billyridesteel

Dear Bike Forum,
I've been looking for several weeks for a Campagnolo triple bottom bracket spindle 70-SS-120 X3 (118mm long) on Ebay, Google, you name it, to no avail. Are these spindles as rare as hen's teeth? I could only find a few 68-SS-120 X3 Campy spindles - but no 70mm babies : (
Does anyone have one, know of someone that does have one, or know of a spindle that IS available that can be substituted? (ISO square taper, compatible with Campagnolo vintage Record cranks, for a 70mm BB shell, 118mm long).
I've been advised that an alternative is a Shimano Cartridge BB with Italian threaded cups, and square tapers (albeit not ISO), 70mm (shell width/) x 118mm (spindle length)
Thanks, Bill
PS This is for my newly triplized Campagnolo Record crankset: 52T-42T-32T for my 1980 Colnago Super.

trainman999

Phil Wood can be found used $40-70

jackbombay

From Sheldon Brown's website,

So, using a shorter JIS spindle will work.

I have put campy cranks on a JIS spindle before, but I did not feel the difference was 4.5mm as Sheldon says, it seemed more like 3mm? I'm sure others here have experimented more with this than my one example though.

merziac

In a word, yes, be glad you're not looking for the inner chainring bolts, they can be more than the whole rest of the crank.

That being said, welcome aboard, glad you found us, you're in the right place.

So anytime you say Colnago or Campy triple, let alone the two together, we need pics or it didn't happen.

You need 5 posts X 2 days for 10 to post pics, its an anti spam measure that serves us very well.

70mm is a challenge, go with the Phil Wood for now, you could also try a co-op if you have one near you, you can use any spindle that fits regardless of JIS, ISO, Campy, Sugino, SR, DA and on and on. I have 3 of these, all are 68mm, 2 with the Campy spindles and one Phil.

Might be interesting to see where a 70mm JIS double 108-112 would get you if the arms sit 3-4.5mm further out.

This is an extra odd scenario but otherwise I would sit down with as big a pile of spindles as I could muster and mix and match until I got something to work, and something always does.

Gitane1

Try getting in touch with "Scampi Cicli" in Zurich, Switzerland. There is literally not a piece of Campagnolo kit that I've ever looked for that they don't have in stock.
The plain answer to your question would be "yes" otherwise ... unfortunately.

Ross200

TA Axix Light is/was? available in ISO 119mm with Italian threads. Peter White might have one on the shelf.

juvela

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resting in me parts drawers have one Campag 3X suspect to be una rara avis

there was a brief time in the early nineteen sixties when Tullio & Co. decided to make all of the Record serie bottom bracket fittings in a size for three sixteenths ball instead of quarter inch

have a triple spindle from this time intended for employment with a seventy-four mm shell

this shell width not unique to Cino; was employed by some other makers at one time when one gets far eno' back into the dim reaches of pre-history


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jeirvine 

They are out there. I have had good luck just looking at pictures closely on eBay for the telltale X3. Sellers sometimes don't know what they have. But as others have pointed out, 68s are a lot more common than 70s, I suppose since the triples were spec'd for Paramounts and a few other English-threaded bikes. I'm not aware of any Italian bike models that came with a factory triple, though I'd be interested to find out if one was.

Duke7777

They are quite rare, but the 70-SS-120 X3 you have been looking for is for a pre-CPSC crank. If you have a post-77 crank on your Colnago, the spindle you need is the Record 70 SS X3, 122 mm long. Also note that these are part of the Record group, which used thin (non-rifled) cups, so you would need to find those too. Campagnolo never made an X3 Nuovo Record bottom bracket. The Record spindle measures 56 mm between bearing race shoulders vs 51 mm for the Nuovo Record.

You might also find a 70 SS X3 spindle in a black finish, which is Gran Sport, 124 mm long, also for use with thin cups.

63rickert

If the small chainring ring clears the chain stay it is not going to matter if the chain line is perfect. The granny ring will only be used with larger sprockets. If you do end up running the chain on granny and a small sprocket there was too much wear and friction for a minute and then you shift to something better.

