to get my back/core back into shape. I wasn't riding at the time, so he didn't have riding specific exercises for me, but he's probably my first choice of a response.
05-24-21, 12:22 PM
#52
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You don’t get to determine the value, the insurance will pay the replacement cost, that’s what you’re entitled to. If it costs more to fix it you’re out of luck. Go on the internet and see if you can find the bike. That’s what you get.
05-24-21, 01:17 PM
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What the insurance company is not entitled to do is replace your Lamborghini with a Pinto.
Nor can they simply walk down to Walmart and pick out something that resembles a bicycle and call it good.
There is a huge part of the car world where shops will take 1960's and 1970's cars, and totally rebuild them. And then they're worth a fortune.
You can go buy a 50+ year old Lincoln... $750,000!!!!
And, if the car was to be totaled, the insurance company would be on the hook to either fix it or pay that $750K, not the value of some 50 year old Ford. Then it either goes to auction, or gets sold back to the owner.
The bike world is complex. Try to sell that bike on Craigslist or E-Bay, and you might struggle to sell it for $500 to $1000.
But, rebuild a similar bike and you'll struggle to build it for$2K. And, it is not really the cost of the build, but the cost of the parts going into the build. Again, you don't have to rebuild your totaled Lamborghini with Pinto parts.
Try to do a new replacement. There are a few companies that will make custom steel frames (64cm?). but rapidly the insurance company will choke on the costs.
And, even if the bike is a $500 to $1000 on Craigslist... you could part it out, and the wheelset... maybe $500, perhaps even more if you sell bare hubs, rims, etc. Then $500 for the frame. And, another $500 for the groupset. And, a couple hundred more for other miscellaneous parts. And a few hundred if a shop does the assembly and fitting to reassemble from parts (whether or not you do most of your repairs, you aren't required to do that).
After thinking about this, if it was me, I'd probably ask for about $1000 to $1200 + keep bike.
I liked to a 32h G3 Powertap hub above for $295. Perhaps $300 for new rims and spokes. And, the equivalent of a couple hundred to repair the frame (still cheaper than replacing).
Nor can they simply walk down to Walmart and pick out something that resembles a bicycle and call it good.
There is a huge part of the car world where shops will take 1960's and 1970's cars, and totally rebuild them. And then they're worth a fortune.
You can go buy a 50+ year old Lincoln... $750,000!!!!
And, if the car was to be totaled, the insurance company would be on the hook to either fix it or pay that $750K, not the value of some 50 year old Ford. Then it either goes to auction, or gets sold back to the owner.
The bike world is complex. Try to sell that bike on Craigslist or E-Bay, and you might struggle to sell it for $500 to $1000.
But, rebuild a similar bike and you'll struggle to build it for$2K. And, it is not really the cost of the build, but the cost of the parts going into the build. Again, you don't have to rebuild your totaled Lamborghini with Pinto parts.
Try to do a new replacement. There are a few companies that will make custom steel frames (64cm?). but rapidly the insurance company will choke on the costs.
And, even if the bike is a $500 to $1000 on Craigslist... you could part it out, and the wheelset... maybe $500, perhaps even more if you sell bare hubs, rims, etc. Then $500 for the frame. And, another $500 for the groupset. And, a couple hundred more for other miscellaneous parts. And a few hundred if a shop does the assembly and fitting to reassemble from parts (whether or not you do most of your repairs, you aren't required to do that).
After thinking about this, if it was me, I'd probably ask for about $1000 to $1200 + keep bike.
I liked to a 32h G3 Powertap hub above for $295. Perhaps $300 for new rims and spokes. And, the equivalent of a couple hundred to repair the frame (still cheaper than replacing).
05-24-21, 01:18 PM
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himespau- I would recommend you file a claim with the driver's insurance carrier. Put your own auto insurance carrier on notice as well if you carry underinsured/uninsured motorists coverage. Even if your insurance never pays anything, it's good practice to put them on notice.
