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650x42B's on a Raleigh Sports (pics for Ged117)

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650x42B's on a Raleigh Sports (pics for Ged117)

Old 09-09-22, 10:50 PM
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650x42B's on a Raleigh Sports (pics for Ged117)



This started as a discussion with Ged117 about whether it'd be possible to fit out a Sports with knobby 650Bs for winter commuting. I happened to have a 650B wheel with a Dynohub laced into it that I could test, so I did. After snapping all these photos, I figured I might as well share them on the forum as an additional reference. Plus, it's easier than trying to attach anything to a PM anyway (what can I say, I'm lazy).

Full disclosure - I didn't have a Sturmey rear hub laced to a 650B on hand (honestly, this is only one of two 650B's I have on hand), so chainstay clearance is still a question mark. My only tires are a pair of the 42B Soma Grand Randonneur slicks you see here, so this is what I could bring forth as a test. Still, better than nothing, and - to my surprise - a surprisingly workable fit, even under the fairly restrictive pre-TI era fenders on my '51 Sports.

I know some here on the forum have questioned whether it's worth it to take a Sports and replace the EA3's with an even more obscure size, but from a purely functional standpoint, it seems doable. There just might be enough pad adjustment in the stock sidepulls too (though why anyone would run expensive 650B's and stock sidepulls is beyond me), which means a pair of Tektros should also cover the necessary reach.

Mind, my only real objection to 650B is that it costs twice as much for tires and rims as any other size - if it weren't for that, I'd be delighted to try a few builds around these cushy, pretty looking tires. Plus, I don't often see English and French C&V equipment co-mingling that often, other than Cyclo derailers.

But I digress. On to the pictures:



Right fork blade clearance is good. The 42B is a bit wider than the fender as it tapers forward of the crown, but it tucks elegantly.



Same story on the left:



Brake pad slot vs. new rim position:



Clearance on the pre-TI era fender is tight, but it's enough. Fender adjustment has to be pretty close though.



From the right:



From the left:



-Kurt
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Old 09-10-22, 05:35 AM
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Looks good. Also looks like a 650b would fit in the rear but with a smaller tire
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Old 09-10-22, 06:08 AM
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I'd like to try out 650b but there isn't much supply of 650b wheelsets at 130 OLD. I may just end up building my own wheels.
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Old 09-10-22, 07:50 AM
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I'm pretty sure you could just remove the lock nuts from the front axle and slip it loosely into the rear dropouts to at least see how well the tire fits. I've done that on multiple occasions and it's much faster than test-fitting an actual rear wheel with cogs that need to be properly wrapped around the chain for the sake of a moment of measuring! Thanks for sharing, very interesting.

-Gregory
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Old 09-10-22, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Kilroy1988
I'm pretty sure you could just remove the lock nuts from the front axle and slip it loosely into the rear dropouts to at least see how well the tire fits. I've done that on multiple occasions and it's much faster than test-fitting an actual rear wheel with cogs that need to be properly wrapped around the chain for the sake of a moment of measuring! Thanks for sharing, very interesting.

-Gregory
Easier said than done with a chaincase. If anything, I could give it a try on my '80 Sports, which has already been cold-set for a Nexus 8 (don't remember the hub's specific OLN; I think it's 130) and has the larger dropout slots from factory. The matching 650x42B wheel I have is laced to a Nexus 7, so it should be a drop-in fit. Still, the less I tinker with bikes that I regularly use, the better...

This exercise has made me a bit frustrated over that shop in WPB that had a very nice Lemon Yellow Sports on hand but refused to price it.

-Kurt
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Old 09-10-22, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by cudak888

This started as a discussion with Ged117 about whether it'd be possible to fit out a Sports with knobby 650Bs for winter commuting. I happened to have a 650B wheel with a Dynohub laced into it that I could test, so I did. After snapping all these photos, I figured I might as well share them on the forum as an additional reference. Plus, it's easier than trying to attach anything to a PM anyway (what can I say, I'm lazy).

