Nagging question: is "vulcanizing fluid" just plain old rubber cement?
#76
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3 pages on rubber cement, TLDR, but I use Slime rubber cement. Came in one of those "standard size rubber cement" canisters, and cost me like $8. I'm sure it will dry up before I use it all, but the times I've used it, it's worked perfectly. Important part is getting the legitimate Rema patches though.
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https://www.amazon.com/Rema-25mm-Round-Patches-100/dp/B0017RV5K4/ref=mp_s_a_1_1/135-9705877-8216945?ie=UTF8&qid=1541459081&sr=8-1&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=rema+tire+patch&dpPl=1&dpID=61zJxEIZkmL&ref=plSrch
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#79
Kit doesn't match
I find the 25 mm patches too big for most road tubes, so I use the 16 mm jobs:
https://www.amazon.com/Rema-F0-P-16m.../dp/B001S36CNC
https://www.amazon.com/Rema-F0-P-16m.../dp/B001S36CNC
You can get a box of 100 Rema patches for less than US$20:
https://www.amazon.com/Rema-25mm-Rou...kmL&ref=plSrch
https://www.amazon.com/Rema-25mm-Rou...kmL&ref=plSrch
#80
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vulcanizing glue is not the same as rubber cement.
The reason you see some patch kits w/ glue say "rubber cement" is the same reason this exists:
vulcanizing cement works with the backside of the patch to chemically bond to the innertube
rubber cement is just an adhesive
The reason you see some patch kits w/ glue say "rubber cement" is the same reason this exists:
vulcanizing cement works with the backside of the patch to chemically bond to the innertube
rubber cement is just an adhesive
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I loaned out a bike & it got a big staple in the tubular tire.
The little patch kit glue tube was partly gone off, & one of the patches (staple went all the way through the tube) didn't hold.
Redid it with contact cement, which worked well.
Apparently, the above sign means "keep off the grass".
The little patch kit glue tube was partly gone off, & one of the patches (staple went all the way through the tube) didn't hold.
Redid it with contact cement, which worked well.
Apparently, the above sign means "keep off the grass".
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"I like your smile (I bet you do from down there!!) but don't like when you step on my face" = keep off the grass with some chinese humor. I imagine some of those symbols may have some interesting double meanings.
#83
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Could you please run a test using just inner tube for a patch?
I bought a bag of little tubes of glue from China some years ago
but the patches failed. No one else has suffered this fate so
perhaps it was just an outlier.
I bought a bag of little tubes of glue from China some years ago
but the patches failed. No one else has suffered this fate so
perhaps it was just an outlier.
#84
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Quick glance through ingredients shows:
Elmer's No-Wrinkle Rubber Cement
>70% Heptane
20-25% natural latex rubber
1-5% Isopropol alcohol
Rema Vulcanizing Fluid
60-95% Naphtha, petroleum, hydrotreated light
1-2.5% N-Ethylcyclohexylamine
other brands also contains: acetone, heptane, trichlorethylene, zinc-dibutyl dithiocarbamate/dibutylamine
Now we can see that the office-stationary "rubber cement" is clearly of different composition than "vulcanizing fluid" regardless of how it's labeled. Leave a bottle of rubber-cement open and you end up with a ball of rubber about 25% the size of the container. Leave a bottle of vulcanizing fluid open and it evaporates to nothing; very different stuff. The N-Ethylcyclohexylamine is a vulcanizing accelerator/catalyst which speeds up vulcanizing enough to occur at room-temperature (heat does the same thing). Ever see "RTV" on various rubber-sealants like caulk? The red uncured rubber on the patches provides the sulfur and in the old days with skinwall tyres, you can see a brown circle appearing on your tyre if you install the patched tube right away. This is caused by the release of various gases during the curing process.
A lot has changed in the past 20-30 years. Just because there was only one way to vulcanize rubber 30-years ago, doesn't mean that technology hasn't improved. Look at how materials technology has improved in frame materials, and how mechanical engineering designs created index shifting. Auto and computer technology has improved significantly in the past 30-years.
In the end, it's not an all-or-nothing, black & white, yes/no issue on patches. It comes down to a shades-of-grey on how well various compounds holds a patch to a tube. I'll do a demo video of "rubber cement" versus "vulcanizing fluid" after 24-hrs curing and show how easy or difficult it is to pull off a patch using both these products.
