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Finally the gods of ebay smile on me :)

Old 10-28-10, 11:36 AM
  #1  
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Finally the gods of ebay smile on me :)

For ages now I have been trying to get an old Dawes Kingpin. I must have tried to win about a dozen auctions for them on ebay. Well today I finally got one
A 1975 Kingpin in a rather bad shade of green. Now I just have to wait for it to arrive. So in the mean time I guess I gotta work out where to go with my new project. I can't spray the frame because I live in a flat so I'm thinking white hammerite paint. I would like more than 3 gears so do I switch it to deraileur or do I fork out for new hub gears (maybe the SA 8 speed with hub brakes)?
As its a Dawes and Dawes are best known for their touring bikes, I think that should be the direction to go with this build.
So anyone got any suggestions?
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Old 10-28-10, 03:43 PM
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Nexus 11 with roller brakes?
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Old 10-28-10, 04:38 PM
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The frame color ain't that bad. I've seen worse cases of pukey green than this.

Congrats on your purchase. It sounds like you've got plans for your latest addition already.

Sorry that I can't advise you on the gears. I have problems dealing with three. However, I'm sure others will chip in with recommendations.

Enjoy your purchase. Please keep us abreast of your progress and, of course, give us lots and lots of pics.
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Old 10-29-10, 12:05 PM
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I have made a decision I may come to regret! I have decided to try making my own wooden mudguards! (thats English for fenders btw).
Having watched Youtube clips of how to bend wood I now know everything I need to know. I have the chewed remains of the original mudguards from my fold-it to supply fittings, I found (pilfered from work) a perfectly sized mold to bend the wood around and today I bought wood glue, yacht varnish and G clamps. Tomorrow I think I might look for the wood.

Watch this space for tales and pictures of the disaster to follow!

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Old 10-29-10, 02:01 PM
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Are the rims 451? I find that they roll just fine with a three speed and skinny tires. Congrats on the purchase. I would first get some car cleaner/wax and polish the frame and see what it looks like.
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Old 10-29-10, 06:08 PM
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Cool, another Kingpin. I've just been looking into drive-train options for mine, and it's really going to depend on what you intend to do with it.

For a commuter build, the SA-8 and hub brake would be pretty nice. You will have to spread the rear triangle for the hub brake (you might not on the regular SA-8), but the better cable routing and all-weather performance would be worth it.

Since you mentioned touring, you'll probably want a wider gear range (the published spec on the SA-8 is kind of misleading, since the 25% jump to the top gear makes it pretty much inaccessible on the flats). That leaves you with dérailleurs or waiting for the Nexus 11. I decided to go with derailleurs on mine, and have a Sturmey X-RDC (cassette hub with drum brake) waiting for new rims. Remember that dérailleurs are going to require an extra cable, so you'll have to file out the holes for the internal routing a bit to accommodate that. Also, I've been able to compare my Kingpin side-by-side with Sixty-fiver's Twenty, and the Kingpin is nowhere near as overbuilt. The Kingpin could make a very nice credit-card touring bike, but it's probably as not well suited to loaded touring as the Twenty. Then again, Dawes did equip it with some impressively beefy racks, so it looks like they had some confidence in the frame.

The stock mudguards are stainless steel and rather nice. Wood fenders do look pretty, but I wouldn't be particularly inclined to replace the originals.

The rims are actually 440 (500A). Replacement tires are nonexistent, but upgrading to 451 should be trivial (you shouldn't even need to replace the brakes).

Also, since it looks like you have the folding model, I would highly recommend a two-legged kickstand. That will let the bike stand neatly when folded, making the fold dramatically more useful. I'm using the Pletscher one, which cost more than my Kingpin but is a pretty nice stand. You can probably find some cheaper alternatives if you look around (check the utility forum for recommendations).
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Old 10-29-10, 06:52 PM
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I've now decided to go for the easy option. 7 speed 14-34 deraileur (for now, may go up to 14 or more later). Also decided to try butterfly bars (see below) for maximum hand positions. I may look into kick stands at some point, the main reason I ride folders however is theres a tricky landing door to get into my flat and I would never get a non-folder round it.
One day when I have the cash spare I may look at getting wheels made with drum brakes and an 8 speed hub gear.
The reason I went for a Kingpin not an R20 is Dawes hand built all their bikes, the workmnship is therefore likely to be better and they probably used better materials. Raleigh bikes are more mass produced (hence why so many people have them). I could have bought a R20 dozens of times over in the time I spent looking for a kingpin. Also I didn't like the idea of messing with the infamous bottom bracket
As for the mudguards, am definitely going to try making them. No idea whether I will actually use them but as the only place you can buy wooden mudguards is over the pond and the cost of getting some is astronomical it may be a money spinner if I can master it. Will be fun anyway to try
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Old 10-29-10, 09:24 PM
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The worksmanship on my Dawes does seem to be better than that on the R20 (I've heard the phrase "hung-over Scotsman" used to describe the welding work on those), and not needing to mess with Raleigh weirdness is nice (the Dawes also has a standard headset and kickstand plate, and probably other things I haven't noticed yet). I suspect it's a bit lighter than the Twenty as well.

