Hypno Toad

This is my thoughts too, I was running late for a group ride last summer and started working together with a fast commuter on the Midtown Greenway (Minneapolis bike freeway). When he turned off, we said "thanks, bye".

Another time I had a guy grab my wheel when I was pushing my bike hard to troubleshoot and issue that only happened at speed. He never took a pull, it don't bug me, I was doing my pace for my reasons. And I laughed when I pulled off to inspect the bike... he was disappointing to lose the draft.

The one time I silently hopped on a wheel, I was riding my city bike with panniers after shopping, had a kitted-out rider force a pass... so I got on his wheel and drafted for a couple miles. I don't think he liked the idea that a guy in street clothes on a city bike could hold his wheel LOL!

I race a enough, you end up drafting riders you don't know, with riders drafting you that you don't know. I've made lasting friendships this way.

atwl77

I agree.

Another significant difference is that, drafting on a road bike has real benefits which can be capitalized upon if both riders agree to, whereas deliberately walking closely behind someone else is just plain creepy no matter how you spin it.

Ok, being an anime and tokusatsu fan, I am very curious to know exactly what you said.

San Pedro

I was saying ushiro ni imasu... Behind you... My wife said that it sounded creepy, so I asked her what to say, and she said just cough or something

zacster

I was usually doing this in either Prospect or Central parks in NYC. Both are 3 lanes of bikes on the roadway so I always had plenty of room. It is a little harder on the open road sometimes, but also happens a lot less frequently.

There's this one guy in Prospect Park that took an unannounced pull, but since I recognized him I figured it was OK. But at some point I expected him to take a turn at the front but he never did. The next time I saw him I told him he owed me a pull, but he still hasn't paid up, and it's been a few years now. He's a wheel sucker.

WhyFi

I move- uhhhh, I mean, maybe he moved.

noimagination

I couldn't care less.

HOWEVER: if you hop on my wheel without notice, just be aware that we're not cooperating. I'm on my ride, you're on yours, we just happen to be going in the same direction in close proximity. I'm not obligated to call out hazards, to keep a constant speed when switching to standing, to keep a constant effort when climbing, to signal turns or stops, etc. (I will, however, refrain from blowing snot rockets while I'm in front of you - to do otherwise is just not civilized). I may call out or signal out of the kindness of my heart, but I'm not required to, and if you hit a road hazard, or get your wheel swept when I deviate from my path while our wheels are overlapped, or similar, then it's you're own lookout.

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Carbonfiberboy 

^+1 Me too. Good attitude IMO.

Doge

There is a risk factor increase, more for the person behind. If they decide to take a pull or whatever, you are behind.
This stuff is just not good without some discussion, esp in high car traffic urban areas where dodging the whatever is common.
If there is no discussion, that is a flag right there. Avoid riding with strangers unless your plan for the day is to ride with strangers.

drewguy

This came up for me today. Person passed me, pulled away but eventually I got closer (not sure if she slowed, or I started going faster). I hung back about 10 feet because if I passed, she'd need to pass right back. After about a minute she slows to yell at me not to draft without asking, or to pass. I told her I didn't think hanging back 10 feet+ was drafting, but fortunately I was about to turn off at that point anyway.

So, what distance behind is still drafting?

DrIsotope

AFAIC, if you're more than a bike length back, you're not drafting. I do the same as you, staying ~10 feet behind, until they invariably start going too slowly and I'm forced to pass. I don't get passed back, because it seems like the typical "angry about anyone in front of or behind them" rider locally seems to think that 17mph is "really fast."

I had one today. I ate up the mile or so distance between us, got about ten feet back, at which point he gradually starting bleeding off speed, then gave me "the look" over his shoulder. I went by on the left and never saw him again. I'm not even ashamed to admit that I take some small pleasure in chasing riders down on the river trail. It's better when they fight it. When I get a rider to suddenly pull to the side of the trail to "take a phone call"... that's a good day.

caloso

10 feet is not close enough to be aerodynamically significant, that is, it's not drafting. On the other hand, it is close enough to be perceived as creepy. So either pass or sit up and allow a bigger gap to form.

