Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Framebuilders
Reload this Page >

PVC Pipe for frame?

Notices
Framebuilders Thinking about a custom frame? Lugged vs Fillet Brazed. Different Frame materials? Newvex or Pacenti Lugs? why get a custom Road, Mountain, or Track Frame? Got a question about framebuilding? Lets discuss framebuilding at it's finest.

PVC Pipe for frame?

Old 03-11-21, 12:50 AM
  #26  
MrInitialMan
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
MrInitialMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 188

Bikes: Best described as "What is that?!"

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 70 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times in 6 Posts
Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart View Post
Joke? It was lost on me, what with 81 posts it looks like others were also fooled. Here's the link to the thread I'm talking about. Velo: Thus far, thus bonkers - Bike Forums Andy
That design didn't have 8 wheels, Mr. Stewart. The joke design I'm referring to is in https://www.bikeforums.net/framebuil...arcycle-d.html.
MrInitialMan is offline  
Old 03-11-21, 06:46 AM
  #27  
guy153
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 574
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 206 Post(s)
Liked 116 Times in 94 Posts
Originally Posted by MrInitialMan View Post
That design didn't have 8 wheels, Mr. Stewart. The joke design I'm referring to is in https://www.bikeforums.net/framebuil...arcycle-d.html.
Actually that has got me thinking about an inline three-wheeler with rocker bogey suspension. There are still quite a few challenges with the concept however.
guy153 is offline  
Old 03-11-21, 08:59 AM
  #28  
AdkMtnMonster
Airplanes, bikes, beer.
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Off the front
Posts: 642

Bikes: Road bikes, mountain bikes, a gravel bike…

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 333 Post(s)
Liked 653 Times in 283 Posts
After watching the Utah Trikes video, I *REALLY* want to see a fully enclosed plywood version with a rear bench seat, full suspension, floor, the “driver” and two parents and a tuba inside rolling down the road. Any road. Paved, dirt, frozen, muddy, rutted, unplowed, tore up from beer-swillin’ yahoos in their brodozers... you name it! I’ve got the popcorn popped, extra buttery, and the couch pillows are all fluffed up! Bring it!
AdkMtnMonster is offline  
Old 03-11-21, 11:30 AM
  #29  
guy153
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 574
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 206 Post(s)
Liked 116 Times in 94 Posts
Originally Posted by AdkMtnMonster View Post
After watching the Utah Trikes video, I *REALLY* want to see a fully enclosed plywood version with a rear bench seat, full suspension, floor, the “driver” and two parents and a tuba inside rolling down the road. Any road. Paved, dirt, frozen, muddy, rutted, unplowed, tore up from beer-swillin’ yahoos in their brodozers... you name it! I’ve got the popcorn popped, extra buttery, and the couch pillows are all fluffed up! Bring it!
I'll watch the video I was thinking inline trike inspired by the 6-wheeler and 8-wheeler cars. So all three wheels in a line and you ride it like a regular bike. That car design is actually not as mad as it at first sounds and does have a few things going for it.
guy153 is offline  
Old 03-13-21, 02:24 AM
  #30  
MrInitialMan
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
MrInitialMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 188

Bikes: Best described as "What is that?!"

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 70 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times in 6 Posts
Originally Posted by squirtdad View Post
The cynical side of me says these guys really just want to sell plans. I really question if these really work.

Some warning signs for me in include the note the pvc must be reinforced with wood or a metal pipe, there are no pictures of anyone sitting on these things, and there are no pictures of details like bottom bracket and crank setup

also PVC get really brittle in the cold which we know Alberta has.

This is so far off your long stated design goals that you should just rethink them

i.e forget quad go for 3 wheel, one in back and 2 in front, forget suspension and use big tires, super light outside covering, and so on. Good luck
I was thinking about how to best answer this, thus the delay in replying.

I was looking at this for ideas, not necessarily to directly copy.

My goals are, and have always been:

1) Must be stable. Yes, recumbent trikes are stable, HOWEVER:

2) Ingress and Egress must be reasonably easy. By the time a recumbent trike is low enough to be stable, it's so low that, with the baking show's worth of lard padding my seat, it's hard to get out of. Some trikes I almost had to roll off the seat onto my hands and knees, then get up. Therefore...