Elmer's No-Wrinkle Rubber Cement
>70% Heptane
20-25% natural latex rubber
1-5% Isopropol alcohol
Rema Vulcanizing Fluid
60-95% Naphtha, petroleum, hydrotreated light
1-2.5% N-Ethylcyclohexylamine
other brands also contains: acetone, heptane, trichlorethylene, zinc-dibutyl dithiocarbamate/dibutylamine
Now we can see that the office-stationary "rubber cement" is clearly of different composition than "vulcanizing fluid" regardless of how it's labeled. Leave a bottle of rubber-cement open and you end up with a ball of rubber about 25% the size of the container. Leave a bottle of vulcanizing fluid open and it evaporates to nothing; very different stuff. The N-Ethylcyclohexylamine is a vulcanizing accelerator/catalyst which speeds up vulcanizing enough to occur at room-temperature (heat does the same thing). Ever see "RTV" on various rubber-sealants like caulk? The red uncured rubber on the patches provides the sulfur and in the old days with skinwall tyres, you can see a brown circle appearing on your tyre if you install the patched tube right away. This is caused by the release of various gases during the curing process.
A lot has changed in the past 20-30 years. Just because there was only one way to vulcanize rubber 30-years ago, doesn't mean that technology hasn't improved. Look at how materials technology has improved in frame materials, and how mechanical engineering designs created index shifting. Auto and computer technology has improved significantly in the past 30-years.
In the end, it's not an all-or-nothing, black & white, yes/no issue on patches. It comes down to a shades-of-grey on how well various compounds holds a patch to a tube. I'll do a demo video of "rubber cement" versus "vulcanizing fluid" after 24-hrs curing and show how easy or difficult it is to pull off a patch using both these products.
You can get 8oz Slime rubber cement can for $6 at Pep Boys (more than twice expensive $15 on Ebay)
https://www.pepboys.com/slime-rubber...478?quantity=1 ]
via https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/22..._-_NA.pdf?1202
3 Composition/information on ingredients ·
Chemical characterization:
Mixtures · Components:
8032-32-4 Ligroine 40-60%
9003-35-4 Formaldehyde, oligomeric reaction products with phenol 10-20%
586-62-9 Terpinolene Asp. < 10%
Chemical characterization:
Mixtures · Components:
8032-32-4 Ligroine 40-60%
9003-35-4 Formaldehyde, oligomeric reaction products with phenol 10-20%
586-62-9 Terpinolene Asp. < 10%
Someone correctly pointed out, it's better to match REMA vulcanizing fluid with REMA patches (which I like, you can get 100 pack for $16 from Ebay)
I've used Elmer's Rubber Cement with varying success with REMA patches. Sometimes they seal, sometimes they don't
See also this other thread:
https://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-m...-cement-4.html
Last edited by chimpanzee; 10-13-19 at 01:59 AM.
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" on 16mm Rema patches for almost all road tube repairs, also " on the 100 pack. The next size up are handy for mountain tubes and bigger road tubes - just to use the patches, mostly, as 16mm are sufficient for punctures, if not cuts...
I get the smallest tubes of glue to carry with on the road - best not to open/puncture the seal until needed, then carry two tubes of glue, the opened one and a new one as well. I carry a spare inner tube, so hardly ever patch on the road.
The larger tubes of glue stay home.
Try this: before putting your tube of glue away after use, hold it cap side up and carefully squeeze out all the air, such that an arc of liquid is bulging out, then put the lil' lid on there - now there's no air in the tube, and you've lost only the solvent that's evaporated whilst the cap was off (an' don't leave the cap off while playing with your patch). Big difference, you'll find, especially if you're never allowing atmosphere to be drawn into the tube of glue in first place - uncap, maintaining pressure, squeeze out your drop, recap. Carry on.
I get the smallest tubes of glue to carry with on the road - best not to open/puncture the seal until needed, then carry two tubes of glue, the opened one and a new one as well. I carry a spare inner tube, so hardly ever patch on the road.
The larger tubes of glue stay home.
Try this: before putting your tube of glue away after use, hold it cap side up and carefully squeeze out all the air, such that an arc of liquid is bulging out, then put the lil' lid on there - now there's no air in the tube, and you've lost only the solvent that's evaporated whilst the cap was off (an' don't leave the cap off while playing with your patch). Big difference, you'll find, especially if you're never allowing atmosphere to be drawn into the tube of glue in first place - uncap, maintaining pressure, squeeze out your drop, recap. Carry on.