Doge

My experience with some fast (ones that can ride 25-30) riders is they often ride slowly Sometimes, so others can keep up, sometimes for recovery, sometimes for safety, sometimes just finished a bathroom stop. Still, on these SoCal routes, it is often that someone comes screaming by telling them to hold their line, move right etc. There is no reaction. That impresses me. Great riders don't care, and much serious training is on their own.

woodcraft

I jumped on a wheel last weekend. If you're going above a certain speed, and have the signature , it can be assumed that you know what to do.

I took a pull, & we split at a fork, crossing paths later with a wave.

Unfortunately, he did not show up on Strava, as I wanted to see where his ride went.

TheDudeIsHere

"at which point he gradually starting bleeding off speed, then gave me "the look" over his shoulder. I went by on the left and never saw him again. I'm not even ashamed to admit that I take some small pleasure in chasing riders down on the river trail. It's better when they fight it."

Exactly what happened to me yesterday but I was the guy getting passed!

Some guy caught me from behind, from some distance I am sure. I looked over my shoulder as he was ready to pass. But I was exiting the trail so the look over my shoulder as he passed was so that I did not turn into him knowing he was catching and maybe ready to pass. I was tired but still pushing hard in an effort to keep my average up so he probably thought I was "fighting it".

When I got home, I plugged into Strava, I saw him in the fly by feature. Yeah, he caught me from behind at that point but his ride stats?

10 miles shorter ride and 1 MPH slower average speed than my ride. But he sure looked good passing me at the end of my ride.

Just realized something. He had just started his ride when he made his killer pass.

DrIsotope

I was at mile 32 of 45 for the day, and not particularly gassing it-- finished a no-touch ride at something like 18.9mph average. I passed the dude about four, four and a half miles from the north end of the trail. No idea how far back he was by the time I exited, he was way out of eyeshot and no fly-by on Strava. He was definitely trying to maintain any kind of gap, though-- he looked back a couple of times as I approached, and this is a river trail-- no cars, no traffic.

My wife has it way worse. There are certain dudes out there that absolutely cannot have a woman riding in front of them. Their ego can't handle it. In one supported ride, a guy huffed and puffed to get past her probably 10 times, then would get passed back while he caught his breath. Went on for like half an hour. She's far more patient than I. I would have straight told that dude, don't pass unless you can hold it.

TheDudeIsHere

My wife is strong, not competitive but strong. Best 44 miles at 18.2 average speed. Been riding for 20 years consistently.

I have had guys swear, curse, and get really upset not being able to keep up. One particular ride was really funny. 2 of us caught a small group of 5 guys. We passed them, they hopped on the back. After 2 miles or so, we hit a small descent on the trail. 2 of the guys sprinted around, the others were happy to stay at the back. The 2 guys rolled away but we caught back up, knew we would. We hit a small incline, maybe 30 yards, maybe 5% (?). We rolled by one guy and he laughed. Said,"well I am fast on the downhills!".

The second guy got totally pizzed! He started swearing, grinding his teeth and raging as my wife rolled by. RELAX DUDE!! It's just a bike ride.

At times my wife can get pretty strong. She has spells where she does GMR (2300 ft 8 miles- 3000 ft 13 miles) every weekend for 2 or 3 months at a time. So she gets strong and those little 30 yard bumps on the trail are not going to slow her down much.

It's all in fun! But yes, guys do not like to be "chicked". FTR, I've been chicked many times. Some really strong wimmins out there. Especially on the mountain climbs.

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Ah, story comes to mind while I'm on this topic.

Last year, the wife and I were out riding. Some guy hopped on her wheel as we rolled by. Didn't ask, announce himself or any of the likes. So he stayed on her wheel for about 6 miles. Never said anything.