1a) Must be stable with a relatively high center of gravity.

3) Must provide some protection from weather.

4) Must have a smooth ride. Honestly, fat tires looked tempting, until I found out how squishy they are. I've ridden on half-flat tires before. No fun. Thus the suspension.

5) Be COMFY. Which is why I wanted to go the recumbent route in the first place.

6) Be nice to look at... and I kind of like the look of old cars, on which my original design was VERY loosely based.

7) Must have decent carrying capacity, including room for saxophone or guitar, or groceries.

Last edited by MrInitialMan; 03-13-21 at 08:15 PM.
MrInitialMan is offline  
Old 03-15-21, 04:02 PM
  #31  
squirtdad
Senior Member
 
squirtdad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Jose (Willow Glen) Ca
Posts: 7,613

Bikes: 85 team Miyata (modern 5800 105) , '84 Team Miyata,(dura ace old school) '82 nishiski,

Mentioned: 72 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1385 Post(s)
Liked 684 Times in 472 Posts
Originally Posted by MrInitialMan View Post
I was thinking about how to best answer this, thus the delay in replying.

I was looking at this for ideas, not necessarily to directly copy.

My goals are, and have always been:

1) Must be stable. Yes, recumbent trikes are stable, HOWEVER:

2) Ingress and Egress must be reasonably easy. By the time a recumbent trike is low enough to be stable, it's so low that, with the baking show's worth of lard padding my seat, it's hard to get out of. Some trikes I almost had to roll off the seat onto my hands and knees, then get up. Therefore...

1a) Must be stable with a relatively high center of gravity.

3) Must provide some protection from weather.

4) Must have a smooth ride. Honestly, fat tires looked tempting, until I found out how squishy they are. I've ridden on half-flat tires before. No fun. Thus the suspension.

5) Be COMFY. Which is why I wanted to go the recumbent route in the first place.

6) Be nice to look at... and I kind of like the look of old cars, on which my original design was VERY loosely based.

7) Must have decent carrying capacity, including room for saxophone or guitar, or groceries.
Here are my thoughts for you, many are probably repeats from before, I would truly like to see you succeed, but to do that you may need to make choices and remember KISS (Keep it Simple Silly)

Bottom line is you really want something you can use, otherwise why it is just an art project, nothing wring with art projects per se, but I understand you goal is to have something you can and will use

weight is critical, if you build something that weighs 145 kilos and then add a 100 kilos of person and 25 kilos of stuff, it will be slow, hard to get up hills and dangerous coming down hill. Every little feature adds weight, you would have to be ruthless in this area

There always constraints, weight, cost, material, time, skills, knowledge, experience. If you had a full on carbon fiber faclities and engineers and $100k budget you might be able to build what you want and it still work, otherwise building in the barn with steel tube, etc it is going to be harder and you will have to compromise

Not all recumbents are low....see some pics later

stable and high center of gravity oppose each other in physics

the economic concept of TANSTAAFL (there ain't no such thing as a free lunch) applies to everything you , I.e. you make a very weather proof enclosure out of 1/4 " ply wood....cook but adds weight and look out for the headwinds

best for weather is proper clothing

I would suggest you think more bike and trailer to get what your are looking at

A higher seat 3 wheeler like this has suspension and with 2 wheels in back you probably you can use some of what you already have gives you a lot of what your are looking for. you could set up some weather protection with fiber glass poles (think backpacking tent poles) fabric and clear sail material (think windsurfing sails as a material example) you can get plans and it does not look like a hugely complicated build https://www.atomiczombie.com/timberw...rike-diy-plan/



and for more haulage a trailer





some things out there for inspiration


__________________
Life is too short not to ride the best bike you have, as much as you can
squirtdad is offline  
Likes For squirtdad:
Old 03-17-21, 04:38 AM
  #32  
MrInitialMan
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
MrInitialMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 188

Bikes: Best described as "What is that?!"

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 70 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times in 6 Posts
Been thinking about this. I think I will forgo the floor I originally had in mind. I'll just have to either learn to avoid puddles, or have just a partial floor that ends before the pedals (A thin sheet of plastic--like a snow carpet--should protect me from splashes from below.)

