"Those Bicyclists Blow Right Through Red Lights!"
#701
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Settlement means that the police will continue to ticket cyclist under the same law with no real difference from FRAP without exceptions. It means no new case law that would help to protect cyclist against these cops and that law. No surprise that other states wish to change the laws to eliminate the FRAP exemptions, must of gotten large support from motorist and cops in a hurry and believe cyclist do not belong.
Settlement means the harassment stopped. The *real* differences with FRAP (with or without exceptions) is covered below.
The federal judge *ALREADY* cleared up that we don't have FRAP laws, and the circumstances that require a cyclist to ride right ARE VERY VERY LIMITED. (Helpful hint - they are the same VERY VERY LIMITED circumstances that require a motorist to drive right.)
And it was people on bicycles who pushed for the changes to Pennsylvania laws, not motorists.
What the ?
I'm appalled that Eli had to go through that.
With FRAP exceptions, I have at least convinced cops in several states that my riding was legal and it would be wrong of them to write a ticket. Seems FRAP with exceptions has worked better for me in several states than your law with no exceptions.
Simple thought experiment. You know, abstract. But a *real* *world* *example*.
A local road has just been paved (with gold of course). It's a dream road. Perfectly safe, edge to edge. There's not even parking along this road. A long, straight, stretch of beautiful pavement. No intersections for a long stretch, not even driveways. It's a 30 mph road, we are riding 20 mph. We are riding straight ahead.
BUT, it's got a narrow bike lane marked on it.
In Hawaii, *we* have to ride in that bike lane.
In Massachusetts, *we* can ride anywhere on that road, but motorists *can't* drive anywhere on that rode.
In Hawaii, *we* have to ride single file.
In Massachusetts, *we* can ride side by side (just like motorcyclists can), anywhere on that road.
(Almost - left as an exercise to the reader of what we, and motorcyclists, *can't* do while riding side by side.)
Tell me again that FRAP with exceptions is better?
-mr. bill
Last edited by mr_bill; 06-22-16 at 08:00 AM.
#702
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#703
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Totally disagree with everything you have said. I've seen it. Here in Michigan if riding in/ on the road you are treated like any other vehicle which means you observe the same rules of the road. Stop means stop whether you feel it's stupid or not. Your just reinforcing the negative view drivers have of cyclists.
#705
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I ride bicycle in my country daily. I am one of very few riders and that is for the reason.
In last +25 years every intervention on the road planing ,construction and development is made with no regards for pedestrian or bicyclist or even worst its made against any other mode of transport.
For instance to avoid busy highways I need to go about 3-4 km longer (11km against 15 km) thru very bad surfaced roads and thru numerous left turns , stop sings and lights and on very unfriendly hills for a bike at least.
I don't think i am second class citizen here ,it would be much better if i am. I am lower on scale if my position on it eve exist.
At same time even on this minor roads I use I get in danger and hazardous situation every f. day and its not because my riding.
And guess what I blow every light and stop sign every time I can.
In last +25 years every intervention on the road planing ,construction and development is made with no regards for pedestrian or bicyclist or even worst its made against any other mode of transport.
For instance to avoid busy highways I need to go about 3-4 km longer (11km against 15 km) thru very bad surfaced roads and thru numerous left turns , stop sings and lights and on very unfriendly hills for a bike at least.
I don't think i am second class citizen here ,it would be much better if i am. I am lower on scale if my position on it eve exist.
At same time even on this minor roads I use I get in danger and hazardous situation every f. day and its not because my riding.
And guess what I blow every light and stop sign every time I can.
#706
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I see it every day. Does not bother me one bit.
This explains a lot. Not just here on BF, but everywhere. I always wondered why many (if not most) people are so willing to toe-the-line for religious dogma designed to exploit the masses, and traffic laws designed for motorized vehicles. If they don't have the capacity for abstract thought, then they NEED someone else directing them. Makes perfect sense. Glad I found this out. Another of the world's mysteries solved on the Internet!
This explains a lot. Not just here on BF, but everywhere. I always wondered why many (if not most) people are so willing to toe-the-line for religious dogma designed to exploit the masses, and traffic laws designed for motorized vehicles. If they don't have the capacity for abstract thought, then they NEED someone else directing them. Makes perfect sense. Glad I found this out. Another of the world's mysteries solved on the Internet!