I looked at the flybys on Strava once I logged our rides. I saw him so I gave him kudos and left a comment that said,"nice ride." He asked how I found him and I mentioned the fly bys.

He said that was kind of creepy that I searched for him on the site. Umm, I didn't search for you, you showed up on the fly bys. But was is really creepy is that you sat on my wife's wheel for several miles unannounced and stared at her arse for 6 miles. I think that is more creepy than viewing a wheelsucker on Strava.

BengalCat

I never do it. I either slow down a bit and stay 10 or 15 feet behind them or I speed up and pass them. It doesn't bother me if someone hops on my wheel. (Though at my pedestrian pace that seldom happens.) However, when someone closes in it inspires me to do what's necessary if possible to drop them. I actually got my PR on the Strava Santa Monica "Main Attack" segment recently precisely due to the guy behind me.

MoAlpha

My total infatuation with strong, smart, women mitigates any possible narcissistic injury I might experience at being out-ridden, out-sailed, or otherwise bested by them at play or at work and it happens regularly.

TheDudeIsHere

FTR, I will never ever, ever ever ever take a guy's wheel who rolls by me!

I've seen guys catch me from 1/4 mile behind, I let him roll by and give him a shout as he rolls by. He's stronger, faster, and better. I DO NOT INSTANTLY BECOME FASTER WHEN ANOTHER RIDER ROLLS BY!! Too many guys think they do. Only to fade 1/4 mile down the road. If somebody catches and passes me, kudos to him!

zacster

Jumping on someone's wheel doesn't even mean you are putting out more power. I've seen my power drop by 100 watts when I've gotten behind someone at the same speed. Or inversely your speed will increase if your power remains the same. Either way you aren't necessarily getting a better workout, only if you increase your power and speed to hold someone's wheel.

caloso

Uh yeah, that's the whole point of drafting.

Jose R

I don't bother to suck wheels because most roadies in the NYC area are stressed-out a-holes. I personally don't care if someone drafts behind me. Its all good.

On this past Sunday's ride up and down 9W, I saw a guy in an old-school Look jersey suck every wheel he could find. He sucked my wheel for a while. Until a "team" rider rode past us, and then he sprinted to suck that wheel. On the way back on 9W, I saw him again sucking someone else's wheel. Some guys just love to suck wheels.

Female wheel-sucker story:

Many years ago, I was riding laps in Central Park on a chilly fall day. As I was riding up on the east drive heading towards cats paw hill, I needed to unload some snot rockets. I look over my left shoulder to make sure no one was on my wheel. I then look over my right shoulder. Didn't see anyone. So, I blow out from both nostrils to either side. Suddenly, I hear a shriek, a female shriek that is, and then an exasperated laugh. I turn around and see some poor gal on the side of the road wiping snot from her face. My snot.

When I turned to look back over my shoulders, she must have veered to the right and left to avoid me seeing her.

I felt awful. Couldn't man up to apologize. I mean, what do you say to a gal who is wiping your snot off her face?

Princess_Allez

I LOL'd at that snot rocket story

caloso

Actually, you do get instantly faster (for the same power output).

zacster

Yes, but it is counter-productive to your workout unless you increase your power. Most people that suck wheels do so to lessen the effort to go your speed. It is the difference between workout and racing. In a workout you want to expend your energy in an efficient way to increase power and to increase fitness. In a race you want to expend as little energy as possible to keep up, hence you draft. I know I'm stating the obvious but wheelsuckers don't seem to get this point. We all like to go fast but it isn't always conducive to getting a workout. When I have someone pass me that I want to stick with I increase my power to catch up and ride side by side. That will give you the workout you want. (I'm thinking about where I can do that and it is mostly in Prospect and Central Park in NYC. There is plenty of room to do that. It mostly isn't possible on any road with traffic nor on a MUP.)