The 70 dimension does make it a lot harder. Start test fitting whatever you have got. If you have Campy cups no one but you knows what the spindle is. Remember thick and thin cups. Thick cups might just make a 68 spindle fly with a 70 bracket. I made this work once with a 90s Athena double spindle. Why would that work? Who cares, it did work. Stronglight made triple spindles in a huge range of widths and they are very available, very cheap. Just keep trying different parts you can get instead of pining away for what can’t be had. Before making that Athena work I did spend for the real thing and for who knows what reason the crank sat so far outboard it was hopeless. Then I gave that expensive spindle away.

Duke7777

Yes, all good points. There are lots of different ways to make this work. Over the past couple of years I've converted all my Campagnolo bikes (about 12) to triples, using various combinations of cups, spindles and spacers. Usually there is some combination of thin/thick cups, pre/post-CPSC spindles, 68/70 spindles, Stronglight/TA/Campagnolo/Japanese brands, cup spacers, etc that will work. However, this approach isn't very practical unless you've already accumulated a bunch of spare parts to try.

repechage

The age profile of vintage enthusiasts is showing... triples, just try to find a TA 374 spindle...

jeirvine 

This one just popped up on eBay:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/124701526178

JohnDThompson 

I suspect (but haven't actually tried) that a Sugino MT-70 or Avocet-3-70 might also work with the Record triple crank.

seypat

Stronglight made 118s. Maybe they made some for 70mm BBs.

seypat

Booyah! Stronglight did come in 70mm.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/23389273171...4AAOSwvlVgJYCE

Nuovo Record

Gipiemme made a matching bottom bracket with 119 mm axle.

Zeus, too, I believe.

I once had a Campagnolo triple bottom bracket, I think from the older Centaur group, but the axle was 124 mm long.

bulgie 

Hmm, I'm not so trusting of the word a single unknown (to me) ebay seller. Is there any evidence I'm missing that it really is specially for 70 mm shell, other than the seller's say-so? I didn't see any stamping on the spindle, but the pics are small so I might have missed it.

TA didn't make different widths of spindles for 68 vs. 70 mm shells, they just made the cups 1 mm thicker on each side for Italian. Anyone know if Stronglight might have done the same? Then the seller's measurement of 70 mm would be correct if he used Ital. cups, but the same spindle might be 68 mm with F. or Eng. cups.

I have used Campy Record (NR) cranks on Stronglight spindles a few times. If there was a chainline discrepancy, I don't remember, but it must not have been much, because I am somewhat picky about chainline. In my weight-weenie racing days I liked the Stronglight titanium unit with alloy cups and sealed cartridge bearings, felt it was an upgrade from tutto Campagnolo.

When mixing brands, in addition to chainline, the other variable to look at is how far the spindle taper pokes through the square hole. 3 things that can go wrong, deal-breakers:

1. Not enough spindle pokes through, too little overlap between spindle and crank, resulting in higher forces, reduced strength
2. Spindle pokes all the way through until it hits the bolt/washer, spindle doesn't tighten fully, gets ruined almost immediately
3. Taper flats on spindle not long enough, so the back side of the crank hits on the transition fillet or shelf at the end of the flats. Same result as #2. Can be hard to see, especially on cranks where the place that hits is recessed, out of sight.

Don't forget, when talking about ISO, JIS etc, that these are newish standards that didn't exist back in the '70s. Campy and Stronglight used their own taper standards that don't match up exactly with either modern standard. Differences can be subtle and not necessarily deal-breakers, so just do your due diligence and run what works.

Mark B

juvela

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caution -

seller gives no text information as to why they think it for 70mm

note absence of a marking indicating such

suspect that seller assumes it to be a 70mm because it came out of an Italian shell

Stronglight & T.A. solved the problem of having to manufacture spindles for 70mm shells by making the walls of their Italian cups 1.0mm thicker than those of their metric and BSC cups

unfortunately the arrangement does not cover all bases. Flandria for example, produced gazillions of cycles with 70mm shells and BSC threading. no way to use either a Stronglight or T.A. BB with that configuration.