Full disclosure - I didn't have a Sturmey rear hub laced to a 650B on hand (honestly, this is only one of two 650B's I have on hand), so chainstay clearance is still a question mark. My only tires are a pair of the 42B Soma Grand Randonneur slicks you see here, so this is what I could bring forth as a test. Still, better than nothing, and - to my surprise - a surprisingly workable fit, even under the fairly restrictive pre-TI era fenders on my '51 Sports.

I know some here on the forum have questioned whether it's worth it to take a Sports and replace the EA3's with an even more obscure size, but from a purely functional standpoint, it seems doable. There just might be enough pad adjustment in the stock sidepulls too (though why anyone would run expensive 650B's and stock sidepulls is beyond me), which means a pair of Tektros should also cover the necessary reach.

Mind, my only real objection to 650B is that it costs twice as much for tires and rims as any other size - if it weren't for that, I'd be delighted to try a few builds around these cushy, pretty looking tires. Plus, I don't often see English and French C&V equipment co-mingling that often, other than Cyclo derailers.

But I digress. On to the pictures:

Right fork blade clearance is good. The 42B is a bit wider than the fender as it tapers forward of the crown, but it tucks elegantly.
Same story on the left

Brake pad slot vs. new rim position

Clearance on the pre-TI era fender is tight, but it's enough. Fender adjustment has to be pretty close though.

From the right:

From the left:

-Kurt
Thanks for running this to ground, Kurt! Very kind of you. Given the lessening supply of 650a tires, this example will be of use to others in the future. I'll echo what you and other posters have said - the cost of 650b rims + suitable tires makes for an expensive build, so you have to really want that old Sports to roll through the seasons. Regarding fenders, I think I'd change them out for better fitting ones that would permit me the space to run more wintery tread tires. The Raleigh I'm eyeing for this future project doesn't have fenders in the best of shape anyway.
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Old 09-10-22, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by bwilli88
Looks good. Also looks like a 650b would fit in the rear but with a smaller tire
I may have to try this on the '80 Sports. Not holding my breath, but the smaller diameter rim just might give enough clearance.

Originally Posted by bikemig
I'd like to try out 650b but there isn't much supply of 650b wheelsets at 130 OLD. I may just end up building my own wheels.
Wheelbuilding seems to be a prerequisite with 650B. We're lucky that the Pacenti and VO rims exist so easily in the first place. In some ways, one has more easy choices for aluminum rims in 650B than EA3/650A here in the States, where it's the CR18 or getting lucky finding a UK, Japanese, or Chinese city bike donor.

Originally Posted by Ged117
Thanks for running this to ground, Kurt! Very kind of you. Given the lessening supply of 650a tires, this example will be of use to others in the future. I'll echo what you and other posters have said - the cost of 650b rims + suitable tires makes for an expensive build, so you have to really want that old Sports to roll through the seasons. Regarding fenders, I think I'd change them out for better fitting ones that would permit me the space to run more wintery tread tires. The Raleigh I'm eyeing for this future project doesn't have fenders in the best of shape anyway.
I'm not sure we're at mission critical with EA3/650A just yet. Too many options are still out there without even scratching the surface offerings domestic to other countries; it's the rim availability that cramps the old Raleigh standard.

On the other hand, 650B is full of rims - most of them overpriced - but C&V-oriented tires aren't available on a budget. You're fixed to the most expensive, high thread count 700C tires available - there's no economy-build-and-upgrade-later path. I don't think we'll see this change soon, either. This niche market has a clientele that can laugh off a pair of $80 tires.

Unless one of the larger trendy manufacturers surprises the world with a 650B renaissance that somehow takes off, it's not changing.

I saw what you were eyeing. Go get it, even if it doesn't work out. Price is right.

-Kurt

P.S.: Anyone selling some 650B rims and a 23" Lemon Yellow Sports?
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Old 09-11-22, 01:00 AM
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Hanging in a bike shop here in Cambodia there must be 20 or 30 NOS 26 x 1 3/8 rims. I plan to bring back four rims for builds I have in the States. I wish I could send a stack back for all you needy folk.


