newbert

The (mostly paved) bike path near me has signs posted "No Motor Vehicles". (It also says "No Dogs Allowed" but people walk their dogs there all the time, but I digress.) I just bought a recumbent trike with e-assist and want to use it on this path. So I'm wondering whether an e-bike/trike is considered to be a "motor vehicle" in this context?

After all, it does have a motor and 2 or 3 wheels, but OTOH it does not require a registration/license plate. Plus it can be used without activating the e-power at all (although I usually need it to provide m a boost, when necessary).

So are they or are they not "motor vehicles"?

Thanks!

gpburdell

Legality of riding on a MUP depends on jurisdiction and in some places the classification/power output of the ebike.

I'd suggest looking up the ebike specifics for your nation / province / state.

As you note regarding dogs - signage / laws and enforcement thereof can be very different things.

sloppy12

Depends. check local laws. were I am at they are fine not considered a motor vehicle.

Moe Zhoost

In most cases, no. Best check your state and local laws.

2old

CA and 30 or so other states (haven't looked lately so I don't know the exact number) have a state law with the "Class" system. This defines three classes of electric bicycles, (750 W max) and basically 20 mph max PAS, 20 mph max throttle and 28 mph max PAS. The first two are usually allowed on bike paths while the third is reserved for the road or path contiguous with one. These are all defined as bicycles and legal unless specifically prohibited (in CA some paths have a "no electric bike" sign). Assuming you're in the US, look up the "people for bikes" site and your state will be defined.

newbert

Good info. Thanks Guys!

Jan Feetz

In the OC:

cat0020

2old

Any bike path in Orange County is OK for Class 1&2 bikes, by state law, unless it's prohibited specifically. I've ridden past at least three paths with this signage.

veganbikes

I mean if you are riding a bicycle you should be fine if you are riding a moped (ie: something with a throttle) then yeah don't ride on a bike path or MUP. Those have plenty of space on the roads.

Really the key to any bike path or multi use path is to respect all users and realize you are generally at the bottom unless you have those who abuse horses they are the absolute worst. If you ride as if others are there you are OK.

cat0020

"Bike paths" cover a lot of ground. Situation really depends on what type of other traffic you're sharing the "bike paths" with.
Pedestrians, children, hikers, pets, in-line skaters, equestrians, cattle, each of them could present a different speed for "safety" in sharing the trail.
But common sense is not so common,
especially when you have powerful ebikes combined with riders who thinks they can handle it when unfamiliar with its capabilities.
I hope regulations on ebikes would likely evolve into liability insurance requirement when you get caught breaking traffic laws & get into accidents repeatedly. Maybe mandatory safety class or licensing on ebikes would be required after repeated offenses and/or accidents?
Banning ALL ebikes from trails doesn't make much sense.

palincss

Even banning all Class 3 ebikes from trails doesn't necessarily make much sense. Although they do have the capacity for enormous abuse, in the end it's all down to the rider. I know several people who own Specialized Creo (etc) Class 3 ebikes, and none of them ride like hooligans. In fact, other than by appearance, you would never know they ride ebikes. At the same time, I've seen plenty of people riding mechanical bikes on the bike trail like total hooligans, in some cases even forcing people off the trail causing them to crash.

Calsun

Class III bikes are not the problem but rather Class II that do not require pedal assist and the pedestrians out on the bike paths. Pedestrians walking along at 1-2 mph and focusing on their smartphones and those walking dogs on the paths are the problem. They have no concept that they are on pavement where all bicyclists often move past at 15-20 mph on a regular basis regardless of whether a motor involved.

Since I rode an early bike path in Sacramento in 1974 it was hazardous as sight distances were very short and a cyclist would come around a bend and find the path blocked by walkers six abreast and the biker had to come to a complete stop to prevent serious injury. Transportation people have known for decades that it is hazardous to mix pedestrians and cyclists but the politics prevent any commons sense action taking place. We don't allow a bicyclist traveling at 15 mph to share the freeways with cars and trucks traveling at 65 mph but the difference in speeds is just as great with bikes and pedestrians (and their young children in strollers and their pets on a leash).

Our city streets have been effectively planned by the auto, oil, and real estate industries. Starting after World War II, General Motors, Firestone Tire, and Standard Oil conspired to buy up all the electric street car operations in the United States and then they ripped out the rails and set fire to all the streetcars. They effectively forced people into cars to be able to get to work, to school, to a park, to go shopping. This is why American cities and streets are so dangerous for cyclists and pedestrians, it is by design to benefit key industries that decide how land use planning is done. Las Vegas has gone so far as to eliminate sidewalks so as to force pedestrians to walk through the casinos.

The safest place for cyclists is on city streets and least safe where there are bike lanes. Bike paths in urban areas make so many compromises that they are best avoided for anyone interested in getting a good ride in.

veganbikes

While I don't disagree on the Class 2 part and that people should pay attention just in general bicycles are the lowest rung on the Multi Use Path (not counting horse abusers), consider us cyclists to be big honkin' SUVs in some cases driven by more responsible drivers and in some cases by people who couldn't hold a straight line if it was glued to them with CA glue. I know it is tough to hold that belief as a cyclist and tough to hear but it is the truth. If it is a pure cycling path then we are at the top but for pedestrian paths we aren't. Everyone needs to pay attention and share the path and never act as if it is their path. No need to be rude or nasty no matter who you are or what you are doing.

Now I will state this I do not believe that any throttled vehicles belong on any multi use path if it is also for pedestrians and cyclists if it is a purely motorized path that is where you belong. This includes e-scooters and Segways and mopeds and whatever else you want to call it. If it is not taking physical effort for you to move forward then you don't need to be on the path at all.