Last edited by JoeyBike; 06-22-16 at 10:08 AM.
#707
incazzare.
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In Hawaii, *we* have to ride in that bike lane.
In Massachusetts, *we* can ride anywhere on that road, but motorists *can't* drive anywhere on that rode.
In Hawaii, *we* have to ride single file.
In Massachusetts, *we* can ride side by side (just like motorcyclists can), anywhere on that road.
(Almost - left as an exercise to the reader of what we, and motorcyclists, *can't* do while riding side by side.)
Tell me again that FRAP with exceptions is better?
-mr. bill
In Massachusetts, *we* can ride anywhere on that road, but motorists *can't* drive anywhere on that rode.
In Hawaii, *we* have to ride single file.
In Massachusetts, *we* can ride side by side (just like motorcyclists can), anywhere on that road.
(Almost - left as an exercise to the reader of what we, and motorcyclists, *can't* do while riding side by side.)
Tell me again that FRAP with exceptions is better?
-mr. bill
#710
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I am sure that in Massachusetts cyclists exercising their right to cruise in the travel lane, ignoring the perfectly serviceable bike lane next to them, have been rear ended by an irate mouthbreather in an F150 who was having none of it, law or no law. Tell me again that misguided entitlement is better. The differences between front wheel drive and rear wheel drive only become apparent when wheels lose traction (oops) and life suddenly starts to get very interesting. In less than one second you will know which one is 'better' no matter what your hotly held opinions on the matter might have been before...
"Misguided entitlement" - that's rich. What entitles *you* to choose which laws don't apply to *you*?
(I am wondering if Joey really does ignore the traffic lights when he drives on Chef Menteur Highway.)
I know holding rights *and* responsibilities simultaneously is hard for some, but it is not only quite possible to ride OUTSIDE of a bike lane *AND* be courteous, it's common.
-mr. bill
Last edited by mr_bill; 06-22-16 at 11:16 AM.
#711
Cycle Year Round
True, Hawaii has a terrible bike lane law. Cops do not ticket us or even warn us for not riding in the bike lane. So clearly *we* do not have to ride in that bike lane.
We also have a no blue lights law. I always use a blue blinky in addition to my red blinky at night. Cops here could care less. I would love to see what your cops would do if you used a blue blinky.
In CO, WY and many other states, I open carry when cycling. What would your cops do if you open carry?
Not sure why you think this discussion is a competition between states. I am only trying to discuss different points in different laws and how cops enforce them. Nothing to do with your hurt misguided state pride.
In Hawaii, cyclist ride double file all the time. Cops do not ticket us. But in Hawaii, when a cyclist wishes to ride on a shoulder they may do so legally. In Massachusetts, it is illegal to ride on the shoulder, but at least you are not ticketed for it. See how nicely that works.
So why are you up in arms about laws not enforced in Hawaii, when cops in Massachusetts enforce the FRAP law you do not have?
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#712
Cycle Year Round
The differences between front wheel drive and rear wheel drive only become apparent when wheels lose traction (oops) and life suddenly starts to get very interesting. In less than one second you will know which one is 'better' no matter what your hotly held opinions on the matter might have been before...
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#713
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In a car I stop at all red lights and LOOK BOTH WAYS before blasting through a green light, anywhere, anytime.
#714
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PAST TENSE.
True, Hawaii has a terrible bike lane law. Cops do not ticket us or even warn us for not riding in the bike lane. So clearly *we* do not have to ride in that bike lane.
We also have a no blue lights law. I always use a blue blinky in addition to my red blinky at night. Cops here could care less. I would love to see what your cops would do if you used a blue blinky.
In CO, WY and many other states, I open carry when cycling. What would your cops do if you open carry?
(British English variant , we have the oldest Constitution in the world, ratified 236 years ago this week, even if was later illegally amended.)
Which has *NOTHING* to do with bicycles.
Not sure why you think this discussion is a competition between states. I am only trying to discuss different points in different laws and how cops enforce them. Nothing to do with your hurt misguided state pride.
In Hawaii, cyclist ride double file all the time. Cops do not ticket us. But in Hawaii, when a cyclist wishes to ride on a shoulder they may do so legally. In Massachusetts, it is illegal to ride on the shoulder, but at least you are not ticketed for it. See how nicely that works.
