Groupset tiers and diminishing returns
09-15-21, 01:45 PM
#251
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Resolved--swiss is better than cheddar on a cheeseburger.
09-15-21, 02:00 PM
#252
Klaatu..Verata..Necktie?
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Interesting. you start out looking for something "objective" but before we get to the end, we find it's about what interests you. So I guess when you write "objective", you mean the opposite, "subjective".
(Some other guy on this thread would pull out his fancy "reducto ad absurdum" and tell you that you would care about weight if the difference were a million pounds, thereby concluding that you were not telling the truth about caring about weight. But that indeed would be absurd. The small difference in weight between DA and Ultegra doesn't matter to you. I have no interest in convincing you otherwise)
I have no idea what subjective benefits DA has that might interest you, so.I won't try.
Speaking personally and without regard for whether or not this impresses you or anybody else, I would simply point out that I was not buying a groupset, but rather a bike that came with a groupset. So the bike that came with DA had many other features that I sought, and in addition I was happy to be getting the the drive train that was light weight and had DI2 (available also with Ultegra, but not 105). The price differential between the DA bike with additional components that I wanted and the bikes with other groupsets and different sets of those other components was within a range that was not consequential to my decision.
I own 2 bikes with different vintage DA drive trains. I own 3 bikes with different vintage 105 drive trains (well, one of those is GRX 600, but that's approximately 105 level). I'm mostly happy with them all except for the oldest 105, which I think is 5600, and doesn't shift nearly as smoothly as, say, the mid-aged 105, which is 5800 and really pretty great. But the 5800 doesn't shift as smoothly as the 9150. Well, of course not, it's not electronic.
The DA bikes are much lighter than the others - both around 15 lbs. The specific weight of the drive trains isn't really how I think of it, but rather, it's the overall weight of the bikes. To make a light bike, you need to shave a little here, a little there. Each individual choice (this wheel vs. that wheel, this drive train vs. that) is small, but the accrued difference is larger.
(Some other guy on this thread would pull out his fancy "reducto ad absurdum" and tell you that you would care about weight if the difference were a million pounds, thereby concluding that you were not telling the truth about caring about weight. But that indeed would be absurd. The small difference in weight between DA and Ultegra doesn't matter to you. I have no interest in convincing you otherwise)
I have no idea what subjective benefits DA has that might interest you, so.I won't try.
Speaking personally and without regard for whether or not this impresses you or anybody else, I would simply point out that I was not buying a groupset, but rather a bike that came with a groupset. So the bike that came with DA had many other features that I sought, and in addition I was happy to be getting the the drive train that was light weight and had DI2 (available also with Ultegra, but not 105). The price differential between the DA bike with additional components that I wanted and the bikes with other groupsets and different sets of those other components was within a range that was not consequential to my decision.
I own 2 bikes with different vintage DA drive trains. I own 3 bikes with different vintage 105 drive trains (well, one of those is GRX 600, but that's approximately 105 level). I'm mostly happy with them all except for the oldest 105, which I think is 5600, and doesn't shift nearly as smoothly as, say, the mid-aged 105, which is 5800 and really pretty great. But the 5800 doesn't shift as smoothly as the 9150. Well, of course not, it's not electronic.
The DA bikes are much lighter than the others - both around 15 lbs. The specific weight of the drive trains isn't really how I think of it, but rather, it's the overall weight of the bikes. To make a light bike, you need to shave a little here, a little there. Each individual choice (this wheel vs. that wheel, this drive train vs. that) is small, but the accrued difference is larger.
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09-15-21, 02:26 PM
#253
Klaatu..Verata..Necktie?
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I pick red, except when I pick blue.
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"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."
"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."
"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles
09-15-21, 02:30 PM
#254
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For my first "good bike" purchase, a long time ago, I had it narrowed down to a red LeMond and a gray Giant. They were both just slightly above entry-level. The Giant somehow seemed more sophisticated and modern, with its aluminum frame, but the LeMond was RED - so I picked it. Only much later, as I learned about such things, did I realize what I had: a frame built of Reynolds 853 steel, with tremendous workmanship and a velvet-smooth ride. Many miles and many upgrades later, I still have that frame.
09-15-21, 02:35 PM
#255
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Just thinking about building up a new road bike for next season. Money no object build but....
I'm really struggling to see any point in going for a top tier groupset i.e. DuraAce/Red Etap/Super Record. They just don't seem to offer any advantage remotely in proportion to their extra cost over second or even third tier groups.
Other than vanity and a few pointless gram savings, is there any point?
I'm really struggling to see any point in going for a top tier groupset i.e. DuraAce/Red Etap/Super Record. They just don't seem to offer any advantage remotely in proportion to their extra cost over second or even third tier groups.
Other than vanity and a few pointless gram savings, is there any point?
09-15-21, 02:49 PM
#256
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I cannot think of a single thing where the quality of an item and the price increase at the same rate. At the end of the day, everyone makes their own decision as to the value of a few grams or the prestige, or whatever other real or perceived advantage that they see in a top of the line part.