Best approach would be to reach an agreed amount for the property damage and have the insurance company cut you a check for that amount. Don't sign any release of claim for bodily injury unless/until you are certain that you are completely recovered with no residual injury.
As tricky suggests, I don't expect the driver's insurance company will be confrontational about the valuation of your property damage as long as you have an estimate from a bike shop and/or sold Ebay listings for parts identical or similar to yours if they can't be purchased new from a shop. Property damage is almost always 4 figures + in auto crashes these days...the big headache for insurers is settling the bodily injury claim (if any) without attorney involvement.
AlanO - I have to disagree with you. Replacement cost may be a point of negotiation, but this is not the same as settling a claim with your auto insurer for comprehensive or collision with your insurance contract stating you get actual cash value at the time of the loss. Property Damage in a third party liability situation like this one is subject to negotiation between injured party and wrongful party (and their insurer). Most auto adjusters are more worried about the valuation of the bodily injury than the property damage.
Best approach would be to reach an agreed amount for the property damage and have the insurance company cut you a check for that amount. Don't sign any release of claim for bodily injury unless/until you are certain that you are completely recovered with no residual injury.
As tricky suggests, I don't expect the driver's insurance company will be confrontational about the valuation of your property damage as long as you have an estimate from a bike shop and/or sold Ebay listings for parts identical or similar to yours if they can't be purchased new from a shop. Property damage is almost always 4 figures + in auto crashes these days...the big headache for insurers is settling the bodily injury claim (if any) without attorney involvement.
AlanO - I have to disagree with you. Replacement cost may be a point of negotiation, but this is not the same as settling a claim with your auto insurer for comprehensive or collision with your insurance contract stating you get actual cash value at the time of the loss. Property Damage in a third party liability situation like this one is subject to negotiation between injured party and wrongful party (and their insurer). Most auto adjusters are more worried about the valuation of the bodily injury than the property damage.
05-24-21, 01:29 PM
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himespau- I would recommend you file a claim with the driver's insurance carrier. Put your own auto insurance carrier on notice as well if you carry underinsured/uninsured motorists coverage. Even if your insurance never pays anything, it's good practice to put them on notice.
Best approach would be to reach an agreed amount for the property damage and have the insurance company cut you a check for that amount. Don't sign any release of claim for bodily injury unless/until you are certain that you are completely recovered with no residual injury.
As tricky suggests, I don't expect the driver's insurance company will be confrontational about the valuation of your property damage as long as you have an estimate from a bike shop and/or sold Ebay listings for parts identical or similar to yours if they can't be purchased new from a shop. Property damage is almost always 4 figures + in auto crashes these days...the big headache for insurers is settling the bodily injury claim (if any) without attorney involvement.
AlanO - I have to disagree with you. Replacement cost may be a point of negotiation, but this is not the same as settling a claim with your auto insurer for comprehensive or collision with your insurance contract stating you get actual cash value at the time of the loss. Property Damage in a third party liability situation like this one is subject to negotiation between injured party and wrongful party (and their insurer). Most auto adjusters are more worried about the valuation of the bodily injury than the property damage.
Best approach would be to reach an agreed amount for the property damage and have the insurance company cut you a check for that amount. Don't sign any release of claim for bodily injury unless/until you are certain that you are completely recovered with no residual injury.
As tricky suggests, I don't expect the driver's insurance company will be confrontational about the valuation of your property damage as long as you have an estimate from a bike shop and/or sold Ebay listings for parts identical or similar to yours if they can't be purchased new from a shop. Property damage is almost always 4 figures + in auto crashes these days...the big headache for insurers is settling the bodily injury claim (if any) without attorney involvement.
AlanO - I have to disagree with you. Replacement cost may be a point of negotiation, but this is not the same as settling a claim with your auto insurer for comprehensive or collision with your insurance contract stating you get actual cash value at the time of the loss. Property Damage in a third party liability situation like this one is subject to negotiation between injured party and wrongful party (and their insurer). Most auto adjusters are more worried about the valuation of the bodily injury than the property damage.