Also, going to see about getting some materials of my own--and maybe a pickup truck to transport them in. The steel I originally used was waaaaaaay too thick.

The suspension of the trike looks interesting, and while I'm still wanting front suspension, I ran across Sliding Pole suspension, which is where the poles the front spindles turn on are elongated to include coil springs. Should be reasonably light and simple.


The reason I was looking at these PVC plans is, well, I don't know how to weld, and I'm a) a bit old to teach myself anymore and b) if I tried to take a class, I'd likely be laughed out of it due to me being almost middle-aged, and thus should have learned welding long ago. :-/
MrInitialMan is offline  
Old 03-17-21, 11:32 AM
  #33  
guy153
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 574
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 206 Post(s)
Liked 116 Times in 94 Posts
Originally Posted by MrInitialMan View Post

The reason I was looking at these PVC plans is, well, I don't know how to weld, and I'm a) a bit old to teach myself anymore and b) if I tried to take a class, I'd likely be laughed out of it due to me being almost middle-aged, and thus should have learned welding long ago. :-/
Seriously it's not hard. "Too old to learn", and "almost middle-aged" does not compute. You don't need to go on a class. I learnt everything from YouTube and have made several bikes which haven't fallen apart. If I can do it anyone can as I am a huge klutz. For your project you don't need to learn TIG (which is harder and the equipment more expensive). Buy a cheap flux-core welder (a couple of hundred $) and a self-darkening hood (so you can weld with both hands-- much easier) and give it a go. If you post pictures here we can help out.

This is really going to be a whole lot easier than trying to make it out of PVC or wood or something!
guy153 is offline  
Old 03-20-21, 06:58 PM
  #34  
MrInitialMan
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
MrInitialMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 188

Bikes: Best described as "What is that?!"

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 70 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times in 6 Posts
Sorry about my last post, everyone. I'd been up all night and was feeling more down than usual.
MrInitialMan is offline  
Likes For MrInitialMan:
Old 03-21-21, 10:38 AM
  #35  
Doug Fattic 
framebuilder
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Niles, Michigan
Posts: 870
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 305 Post(s)
Liked 639 Times in 260 Posts
Originally Posted by MrInitialMan View Post
The reason I was looking at these PVC plans is, well, I don't know how to weld, and I'm a) a bit old to teach myself anymore and b) if I tried to take a class, I'd likely be laughed out of it due to me being almost middle-aged, and thus should have learned welding long ago. :-/
Lots of my framebuilding class students are retirees wanting to do something interesting with their lives before they die. All of them learn to braze just fine (although some of them wouldn't have been able to become masters even if they had started when they were young). Brazing is a bit easier to learn than TIG welding. One guy was given my class to him by his children as a retirement gift. He really didn't want to do it but his wife told him he had no choice because they had done a lot of thinking and studying of options for him. He ended up having a great time anyway despite his initial reluctance.
Doug Fattic is offline  
Likes For Doug Fattic:
Old 03-28-21, 08:59 AM
  #36  
preyj
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 13
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by guy153 View Post
It's much easier to learn to weld than it is to make a chassis or bike frame out of PVC pipe! Especially if you aren't too bothered about weight-- you can use thicker steel (like 1.6mm) and buzz it together with a flux-core welder, which only costs 100 notes or so. People are a bit snobbish about flux-core but with a little practice and a decent quality wire you can make an acceptable joint on material between about 1.6mm and 2mm thickness.
You can be up and running with a small welder in a day but it will take practice to to make a decent weld and understand what amps, etc. mean to the metal you working with. Another consideration is cutting pipe / tubing. A decent pipe cutter or the Milwaukee metal cutting circular saw are my choices.
preyj is offline  
Old 03-28-21, 10:05 AM
  #37  
Andrew R Stewart 
Senior Member
 
Andrew R Stewart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 15,050

Bikes: Stewart S&S coupled sport tourer, Stewart Sunday light, Stewart Commuting, Stewart Touring, Co Motion Tandem, Stewart 3-Spd, Stewart Track, Fuji Finest, Raleigh Pro, Trek Cycle Cross, Mongoose tomac ATB, GT Bravado ATB, JCP Folder

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2973 Post(s)
Liked 1,259 Times in 882 Posts
Originally Posted by preyj View Post
You can be up and running with a small welder in a day but it will take practice to to make a decent weld and understand what amps, etc. mean to the metal you working with. Another consideration is cutting pipe / tubing. A decent pipe cutter or the Milwaukee metal cutting circular saw are my choices.