And they are only $9 a piece.
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Old 09-11-22, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by bwilli88
Hanging in a bike shop here in Cambodia there must be 20 or 30 NOS 26 x 1 3/8 rims. I plan to bring back four rims for builds I have in the States. I wish I could send a stack back for all you needy folk.

And they are only $9 a piece.
Steel ones though, right? If so, we've got enough of them here

-Kurt
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Old 09-11-22, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by cudak888
Steel ones though, right? If so, we've got enough of them here

-Kurt
Nope, most of them were Araya aluminum rims!
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Old 09-13-22, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by bwilli88
Nope, most of them were Araya aluminum rims!
Satin finish, I take it?

-Kurt
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Old 09-14-22, 01:59 AM
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Yes, satin

$9 each

more used on another rack.

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Old 09-17-22, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by cudak888
P.S.: Anyone selling some 650B rims and a 23" Lemon Yellow Sports?
Dammit, @Ged117! Look at what you made me do!





-Kurt

P.S.: Anyone have matching fenders and a chainguard?
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Old 09-17-22, 02:24 PM
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I think that the 650A size is still popular in Japan, and there are higher quality rims and tires available there, but are not imported to the US. Harris used to stock the 650A version of the Panasonic Col de la Vie, but saddly they are gone.
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Old 09-17-22, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by ironwood
I think that the 650A size is still popular in Japan, and there are higher quality rims and tires available there, but are not imported to the US. Harris used to stock the 650A version of the Panasonic Col de la Vie, but saddly they are gone.
I just ordered a 650a set from Soma Fab out of California at $29USD a tire. I haven't found them in Canada as yet, only in 650b.I tried to find alternatives in Japan, but only 650b seemed available. I should ask someone I know who reads and writes Japanese to search the popular bike gear websites for 650a tires. I wish I thought of that before!

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Old 09-17-22, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by cudak888
Dammit, @Ged117! Look at what you made me do!





-Kurt

P.S.: Anyone have matching fenders and a chainguard?
Fantastic. What's the plan? That yellow is LOUD. I like it. I'm sticking with 650a until I decide if my 1960s but restomodded with 70s mech Triumph is worth the squeeze for 650b, versus say looking into a Gugificazioni! of my '75 Competition...
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Old 09-17-22, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Ged117
Fantastic. What's the plan? That yellow is LOUD. I like it. I'm sticking with 650a until I decide if my 1960s but restomodded with 70s mech Triumph is worth the squeeze for 650b, versus say looking into a Gugificazioni! of my '75 Competition...
More or less the same build as the silver '80 Sports, with a stock chainguard, fenders, frameset, Nexus 8, aluminum bar/stem/brakes, but with blackwall 650B's to make the yellow pop. I think 650B x 42's should be safe enough. Not sure about the crankset.

I have one of the new Nexus 5E's kicking around which I've been impressed with for general gear engagement, but I'm not sure I want to narrow my selection of gears down to 5 - I really like the narrow ratios available from the 8. On the other hand, the Nexus 8 I'm running on the 1980 Sports feels fragile (to be specific, the model I'm running is a roller clutch SG-C6011-8R), with gear engagement in 2nd/3rd or 4th sometimes momentarily slipping. It's been there since new, and has only partially - not completely - improved with 00 grease over the overrated OEM Shimano goop.

I would like to dig up a pair of hyper-shiny Velo-Orange 650B's - I wouldn't mind a pair of the older Diagonale model that's no longer in production - but I'm pretty much open to whatever falls in my lap cheap (a shame I didn't pick up an extra pair of 32h Diagonales when they were on closeout).

Still, I'm more interested in securing a set of fenders though before continuing on. Project is a non-starter without them.

I wish I could grab the fenders off this one - they're in great shape on a really thrashed frame: https://www.ebay.com/itm/14471238495...Bk9SR_a5987pYA

-Kurt
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