05-24-21, 02:56 PM
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I'm not worried about money, I just don't want to spend the rest of my life with a bad back as a result of this.
05-24-21, 04:01 PM
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Talk to a doctor.
Get a CT if called for.
Many types of muscle/ligament strains just take a long time to heal, but they will eventually heal. Bone, nerve, or disc injuries could be more serious. But, if you are still walking without significant numbness, my guess is the treatment will be fairly conservative.
Get a CT if called for.
Many types of muscle/ligament strains just take a long time to heal, but they will eventually heal. Bone, nerve, or disc injuries could be more serious. But, if you are still walking without significant numbness, my guess is the treatment will be fairly conservative.
05-25-21, 10:33 AM
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@himespau Going to Alaska so she can’t talk to you? They have cell service in a lot of Alaska and even the remote places usually can get some sort of satellite internet. Get her insurance info asap while she’s still talking with you if you don’t already have it. Don’t convey any panic to her or anything nor do I think you should be worried at this stage but if she’s already going out of pocket and communications are getting spotty, best to move while you can, regardless of if she’s doing this deliberately or not.
you’re obviously a good dude and are trying to be amicable, but you were hit by a car and deserve a timely resolution
They have cell service in a lot of Alaska and even the remote places usually can get some sort of satellite internet. Get her insurance info asap while she’s still talking with you if you don’t already have it. Don’t convey any panic to her or anything nor do I think you should be worried at this stage but if she’s already going out of pocket and communications are getting spotty, best to move while you can, regardless of if she’s doing this deliberately or not.you’re obviously a good dude and are trying to be amicable, but you were hit by a car and deserve a timely resolution
05-25-21, 11:08 AM
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@himespau Going to Alaska so she can’t talk to you? They have cell service in a lot of Alaska and even the remote places usually can get some sort of satellite internet. Get her insurance info asap while she’s still talking with you if you don’t already have it. Don’t convey any panic to her or anything nor do I think you should be worried at this stage but if she’s already going out of pocket and communications are getting spotty, best to move while you can, regardless of if she’s doing this deliberately or not.
you’re obviously a good dude and are trying to be amicable, but you were hit by a car and deserve a timely resolution
They have cell service in a lot of Alaska and even the remote places usually can get some sort of satellite internet. Get her insurance info asap while she’s still talking with you if you don’t already have it. Don’t convey any panic to her or anything nor do I think you should be worried at this stage but if she’s already going out of pocket and communications are getting spotty, best to move while you can, regardless of if she’s doing this deliberately or not.you’re obviously a good dude and are trying to be amicable, but you were hit by a car and deserve a timely resolution
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05-25-21, 11:09 AM
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Talk to a doctor.
Get a CT if called for.
Many types of muscle/ligament strains just take a long time to heal, but they will eventually heal. Bone, nerve, or disc injuries could be more serious. But, if you are still walking without significant numbness, my guess is the treatment will be fairly conservative.
Get a CT if called for.
Many types of muscle/ligament strains just take a long time to heal, but they will eventually heal. Bone, nerve, or disc injuries could be more serious. But, if you are still walking without significant numbness, my guess is the treatment will be fairly conservative.
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05-25-21, 12:35 PM
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Most of your future interactions will be with the insurance companies (and DMV?), so it won't really matter where the lady is.
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05-25-21, 04:40 PM
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I've been looking on eBay at 64 cm CTC seat tube, 60 cm CTC top tube lugged steel frames from the late 80's through mid 90's for if I need to replace this one. So far, it looks like there are a lot fewer of them than there were 8-10 years ago when I bought this one. And none in pro team race livery with a race number hanger. Not that I need a number hanger or pro team livery (though I did buy a team PDM jersey from that era that I've never worn along with some memorabilia to match this bike). I really hope I don't have to replace it.