Trekking bars are pretty nice if you're looking for a more upright setup, although I find that for most purposes I prefer the hand positions I get with drops (which I have on my Dawes). I suspect they'll make the fold more awkward, but that's not a problem if you don't plan on folding it. One thing worth trying is mounting road levers on the forward bends (moustache bar style). This gives you an extra hand position, and I find I use the forward corners more than the rear part of the bar anyway.

Anyway, I look forward to seeing what you do with it. The internet could use some more hot-rod Kingpins.
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Old 10-30-10, 06:03 AM
  #9  
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Originally Posted by Dynocoaster
Are the rims 451? I find that they roll just fine with a three speed and skinny tires. Congrats on the purchase. I would first get some car cleaner/wax and polish the frame and see what it looks like.
If it was British racing green rather than bottle green I might bother to save the paintwork, I haven't actually recieved it yet so maybe it won't look too bad. In all likelihood however I think its going to get repainted. I so wish I had managed to win the previous Kingpin I bid on. The brown looks awesome, unfortunately my internet connection lagged when I tried to counter someones last second sniper bid Anyway my green one cost less than half what that guy ended up paying for the brown.

The wheels I'm gunna use are 406's, easier to get tyres for and without suspension on British roads nice fat tyres are a good idea.
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Old 11-08-10, 05:19 AM
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Yay its arrived (finally)!
Just started stripping it down. Its kinda hard work cos all the bolts have rusted. I am liking the look of the old saddle though, might keep that
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Old 11-08-10, 05:56 AM
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Taking a break from trying to undo rusted bolt on rear mudguard, don't get me started on trying to get the cotter pins out!
The colour isn't that bad after all, however I think I will have to repaint anyway due to some bad scratches.
It seems the chain guard bolts to protrusions braised onto the frame, if I'm going to add a front mech for 14 speed gearing I'm going to have to cut them off. Should I do this or not (opinions pls)?
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Old 11-16-10, 11:12 PM
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So my Kingpin is away getting braze ons added for brakes and front mech. If I ever decide to put the chainguard back on, a bracket should be easy to make to attach it via the mech braze on
I have decided to make a start on wooden mudguards. Thought I'd try laminating balsa for weight reduction and cost with rosewood veneer top and bottom for looks and more durability. Should get the wood in a few days. If it works I will try to provide some sorta guide so we can all make em
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Old 11-17-10, 07:47 AM
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I'd like to see the wood fender process for sure. Ambitious!
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Old 11-17-10, 01:41 PM
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It could all go horribly wrong. All I'm going by is a video on youtube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTNkckKE36U

I have now also ordered a 2 leg kick stand (thanks to IanHelgesen for that tip) and Vinyl lettering to rebrand the bike as a Dawes Kingpin.
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Old 11-18-10, 03:05 AM
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Ooh exciting, they called and are working on it now
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Old 11-18-10, 04:06 PM
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Old 11-18-10, 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Russcoles11
It could all go horribly wrong. All I'm going by is a video on youtube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTNkckKE36U
Good video. Looking forward to your project. Thinking myself about building a wood crate to put on the rear rack of my Twenty.
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Old 11-23-10, 03:18 AM
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OK so heres where I am on the wooden fenders.
Test No. 1: Using 4 lengths of 1.5mm rosewood veneer approx 3ft by 60cm.
I glued this up last night. Very easy to bend as the veneer comes as a roll. Taking it off the form the result is very flexible but returns to shape. I worry that this will mean it may split over time or the varnish may crack allowing moisture into the wood.
Test No. 2: Using 2 lengths of balsa 2mm thick.
Have just glued this one up. The Balsa is much stiffer but is relatively easy to bend onto the form. It also requires less clamps to keep it tight to the form. I am very hopeful with this test

So it looks like my gut feeling that I should put veneer onto a balsa laminated curve may prove right.
I think I may need to find better glue anyway in order to be safer if there is any flex.
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Old 11-23-10, 06:28 AM
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So you just can't get regular store bought shiny fenders, like most of us. You had to up the anty and make your own, out of wood no less.