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You can get 8oz Slime rubber cement can for $6 at Pep Boys (more than twice expensive $15 on Ebay)
https://www.pepboys.com/slime-rubber...478?quantity=1 ]
via https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/22..._-_NA.pdf?1202
The chemicals don't match the ones for Rema (see above, in BOLD RED)
Someone correctly pointed out, it's better to match REMA vulcanizing fluid with REMA patches (which I like, you can get 100 pack for $16 from Ebay)
I've used Elmer's Rubber Cement with varying success with REMA patches. Sometimes they seal, sometimes they don't
See also this other thread:
https://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-m...-cement-4.html
[ Can also be obtained from Pep Boys for $5.36 (20% sale), or Walmart for $5.97 ]
The patch with Elmer's rubber-cement failed for a 700c tube. I cleaned it up, & used Slime rubber cement. The instructions made no mention of allowing it to completely dry (as in REMA vulcanizing vluid), so I applied the (used) patch with cement still wet (I did allow it to dry somewhat). It seems to work..!!
I returned the Elmer's Glue to Office Depot.
I've had car tire repairs, using a patch. The tire guy used a grinder to clean the roughen the tire, applied glue (Slime, Xtra Seal, whatever..), applied patch, then used a pizza-cutter type of tool to press it in.
Last edited by chimpanzee; 10-17-19 at 04:47 AM.
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Just got back from the local farmer's supply store and yes, they have Rema (And other brands) patch kit for sale. Tractor size...I guess you could cut them down or sell off the extra. No, I'm not a Farmer but they do have good prices on a lot things.
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So in essence can I use elmer's if I cut up an old inner tube or not? Do I still need special patches? What is different about the patches if so?
#90
Member
The picture on Amazon looks just like the Slime rubber cement picture in the previous posts.
From https://www.amazon.com/ask/questions...k_ql_ql_al_hza
The rubber cement itself is not vulcanizing. It activates with appropriate patches that are vulcanizing. It will work with all Slime patches to achieve your desired results.
ITW Global Brands
Manufacturer · June 25, 2018
From https://www.amazon.com/ask/questions...k_ql_ql_al_hza
Slime 1050 Rubber Cement - 8 oz.
Is this product considered to be a vulcanizing cement like xtra seal so that it can be used with mushroom type patches for radial tires?The rubber cement itself is not vulcanizing. It activates with appropriate patches that are vulcanizing. It will work with all Slime patches to achieve your desired results.
ITW Global Brands
Manufacturer · June 25, 2018
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Harbor Freight still sells a big tube of patches, now $5. https://www.harborfreight.com/inner-...kit-47614.html
Still the same problem with the tiny glue tube. Think I need to look at the big bottle Slime rubber cement as my patch collection multiplies when the glue dries up.
Most of us have been told that the rubber cement is special in these patch kits, and very well may be for some kits. thanks for the study.
Still the same problem with the tiny glue tube. Think I need to look at the big bottle Slime rubber cement as my patch collection multiplies when the glue dries up.
Most of us have been told that the rubber cement is special in these patch kits, and very well may be for some kits. thanks for the study.
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Try this: before putting your tube of glue away after use, hold it cap side up and carefully squeeze out all the air, such that an arc of liquid is bulging out, then put the lil' lid on there - now there's no air in the tube, and you've lost only the solvent that's evaporated whilst the cap was off (an' don't leave the cap off while playing with your patch).
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That should keep the container from "breathing" past the lid, however, the rigid container means a new pocket of air each time the container is opened, and subsequent loss of volatile component, likely insignificant at first, but adds up quickly when the container is part full, having been opened and shut many times by then, a large batch of air each time, etc.
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#96
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That should keep the container from "breathing" past the lid, however, the rigid container means a new pocket of air each time the container is opened, and subsequent loss of volatile component, likely insignificant at first, but adds up quickly when the container is part full, having been opened and shut many times by then, a large batch of air each time, etc.
Ride on!f
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It's too bad nobody's selling a reasonable ketchup packet (or smaller even) version of this stuff. Heinz goes for $.10/packet and that includes the ketchup. Take an 8 ounce jar of Rema for $20 and divide to little 3 gram packets would/ should be doable at about $.30/packet.
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#98
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