This is finally encouraging me to dig out the 88 Schwinn Voyageur frameset I bought years back and look into building it up to ride until I can get this road bike fixed/replaced. Unfortunately, I'm going to need to build some wheels for it, which I suck at and is why it never got built up, - just ordered the spokes today. Eventually, having 2 bikes will be a good thing even if I never get into the touring/commuting/gravel that I bought the Voyageur for so I can have one set up for fast long solo rides/riding on the trainer and the other for more upright cruising with the family. Eventually.
This is finally encouraging me to dig out the 88 Schwinn Voyageur frameset I bought years back and look into building it up to ride until I can get this road bike fixed/replaced. Unfortunately, I'm going to need to build some wheels for it, which I suck at and is why it never got built up, - just ordered the spokes today. Eventually, having 2 bikes will be a good thing even if I never get into the touring/commuting/gravel that I bought the Voyageur for so I can have one set up for fast long solo rides/riding on the trainer and the other for more upright cruising with the family. Eventually.
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05-25-21, 05:42 PM
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I've been looking on eBay at 64 cm CTC seat tube, 60 cm CTC top tube lugged steel frames from the late 80's through mid 90's for if I need to replace this one. So far, it looks like there are a lot fewer of them than there were 8-10 years ago when I bought this one. And none in pro team race livery with a race number hanger. Not that I need a number hanger or pro team livery (though I did buy a team PDM jersey from that era that I've never worn along with some memorabilia to match this bike). I really hope I don't have to replace it.
This is finally encouraging me to dig out the 88 Schwinn Voyageur frameset I bought years back and look into building it up to ride until I can get this road bike fixed/replaced. Unfortunately, I'm going to need to build some wheels for it, which I suck at and is why it never got built up, - just ordered the spokes today. Eventually, having 2 bikes will be a good thing even if I never get into the touring/commuting/gravel that I bought the Voyageur for so I can have one set up for fast long solo rides/riding on the trainer and the other for more upright cruising with the family. Eventually.
This is finally encouraging me to dig out the 88 Schwinn Voyageur frameset I bought years back and look into building it up to ride until I can get this road bike fixed/replaced. Unfortunately, I'm going to need to build some wheels for it, which I suck at and is why it never got built up, - just ordered the spokes today. Eventually, having 2 bikes will be a good thing even if I never get into the touring/commuting/gravel that I bought the Voyageur for so I can have one set up for fast long solo rides/riding on the trainer and the other for more upright cruising with the family. Eventually.
And yes, get the backup bike going post haste to keep your mind off the other situation a bit.
05-25-21, 06:30 PM
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There are a number of manufacturers that still work in steel, and may be able to make large sizes. Colnago, Bob Jackson, Miele, Mercian, Hetchins, and a bunch of smaller manufacturers. Several "touring" companies.
Your bike has a fair slope to the head tube. I'm sure if you scoured Craigslist, more than a few bikes and frames would pop up, but perhaps not to your tastes.
Your bike has a fair slope to the head tube. I'm sure if you scoured Craigslist, more than a few bikes and frames would pop up, but perhaps not to your tastes.
06-02-21, 08:08 PM
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@himespau How's it going? Feeling alright?
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06-10-21, 06:45 AM
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So the claims adjuster contracted by (driver's car insurance) called me last night as I was trying to get my kids to bed. I was flustered at the time and don't think I did the best job of explaining to him that this wasn't just some random 30-year old steel bike with a newer carbon fork and PowerTap wheels, but was a bike that I'd built from the frame up 10 years ago with modern (at the time) parts through several iterations exactly to my specifications. He did sound like he was trying to figure out replacement costs for the bike.
Is it ok to negotiate with them when they come with a number?
Can I say, "This frame and components have sentimental value to me and I don't want to lose them, so I've talked with a professional framebuilder (@Doug Fattic) who said that (with the caveat that he hasn't seen the frame in person or held it in his hands) he probably could able to fix the mis-alignment of the frame. Since probably doesn't mean definitely and he lives 5 hours away from me and I won't be able to get the frame in person to him until later this summer after I hope to have the property claim resolved, I would be willing to assume the risk that it might not work and end up with a completely broken frame (plus put in the inconvenience of getting the frame too and from him) for the price he estimated plus say $2-300. If they pay me that plus $(current eBay average) for a NOS 175 mm 10 speed Triple Campagnolo crankset to replace the one that got bent, $X to replace the wheels, $Y to replace the powermeter, and $Z to replace the chain, cassette, tubes and tires, I'd call the property damage part of the claim done."