What's next? Will you be chewing deer hide to make it soft so you can make your own saddle? Quite tasty actually.

Truly an ambitious project. Will be looking forward to seeing how you're doing. Good luck. Watch the fingers.

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Old 11-23-10, 03:09 PM
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The bike came with shiney stainless steel mudguards, I wouldn't even have to buy some. I just like the look of wooden mudguards and want my bike to look really cool.
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Old 11-25-10, 01:53 PM
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All I need now to complete the build (ignoring mudguards which I shall consider a separate project) is the bottom bracket and cranks. Both are somewhere in the postal system.
I managed to get all cables routed through the little holes in the frame without widening any of them. The trick was to put the 1st gear cable through, work out where it goes through the hole and strip a small section of plastic from the outer at that point.
One thing I have learned is that anyone doing a similar build should remember to get a cable stop brazed on for the front deraileur. I managed to find a clamp on cable stop but it's not as neat a solution.
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Old 11-25-10, 07:29 PM
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I know you can't wait. Looking forward to seeing the finished product.
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Old 11-26-10, 09:56 PM
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Mudguards update: Started varnishing rear mudguard, the cherry veneer looks awesome.

Final technique to construct a mudguard:
-Create a mould or form over which to bend your mudguard (I just nicked something the right diameter from work)
-Take 3 lengths of balsa wood 1.5mm thick (length and width greater than you want for finished mudguard) and glue them together.
-Very quickly then clamp these to your form. I used an inner tube lengthwise around the form and wood and just 2 clamps to avoid denting the balsa. I also used masking tape along the edges.
-Leave overnight at least to set.
-Take the Balsa off the form and check for sections not glued adequately, push glue into any cracks using a piece of card and re-clamp to the form with the clamps over the glued sections.
-Leave overnight again.
-Cut cherry laminate to size (for me this was 5cm wide and length measured against another mudguard) and glue this on top of the balsa curve and return to the form overnight.
-Carefully trim excess balsa using some sort of saw or knife using the laminate as your template.
-Place the mudguard in position on the bike and check what fixings will go where. Mark positions and drill any holes needed.
-Varnish the mudguard (marine varnish recommended for weather proofing). Sand down and varnish again until you have a suitably thick layer of varnish.
-Screw on the fittings
-Attach to bike
-Remember you need to do this twice for 2 mudguards. Use the best one for the rear so you can choose the best section of the other for the shorter front mudguard

You can swap the cherry for whatever wood finish you want.
You can try with other woods than balsa but I tried all cherry and found the result very springy
12 sheets of balsa (1.5mm by 10cm 1 meter long cost me about £3
12ft of cherry veneer (1mm by 60cm) cost me £5
Glue used was an exterior pva type £5
Marine varnish £5
Fittings from a busted up old pair of plastic mudguards
Total cost £18

Cost to buy would have been $99 plus shipping from US and import duty/tax
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Old 11-26-10, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Russcoles11
I managed to get all cables routed through the little holes in the frame without widening any of them. The trick was to put the 1st gear cable through, work out where it goes through the hole and strip a small section of plastic from the outer at that point.
I haven't tried this yet, but one idea I had is to strip the plastic from both housings at the entry point, then covering that area with heat-shrink tubing (so you have one piece of plastic around both housings). That should keep water out, and hopefully prevent the housing from buckling.

Originally Posted by Russcoles11
One thing I have learned is that anyone doing a similar build should remember to get a cable stop brazed on for the front deraileur. I managed to find a clamp on cable stop but it's not as neat a solution.

One more point in favor getting some frame work done, I guess. We've got plenty of old dérailleurs with integrated cable stops kicking around, but finding one that will work with the frame is pretty unlikely.
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Old 11-27-10, 06:02 AM
  #25  
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Sounds great, pictures please.
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