FWIW, it is *not* illegal to ride on the shoulder in Massachusetts.
So why are you up in arms about laws not enforced in Hawaii, when cops in Massachusetts enforce the FRAP law you do not have?
-mr. bill
Last edited by mr_bill; 06-23-16 at 08:23 AM.
#715
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I would not run a blue light for many reasons. If I look like a cop, someone in trouble might approach me for help followed by the trouble maker. But I don't think the cops would approve of blue flashers anyway. I am NOT trying to attract NOPD attention.
As for firearm carry in NOLA. Police and everyone else just ASSUME everybody is armed. It's the status-quo. Get pulled over for speeding, first thing asked is "Is there a firearm in the vehicle?" It would be unwise to lie, and silly, because the cop is only interested in his safety and NOT your firearm UNLESS you happen to be a felon. In which case, I guess lying would better.
#716
Cycle Year Round
Poor mr. bill thinks he knows of every cyclist in Massachusetts who has been ticketed.
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#719
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OK I gotta step in here for a second... So the original discussion was "cyclists blowing through red lights..."
Now it's gone around to FRAP and shoulder use and my state vrs your state...
Are cyclists still blowing through red lights somewhere?
Now it's gone around to FRAP and shoulder use and my state vrs your state...
Are cyclists still blowing through red lights somewhere?
#720
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#721
Cycle Year Round
I still do not know why mr. bill thinks that I think Hawaii has better bicycle laws. We just have cops that do not go out of their way to ticket us for BS laws.
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I prefer an amber tail light that looks like a pothole marker from a distance. I have never found one designed as a tail light that is as bright as my Dinotte red light. Dinotte makes an amber front light....go figure. I want my amber tail light visible day and night. Also, an amber AND a red combo is excellent - looks like an emergency vehicle but not a cop. If a motorist sees a pothole flasher a mile ahead they consciously begin thinking about moving to the left far in advance. I like that.
I would not run a blue light for many reasons. If I look like a cop, someone in trouble might approach me for help followed by the trouble maker. But I don't think the cops would approve of blue flashers anyway. I am NOT trying to attract NOPD attention.
As for firearm carry in NOLA. Police and everyone else just ASSUME everybody is armed. It's the status-quo. Get pulled over for speeding, first thing asked is "Is there a firearm in the vehicle?" It would be unwise to lie, and silly, because the cop is only interested in his safety and NOT your firearm UNLESS you happen to be a felon. In which case, I guess lying would better.
I would not run a blue light for many reasons. If I look like a cop, someone in trouble might approach me for help followed by the trouble maker. But I don't think the cops would approve of blue flashers anyway. I am NOT trying to attract NOPD attention.
As for firearm carry in NOLA. Police and everyone else just ASSUME everybody is armed. It's the status-quo. Get pulled over for speeding, first thing asked is "Is there a firearm in the vehicle?" It would be unwise to lie, and silly, because the cop is only interested in his safety and NOT your firearm UNLESS you happen to be a felon. In which case, I guess lying would better.
Here's my strobe:
#725
contiuniously variable
Wow.
Wow. I go on a short vacation and my inbox has a thread update with 3000 pages of nonsense about champ cars and frapachino law.
Unless it's clearly unsafe, I ride in lane, with traffic. Shoulders have debris, sometimes huge chasms or washouts, then in many places there simply is no shoulder, or it eventually turns into a right turn lane which is super bad unsafe stuff. I'm better off following the flow of traffic, following all the rules plus being super aware of my situation & surroundings.
If you wanna take the lane, do it. Just be strategic.... not suicidal. Also, running red lights is a super awesome way to win a free flight (down onto the road), and a free trip (to the hospital). I don't care what your excuse is RED means STOP.
- Andy
Unless it's clearly unsafe, I ride in lane, with traffic. Shoulders have debris, sometimes huge chasms or washouts, then in many places there simply is no shoulder, or it eventually turns into a right turn lane which is super bad unsafe stuff. I'm better off following the flow of traffic, following all the rules plus being super aware of my situation & surroundings.
If you wanna take the lane, do it. Just be strategic.... not suicidal. Also, running red lights is a super awesome way to win a free flight (down onto the road), and a free trip (to the hospital). I don't care what your excuse is RED means STOP.
- Andy