Sail bike?
#51
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We have Boats on the river for that .. a vistor last wednesday VFP Golden Rule Project | Advancing VFP Opposition to Nuclear Weapons and War
but due to the storm coming ashore next morning, stayed in port until this morning..
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I can't imagine (with my limited imagination) that a powered propeller could be more efficient than driving the wheels. In any case, this one wasn't the vehicle which set the record. The 126mph vehicle was purpose built with a single outrigger, and taller wing and no prop.
Yes, I know it's an old thread, but it seems to be reborn.
Yes, I know it's an old thread, but it seems to be reborn.
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#53
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You missed the point.
a 270°+ workable wind angle range is vastly superior to one limited to one of 120° or less. Also consider that wind power is most effective when the wind angle is slightly forward of abeam. This way the wind speed increase with the vehicle speed, making speeds faster than the wind possible.
OTOH - running down wind, the wind power diminishes with vehicle speed and the maximum speed possible is less than the wind speed.
a 270°+ workable wind angle range is vastly superior to one limited to one of 120° or less. Also consider that wind power is most effective when the wind angle is slightly forward of abeam. This way the wind speed increase with the vehicle speed, making speeds faster than the wind possible.
OTOH - running down wind, the wind power diminishes with vehicle speed and the maximum speed possible is less than the wind speed.
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An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
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“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
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An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
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I can't imagine (with my limited imagination) that a powered propeller could be more efficient than driving the wheels. In any case, this one wasn't the vehicle which set the record. The 126mph vehicle was purpose built with a single outrigger, and taller wing and no prop.
Water?
Note those record runs were done in a dry lake bed.
Imagine the benefits of future climate change
Last edited by CliffordK; 09-24-16 at 12:48 PM.
#55
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If you look at his 126mph wind record, I'm sure that if the vehicle had pedal power geared for speeds in the 125+ range, he could have kicked (no pun) it up a notch over the 126.
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An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
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An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
#56
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Back in the day when I attended U C Davis there were thousands of bikes on a campus that is essentially flat. When it was windy we would ride down wind and spread our arms out wearing an open jacket and use it for a sail. it worked and was fun. Pretty hard to do anything but down wind since a side wind would tend to blow you over. it would work better with 3 or 4 wheels but a 2 wheel bike, not.
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I know this is an old post but I'm pretty sure this is impossible. If you're going directly down wind, as you approach the speed of the wind the relative wind tends toward zero. Even if (magically) there is no tire and bearing drag, once you hit the speed of wind, relative wind disappears.
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I know this is an old post but I'm pretty sure this is impossible. If you're going directly down wind, as you approach the speed of the wind the relative wind tends toward zero. Even if (magically) there is no tire and bearing drag, once you hit the speed of wind, relative wind disappears.
It would be true with a spinnaker sail. But, the direct downwind cars are being driven by a propeller. But, rather than having the wind turn the propeller, the wheels turn the propeller which blows wind out the back. So, the faster the vehicle moves forward, the faster the propeller turns, and the more wind it blows against the blowing wind from the rear.
Or, perhaps one would say the greater the pressure differential between front and rear.
Here is a good explanation.
https://www.wired.com/2010/06/downwi...than-the-wind/
Apparently they have built upwind vehicles using the opposite principle.
https://www.wired.com/2012/07/wind-powered-car-upwind/
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You missed the point.
a 270°+ workable wind angle range is vastly superior to one limited to one of 120° or less. Also consider that wind power is most effective when the wind angle is slightly forward of abeam. This way the wind speed increase with the vehicle speed, making speeds faster than the wind possible.
OTOH - running down wind, the wind power diminishes with vehicle speed and the maximum speed possible is less than the wind speed.
a 270°+ workable wind angle range is vastly superior to one limited to one of 120° or less. Also consider that wind power is most effective when the wind angle is slightly forward of abeam. This way the wind speed increase with the vehicle speed, making speeds faster than the wind possible.
OTOH - running down wind, the wind power diminishes with vehicle speed and the maximum speed possible is less than the wind speed.
#60
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Wow, that is fascinating in its unintuitiveness.
That is what one would think, but apparently not quite true.
It would be true with a spinnaker sail. But, the direct downwind cars are being driven by a propeller. But, rather than having the wind turn the propeller, the wheels turn the propeller which blows wind out the back. So, the faster the vehicle moves forward, the faster the propeller turns, and the more wind it blows against the blowing wind from the rear.
Or, perhaps one would say the greater the pressure differential between front and rear.
Here is a good explanation.
https://www.wired.com/2010/06/downwi...than-the-wind/
Apparently they have built upwind vehicles using the opposite principle.
https://www.wired.com/2012/07/wind-powered-car-upwind/
It would be true with a spinnaker sail. But, the direct downwind cars are being driven by a propeller. But, rather than having the wind turn the propeller, the wheels turn the propeller which blows wind out the back. So, the faster the vehicle moves forward, the faster the propeller turns, and the more wind it blows against the blowing wind from the rear.
Or, perhaps one would say the greater the pressure differential between front and rear.