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Nuovo Record

The seller accepts returns. If you pay through Paypal, they will cover the return postage.

sovende

Back in the mid-90s, I was in the Army and stationed at Caserma Ederle in Vicenza, Italy. While there, an Italian friend hooked me up with a small bike shop in town and I had a bike built for me. Since we were in Vicenza, it was a given that the “gruppo” would be Campagnolo. When I asked if it could be built with triple chain wheels on the crank, both my friend AND the bike builder looked at me as if I was crazy 😳! Apparently, no self-respecting Italian would EVER have a road bike with a triple “up front”! Bottom line, my hand built “Bianucci” does NOT have triple chainwheels on the crank!!!

seypat

There's this one. Maybe the OP can locate one.

VeloBase.com - Component: Stronglight Competition ref. 65 (cup-and-spindle)

billyridesteel

Actually I bought this yesterday, hoping it will move the inside chainring out enough to clear the chainstay. Duke7777 said:
They are quite rare, but the 70-SS-120 X3 you have been looking for is for a pre-CPSC crank. If you have a post-77 crank on your Colnago, the spindle you need is the Record 70 SS X3, 122 mm long.
I have to check my crankset - I am not sure if it is pre-CPSC or not. I didn't have it in the early 70's, so I don't know. Will install it and keep my fingers crossed.

Robvolz 

I've resurrected this thread because we have solid information on what will work and what simply does not.

But, for those of us trying to add triples to our steads, especially Italian ones, we have unanswered questions.

For starters, thanks so much to the knowledge sharing from both JohnDThompson, Duke7777 and others who have chimed in, not just this thread but continuously while people like myself sort through this problem.

Here's what we know:

Just because something appears in the Campy Catalogue, does not mean it was produced with any quantity.

Italian bikes have 70mm wide BB shells, while British, American and Japanese have 68mm.

Italians (broad generalization) were more into racing while the Brits, French, Americans did more touring, so Triple cranks made more sense in the later mentioned counties.

Italians (another broad generalization) scoffed at those using triples, something about "machismo." "Tripla manovella? Le tue gambe sono deboli e il tuo alito sa di lumache"

When the safety rulings came out, a lip was added to the FD to prevent the non-curved part from entering fleshy legs (completely ignoring sharp teeth of a chainring mere MMs away)

The Safety lip added to the outbound movement of the FD, which altered the chain line and consequently Campagnolo added MMs to their cranks to accommodate the changes.

Campy widened their triple crank spindle to make up for all the changes, but did not change the part numbers.

There are two versions of the 70mm SS 120 X3, before and post 1978 safety ruling, but one is 5mm longer.

This is also the time bikes started to widen the rears from 120 to more, not only for the newly affected chain line, but to accommodate more gear selections on the freewheel.

Campy cranks use ISO also known as 'Campy Taper"

Japanese cranks use JIS, which is different. I recall one will fit but stick out, and the other will never fit.

"the wonderful thing about International Standards, . . . is that there are so many of them"

Ofmega used its own square taper system, and not compatible with Campy, but later changed to ISO, and will fit campy, but no one knows when.

Gipemme? Maybe an option. Not sure if they ever made one long enough.

Zeus seems like a great option, they were campy knock-offs/clones (don't want this thread hi-jacked on this topic please) and seem to have the proper taper. Plus Titanium parts!! With the failure of Campy Super record BB spindles, I'm not sure that is a plus or a minus. There is little info in the full measurements of the Zeus kits as far as distance between bearing races and whether thay can be used with a 70mm campy normal or thin cup set.

There seems to be lots of 68mm campy sets around, but English threaded.

Could a 68mm spindle be used with the 70mm regular, not thin cups? What about using smaller ball bearings?

Are there other brands I'm not thinking of? Strong Light? TA? Velo-Orange?

What solutions can we come up with?

Thanks
Robert
Portland OR