This welding learning thing reminds me of what a Chinese restaurant owner told me years ago. It only takes a few minute to learn how to eat with chop sticks. But a lifetime to become good at it. 35 years later I still agree.

As to cutting/mitering the tubes I would not suggest a pipe cutter (assuming the rolling wheel type) as most tubes most people will want to use will have thin enough walls so the tube will just flex away from the roller and the cutter can easily "walk" it's way down the tube's length as you run it around the tube. Hack saws, hole saws, grinders (i use a bench mounted one for roughing out some miters) and hand files are the low cost go tos for most of us when we started out. Andy
__________________
AndrewRStewart
Andrew R Stewart is offline  
Likes For Andrew R Stewart:
Old 03-28-21, 11:33 AM
  #38  
guy153
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 574
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 206 Post(s)
Liked 116 Times in 94 Posts
Originally Posted by preyj View Post
You can be up and running with a small welder in a day but it will take practice to to make a decent weld and understand what amps, etc. mean to the metal you working with. Another consideration is cutting pipe / tubing. A decent pipe cutter or the Milwaukee metal cutting circular saw are my choices.
Those are fine choices but an angle grinder with a cutoff wheel will do the job. As for making decent welds yes a bit of practice. The best thing for anyone starting out is break tests. If your welds are poor you will be able to break them. I'm talking here about flux-core welding 16-gauge mild steel for projects like the OP's proposed velomobile chassis. If you want to weld thin-wall bike tubes you need to learn TIG, thin-wall, thick-to-thin, and passing a break test is only the beginning of a good weld. I still think anyone can learn this but it takes a lot more practice.

Speaking of flux-core welds of velomobiles this guy's project is pretty interesting:


By his own account his welding is a bit of a "horror show" but it's good enough. He's very good at the machining and design aspects though.
guy153 is offline  
Old 05-14-21, 03:53 PM
  #39  
squirtdad
Senior Member
 
squirtdad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Jose (Willow Glen) Ca
Posts: 7,613

Bikes: 85 team Miyata (modern 5800 105) , '84 Team Miyata,(dura ace old school) '82 nishiski,

Mentioned: 72 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1385 Post(s)
Liked 684 Times in 472 Posts
this may be on interest......

6 wheel bicycle, huge, ~20 mph electric. 5' x 10' - $1,600 (willow glen / cambrian)

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/bik/d/san-jose-wheel-bicycle-huge-20-mph/7315728264.html

__________________
Life is too short not to ride the best bike you have, as much as you can
squirtdad is offline  
Likes For squirtdad:
Old 05-14-21, 04:10 PM
  #40  
unterhausen
Randomhead
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Posts: 21,644
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 1,350 Times in 978 Posts
It's for sale because they tried to ride it uphill.

I'm always curious why people undergo an elaborate project like that without looking at what anyone else has done. Afraid they might learn something, I guess
unterhausen is offline  
Likes For unterhausen:
Old 05-15-21, 11:08 AM
  #41  
squirtdad
Senior Member
 
squirtdad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Jose (Willow Glen) Ca
Posts: 7,613

Bikes: 85 team Miyata (modern 5800 105) , '84 Team Miyata,(dura ace old school) '82 nishiski,

Mentioned: 72 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1385 Post(s)
Liked 684 Times in 472 Posts
Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
It's for sale because they tried to ride it uphill.

I'm always curious why people undergo an elaborate project like that without looking at what anyone else has done. Afraid they might learn something, I guess
it looks like it has a carbon bottle holder cage....weight counts
__________________
Life is too short not to ride the best bike you have, as much as you can
squirtdad is offline  
Likes For squirtdad:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.