Is that reasonable? I really just want to have a bike (preferably my current one) that was in the condition it was before the accident.
The bike shops both came back with estimates that were replacing the frame with a modern one (probably custom because 64 cm, lugged, straight top tube frames are not available off the rack) and a 12 speed Campagnolo groupset because Campy doesn't make 10 speed triple cranksets anymore and nothing they make new would be compatible with the rest of my components. The total of new, equivalent frameset, new groupset, new wheels, new powermeter plus labor to install would be a lot more than what I listed above (I wouldn't be charging them my labor among other things if I did it myself).
I have no idea what the claims adjuster is going to come back with but a new steel frame/carbon fork road bike if he just goes with bikes direct or whatever pricing wouldn't be the same (new steel bikes - especially if he goes with something like bikes direct - tend to be lower end and components wouldn't be anywhere near the equivalent quality) and that with a power meter on top could be either more or less than what I'm suggesting depending on what he goes with.
Either option would probably mean me having to get rid of the current frameset and components, which I really like.
Mr. Fattic has let me know of someone who is considering selling one of his custom frames an hour or so away from me that's roughly my size and there's a John Hollands frame in my size that's been sitting on eBay for a while that I've been lusting after, so, if I have to replace my bike (and the insurance company gives me money to do so - they're both a bit out of my budget at the moment), there are options that I could take, but I'd really love to keep my frame and the components on it if the frame is truly able to be fixed.
My back is still sore every day (and I haven't heard from anyone about my medical claim), but I really want to get back on the bike, so I've been building up some wheels (had the rims, hubs, and right sized spokes for the rear wheel but for some reason none that would work for the front in my parts bin) so that I can do a parts bin build and have something to ride (assuming the doctor can do something for my back) until all this gets resolved.
Tomorrow is my once-every-6-months MRI/chest X-ray to screen for cancer recurrence (I had a 4"x6" tumor that ate the top half of my fibula removed about 1.5 years ago and it's a type that, if it metastasizes, it usually goes for the lungs), so this week and next week are the times every 6 months that I'm feeling more pessimistic/stressed than usual and am always wondering if bad news will mean the question of fixing/replacing the bike won't matter because I won't get to ride anymore.
Is it ok to negotiate with them when they come with a number?
Can I say, "This frame and components have sentimental value to me and I don't want to lose them, so I've talked with a professional framebuilder (@Doug Fattic) who said that (with the caveat that he hasn't seen the frame in person or held it in his hands) he probably could able to fix the mis-alignment of the frame. Since probably doesn't mean definitely and he lives 5 hours away from me and I won't be able to get the frame in person to him until later this summer after I hope to have the property claim resolved, I would be willing to assume the risk that it might not work and end up with a completely broken frame (plus put in the inconvenience of getting the frame too and from him) for the price he estimated plus say $2-300. If they pay me that plus $(current eBay average) for a NOS 175 mm 10 speed Triple Campagnolo crankset to replace the one that got bent, $X to replace the wheels, $Y to replace the powermeter, and $Z to replace the chain, cassette, tubes and tires, I'd call the property damage part of the claim done."
Is that reasonable? I really just want to have a bike (preferably my current one) that was in the condition it was before the accident.
The bike shops both came back with estimates that were replacing the frame with a modern one (probably custom because 64 cm, lugged, straight top tube frames are not available off the rack) and a 12 speed Campagnolo groupset because Campy doesn't make 10 speed triple cranksets anymore and nothing they make new would be compatible with the rest of my components. The total of new, equivalent frameset, new groupset, new wheels, new powermeter plus labor to install would be a lot more than what I listed above (I wouldn't be charging them my labor among other things if I did it myself).