No matter who you are or where you are, you should pay attention to your surroundings. If you find yourself needing to take attention away that is fine move over off the path and do what you need to do or keep just enough attention to move in a controlled manner, no weaving about or things like that. Keep on the same trajectory. If you do have small kids or large kids teach them to do the same and pay attention no matter what they are doing. If you are riding as a group make sure you are keeping them inwards so you can try and control them from straying into the opposite side of the path.

northernjeep

One of the MUP's near my home has a yellow line down it's middle. And just a few feet over there is a sidewalk. Last summer I'm om my delta trike on the MUP when I come up on 3 shall we say larger ladies walking side by side taking up the whole path. So I slow down to just over a walking pace and move over to the grass to pass them. Now they were all talking and paying no attention to the surroundings and when I passed very slowly they yelled at me Where's your horn? In the interests of decorum I refrained from what would have have my usual sarcastic reply and instead jus pedaled away. And yes my trike is e-assist and has a throttle and in my city it is completley legal

speedy25

To directly answer the OP's question- BICYCLES that meet the legal requirements for bicycle classifications are counted as bicycles for path use. Those signs are for people with gasoline powered vehicles that are also usually registered as motor vehicles, even though they really have engines and not motors. Some places have sticks up their butts and think e-bikes are a threat to world peace and have put up signs to ban them, but be aware of FAKE signs as well.

Go Ride!

-SP

igorgroks

In California all bikes are by law vehicles. E-bikes have motors. QED.

Calsun

In California bicyclists are obligated to behave like motorists and that includes coming to a stop at stop signs and at traffic lights. Bicyclists are not allowed on "freeways" which are defined as highways where there is no "at grade"crossing of other traffic of any kind. If there are "at grade" crossings then it is not a "freeway" and bicyclists cannot legally be prohibited. Of course that assumes that the local law officers follow the law which is often not the case. The first "freeway" in the country was built for bicyclists and went from Pasadena to Los Angeles.

California state officials have interpreted the laws as to allow bicyclists on e-bikes to have full access to bike paths regardless of the class of e-bike. On the other hand there are cities, like Pacific Grove, that have passed ordinances that set a speed limit on the bike paths of 12 mph for all bicyclists regardless of what type of bike they are riding. One can get a speeding ticket for exceeding the posted speed limit on city streets and the police in Santa Barbara had a speed trap operating on State Street to catch bicyclists.

This was to deal with bike and pedestrian collisions as the bike path in this area is clogged with pedestrians and people out with baby strollers and so it is a very hazardous area as a result. When riding my wife and I prefer the city streets to the bike path in many areas as it is safer and more enjoyable.

I worked for the California Division of Highways to create guidelines for bike lanes and paths for their engineers but in the 50 years since there are seldom ones created that increase the safety of cyclists. Bike lanes in particular are more hazardous than streets without lanes and the parked cars. Heaven forbid that taxpayers not provide subsidized parking for motorists on the streets. Bicyclists are at the bottom of the heap with all motor vehicles and pedestrians taking predence in this country when it comes to traffic planning and this is not going to change. A plus is that vehicles with internal compbustion engines are slowly being replaced with electric vehicles which make the cities healthier for everyone when the air is safe to breahe.

linberl

It is a violation of the Vehicle Code in Ca. for pedestrians to walk on the bike lane if there is an adjacent pedestrian path. Most pedestrians are ignorant of this fact, and it doesn't do any good to tell them, however nicely. I've seen plenty of police traps to catch cyclists who roll stop signs but I've never ever seen a police person give a second look at peds walking the bike lane (or people parking in the street marked bike lanes either). I don't move off the path when riding my trike... I ding my bell multiple times starting a good distance away, if that doesn't work I yell out "on your left" and "bicycle behind" and if that doesn't work then I assume they have in earbuds and hit my air horn. If they get nasty, I let them know I tried to alert them nicely at first and if they are going to walk illegally in the bike lanes and also not pay attention, they give me no other choice but to use the air horn. Otoh, I always thank pedestrians who move aside.

igorgroks

Joggers (yes I know it "runners" but I also like the tweak the Trekkers by calling them Trekkies.) often run in the bike lanes because there is a common myth that asphalt is softer than concrete, and therefore easier on the feet. It is true that asphalt is softer than concrete, but the difference in hardness between either concrete or asphalt and the soles of your shoes, or even bare feet, is insignificant.

linberl

There's a dirt runner track right next to my fav bike pathway but they run (90%) on the bike lane anyway. Sheesh.

Jan Feetz

Here in So Cal, particularly in the costal areas of the OC persons riding ebikes are becoming a menace. Its a real bad look for cyclists overall.

2old

I visited my son who resides in a fairly ritzy section of Mission Viejo, and we ate at an outside courtyard. During the time we were there, about 15 bikes came and went, only two of which weren't "e". Amazing (to me) was the 10 - 12 Super 73's ridden by young kids (sometimes with a passenger); didn't seem as though any were pedaling. Some sped along sidewalks with no regard for pedestrians.

Jan Feetz

Cyclists are supposed to look out for pedestrians, not the other way around, right? It will be only a matter of time before a serious injury/fatality occurs......but that would be another topic for discussion. Not this thread.

linberl

In the above example, those are teenagers first who just happened to be riding bicycles. They'd do the same on those stupid electric scooters or skateboards. Has nothing to do with the type of vehicle; it's irresponsible teen behavior. I think it's really important to not define "all cyclists" by the behavior of a small group. That would be like defining all drivers by the behavior of the ones who text, drink, speed. The reality is that most cyclists and drivers are not out causing mayhem.