Here is a good explanation.
https://www.wired.com/2010/06/downwi...than-the-wind/
Apparently they have built upwind vehicles using the opposite principle.
https://www.wired.com/2012/07/wind-powered-car-upwind/
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I sail. You can defineitely go much faster than the wind. Ice boats (on blades like skates) can go over 100 mph. One of the problems to overcome with a sailbike would be the heeling induced by the sail. Think of how those boats are leaned way over in the wind. A thought I had is a sail on a skateboard, sort of like a land windsurfer...
I've used a sail on a skateboard when I was younger. two pieces of emt bolted together at one end, with a sheet sewn between them. it was fun, especially just before a storm. it finally dawned on me though, that holding two metal poles with a storm rolling in wasn't one of my brightest ideas. haven't done it since.
#66
Banned
There are Trikes that have a Mast & sail, Like Ice Boats, but wheels rather than ice skate like blades.
they are long , wide wheel base, but still can be blown over by the wind.
they are long , wide wheel base, but still can be blown over by the wind.
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Sailing and two wheels will NOT go together.
Land yachts are cool as ice, but they will not do well on public roads, and may actually pose a hazard to yourself and others.
Sail safely and sail cool.
Land yachts are cool as ice, but they will not do well on public roads, and may actually pose a hazard to yourself and others.
Sail safely and sail cool.
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The only way to sail a bike faster than the wind is to have a wide vehicle that can resist a serious tipping power.
A run, when the wind is at your back, allows you to approach the speed of the wind and applies little to no tipping force to the craft.
When the sail is hauled in and the craft turned to cross the wind, then the speed picks up. I think the optimum angle (for a boat) is about 30 degrees off of the wind on either side. The elusive component that allows a sailboar to move forwards and not just blow sideways is the keel or board. The boat has what is literally a wing flying through the water underneath it. The propulsion (other than on a run, when you have a floating parachute) is caused by the fighting of the wing under the water against the wing in the air (the sail).
If you had a wide trike, you could probably sail crosswind. The keel's job would be provided by the wheels (preventing the sideways motion of the craft) and as long as the rig was wide enough to be stable, you could probably get some speed up.
The biggest problem is that you are heavily limited by the direction of the wind, so you would probably only be able to sail in a large open area, like the salt flats or a big sports field. I don't think that a sail would be able to provide any advantages or even be very feasable in town or on trails, unfortunately.
That said, I'll put in a six pack to the first person to create a sailbike capable of traveling crosswind at speeds greater than the measured wind (without pedal/motor assistance, naturally). Gentlemen (and ladies); start your welders!
A run, when the wind is at your back, allows you to approach the speed of the wind and applies little to no tipping force to the craft.
When the sail is hauled in and the craft turned to cross the wind, then the speed picks up. I think the optimum angle (for a boat) is about 30 degrees off of the wind on either side. The elusive component that allows a sailboar to move forwards and not just blow sideways is the keel or board. The boat has what is literally a wing flying through the water underneath it. The propulsion (other than on a run, when you have a floating parachute) is caused by the fighting of the wing under the water against the wing in the air (the sail).
If you had a wide trike, you could probably sail crosswind. The keel's job would be provided by the wheels (preventing the sideways motion of the craft) and as long as the rig was wide enough to be stable, you could probably get some speed up.
The biggest problem is that you are heavily limited by the direction of the wind, so you would probably only be able to sail in a large open area, like the salt flats or a big sports field. I don't think that a sail would be able to provide any advantages or even be very feasable in town or on trails, unfortunately.
That said, I'll put in a six pack to the first person to create a sailbike capable of traveling crosswind at speeds greater than the measured wind (without pedal/motor assistance, naturally). Gentlemen (and ladies); start your welders!
A well rigged bike should be able to hit speeds far greater than wind speed on sail power alone. Skate sail like speeds shouldn't be a challenge. (We never recorded wind speeds but I have done over 40 - half again what the fastest kid in a pickup hockey game could do - and my dad was clocked once at 60 on police radar.) Good ice boats go 3X wind speed and I think 5X would be achievable with a full wing sail and complete fairing.
#70
Junior Member
Yes you can
I built a skateboard wind surfer. Took it to Jack Murphy Stadium parking lot. Lots of fun. Ice boats were the fastest thing before airplanes. In the desert they run trikes on dry lake beds. It has all been done. Bike might work but not as good as a trike. You must balance the load.
Last edited by Lawrence Rhodes; 09-08-18 at 08:58 AM. Reason: Typo
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Outrigger Sail Bike
There have been many variants of sail bikes in the past, just google it. A while back I decided that I would developed my own rendition. With the help of a few technical engineering friends, add beer, the ideas started flowing. After several months, several prototypes, and several beers the outcome was the Outrigger Sail Bike, but we just call it the Code Zero. Check out my album or look it up on Instagram. I will post photos as soon as I have at least 10 posts
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When this thread was born in 2005, sail bikes were illegal in all 48 states.
Zombie Thread alert!
For Sale in 2012: https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/19...-00-obo.18548/
Zombie Thread alert!
For Sale in 2012: https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/19...-00-obo.18548/
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I don’t care if it’s a zombie thread, it’s great