I have no idea what the claims adjuster is going to come back with but a new steel frame/carbon fork road bike if he just goes with bikes direct or whatever pricing wouldn't be the same (new steel bikes - especially if he goes with something like bikes direct - tend to be lower end and components wouldn't be anywhere near the equivalent quality) and that with a power meter on top could be either more or less than what I'm suggesting depending on what he goes with.
Either option would probably mean me having to get rid of the current frameset and components, which I really like.
Mr. Fattic has let me know of someone who is considering selling one of his custom frames an hour or so away from me that's roughly my size and there's a John Hollands frame in my size that's been sitting on eBay for a while that I've been lusting after, so, if I have to replace my bike (and the insurance company gives me money to do so - they're both a bit out of my budget at the moment), there are options that I could take, but I'd really love to keep my frame and the components on it if the frame is truly able to be fixed.
My back is still sore every day (and I haven't heard from anyone about my medical claim), but I really want to get back on the bike, so I've been building up some wheels (had the rims, hubs, and right sized spokes for the rear wheel but for some reason none that would work for the front in my parts bin) so that I can do a parts bin build and have something to ride (assuming the doctor can do something for my back) until all this gets resolved.
Tomorrow is my once-every-6-months MRI/chest X-ray to screen for cancer recurrence (I had a 4"x6" tumor that ate the top half of my fibula removed about 1.5 years ago and it's a type that, if it metastasizes, it usually goes for the lungs), so this week and next week are the times every 6 months that I'm feeling more pessimistic/stressed than usual and am always wondering if bad news will mean the question of fixing/replacing the bike won't matter because I won't get to ride anymore.
Last edited by himespau; 06-10-21 at 06:50 AM.
06-10-21, 09:03 AM
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My experience is, if no lawyer involved, they will be generous with a settlement to get you off the books.
06-10-21, 09:13 AM
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What usually happens to the old bike/components if the bike is written off as totaled?
06-10-21, 10:14 AM
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They have no use for the old parts.
06-18-21, 08:03 PM
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Well, the insurance company has yet to contact me - I've tried responding to their emails but no response - but now a local car salvage yard is calling me, claiming to be working on behalf of the insurance company, asking me when they can pick up my 1990 motorcycle. I respond that I don't have a motorcycle, the insurance company does not have my permission to take my possessions and they need to clarify what is going on. They say they don't know other than they need to pick up my motorcycle and want to know when they can do that. I really didn't want to get a lawyer involved, but it might be time. I'm paying for medical visits and dealing with repeated badgering from people they've contracted. USAA is making it clear that they're a terrible company.
06-18-21, 08:26 PM
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Well, the insurance company has yet to contact me - I've tried responding to their emails but no response - but now a local car salvage yard is calling me, claiming to be working on behalf of the insurance company, asking me when they can pick up my 1990 motorcycle. I respond that I don't have a motorcycle, the insurance company does not have my permission to take my possessions and they need to clarify what is going on. They say they don't know other than they need to pick up my motorcycle and want to know when they can do that. I really didn't want to get a lawyer involved, but it might be time. I'm paying for medical visits and dealing with repeated badgering from people they've contracted. USAA is making it clear that they're a terrible company.
This rabbit hole has taken a very unfortunate turn. I haven't kept up here but do not try the "sentimental value" road, this is a red flag for them that will put you in a bad light that they will basically write you off with. Sentimental=silly/stupid to them and also little to no real value. 
And with the treatment you're getting from them now I would expect them to play the preexisting injury card bigtime, at some point.
Last edited by merziac; 06-18-21 at 08:34 PM.
06-18-21, 08:34 PM
#75
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Yeah, I was hoping to be reasonable, and, if they came back with an offer, I would negotiate in the hopes of keeping the frame and getting it to Mr. Fattic to have him try to bend it right even if it meant taking less in return (with the understanding that he hasn't seen it yet to know how bad it is and if it really is fixable). But they clearly aren't interested in communicating with me in any form.