mr_bill

I have a higher bar than the other folks are worse. You apparenly do not.

I find that anarchy does not lead to freedom. You apparently think anarchy for people like you is ok, but anarchy for people not like you is not ok.

You might want to talk to people who walk - who are OUR natural allies, but who are not YOUR allies.

Hint, they have a higher bar than you kill fewer than "them."

-mr. bill

I-Like-To-Bike

Speaking of proportionality and misinformation, your over-the-top hyperbole (Slaughter! Killing riders in the hundreds! )and hysterical tone do not do the bicycling advocacy or safety cause any favors.

BTW you forgot to include in your "focus" MAIMING, BLINDING, and PARALYZING bicyclists in the thousands!

Equinox

Self loathing cyclists like to minimize the reality of what is actually happening out there. My claims are not hyperbolic in the least, and certainly not false or constituting misinformation.

TransitBiker

So yeah, stop means stop & red means stop. Don't blame me if you get hit or cited. Acting so self centric is a very stupid way to live, I might add. We aren't two years old, let's act it, huh?

- Andy

kermie

Slaughtering.....Wow, did not realize it was that bad out there. I ride a motorcycle and bicycles. I guess I am going to die.....Oh well. Someone pointed out that motorist dislike bicyclist on the road period. I agree with this. Try making a left turn, in the left turn lane after you stopped at the light. Unlike my motorcycles that speed away ahead of traffic, my bicycles and me take a little bit to get moving...Sometimes way to slow for some folks. Sometimes I get yelled at. Sometimes just an eye roll. I've tried track standing, but I am not that good and always have to put a foot down. Now on my motorcycles I can hold it up in 2 wheels for a few seconds. Then roll out.

L134 

Honestly, my closest calls over the past year or so are with other cyclists running stop signs and red lights and just the other day, riding against traffic. Maybe less likely to maime me but certainly raise my ire and that of motorists that may then take it out on me. I dont group ride because noboby stops!

Paul Barnard

Not to me. When it's unsafe to proceed I stop. Otherwise I use the same risk assessment method I use when I take a right on red, when I proceed from a stop, when I pass through a yield and when a light turns green. I make sure it's safe to go, then I go. I can do that while moving and it ain't complicated. Just as obeying the law isn't a magic shield, disobeying the law isn't necessarily unsafe. I figured that out when I turned 3 years old.

If you want to blindly follow each and every traffic law because, well, it's the law, I won't knock that. I will say this, if you do, you are the only person on the planet I know of that does. Your conscious coupling of breaking the law and getting hurt shows an inability to apply logic to simple situations.

If I get a traffic ticket on a bicycle, I am framing it!

lostarchitect 

Who's blaming you, Andy? This isn't about you.

Equinox

I agree. I certainly wouldn't blame Andy. Especially because cyclists are not getting hit by running red lights.

mr_bill

Hawaii has *terrible* bike laws. How's repealing them going for you?

Massachusetts has wonderful bike laws.

"BICYCLES MAY USE FULL LANE"


"ON ANY STREET ANYWHERE"


"IT'S THE LAW"


-mr. bill

Kaze6

Please cite the section of NY VTL which exempts bicycles.

Now go talk to your local traffic cops about the primary cause of car-bike accidents. HINT: It's not because the bikie was riding so safely that the car driver didn't know what to do.

Kaze6

You're also going to pay the same fines, fees, enhancements and penalty assessment, and get the same points on your driver's license as if you did it in a Chevy.

Dunno about the cops where you are. Around here, it's not uncommon for bikes to get cited.

mr_bill

Technically, you will be assigned the same points on your driver's license as if you did it in a Chevy on the way to the levee. That is - zero points. (There are no points in LA.)

In some other states, just about everything you said is wrong.

Finally, off the top of my head, I can't think of a single state where you would be 100% right. Maybe you can name a state?

-mr. bill

Kaze6

Here are the states that I've had direct contact with laws regarding bicycles:

California:

DIVISION 11. RULES OF THE ROAD [21000 - 23336]

( Division 11 enacted by Stats. 1959, Ch. 3. )
CHAPTER 1. Obedience to and Effect of Traffic Laws [21000 - 21296]

( Chapter 1 enacted by Stats. 1959, Ch. 3. )

ARTICLE 4. Operation of Bicycles [21200 - 21213]

( Article 4 added by Stats. 1963, Ch. 479. )

21200.

(a) A person riding a bicycle or operating a pedicab upon a highway has all the rights and is subject to all the provisions applicable to the driver of a vehicle by this division, including, but not limited to, provisions concerning driving under the influence of alcoholic beverages or drugs, and by Division 10 (commencing with Section 20000), Section 27400, Division 16.7 (commencing with Section 39000), Division 17 (commencing with Section 40000.1), and Division 18 (commencing with Section 42000), except those provisions which by their very nature can have no application.


Hawai'i:
[§291C-142] Traffic laws apply to persons riding bicycles. Every person riding a bicycle upon a roadway shall be granted all of the rights and shall be subject to all of the duties applicable to the driver of a vehicle by this chapter, except as to special regulations in this part and except as to those provisions of this chapter which by their nature can have no application. [L 1971, c 150, pt of §1]




Utah:
"41-6a-1102. Bicycle and device propelled by human power and moped riders subject to chapter -- Exception.
(1) Except as provided under Subsection (2) or as otherwise specified under this part, a person operating a bicycle, a vehicle or device propelled by human power, or a moped has all the rights and is subject to the provisions of this chapter applicable to the operator of any other vehicle. (2) A person operating a nonmotorized bicycle or a vehicle or device propelled by human power is not subject to the penalties related to operator licenses under alcohol and drug-related traffic offenses."


Nevada:
"NRS 484B.763  Application of traffic laws to person riding bicycle or electric bicycle.  Every person riding a bicycle or an electric bicycle upon a roadway has all of the rights and is subject to all of the duties applicable to the driver of a vehicle except as otherwise provided in NRS 484B.767 to 484B.783, inclusive, and except as to those provisions of chapters 484A to 484E, inclusive, of NRS which by their nature can have no application."


I could keep going, but you're in front of a computer that's connected to the same Internet where I'm grabbings these references. However, no grand tour is complete without a visit to the laws of Louisiana, which state:

"RS 32:194 Traffic Laws Apply to Persons Riding Bicycles
Every person riding a bicycle upon a highway of this state shall be granted all the rights and shall be subject to all the duties applicable to the driver of a vehicle."


Notice that in each state, the operative word is "ALL" -- a bikie is subject to ALL of the same laws, both in the offense and in the penalty.

So, what part of what I said about the law is wrong?

CB HI

So now you are triggering on a post that is over 2 months old?

As I said, Hawaii does have a terrible bike LANE law. The other cycle laws are pretty good and we are not ticketed for NOT riding FRAP as you Mass cyclist have been. We also have not been ticketed for NOT riding in the bike lanes.

I know how much you love your bike lanes, but it is amazing how accepting you guys are of bike lanes that run you into vent exhaust.

mr_bill

I'll stop at the first, you'll want to double check your work on the rest.

1803(b) The following violations are not required to be reported under
subdivision (a):
(6) Violations for which a person was cited as a pedestrian or
while operating a bicycle or a motorized scooter.

Next time you have "direct contact" hire a professional.

-mr. bill

mr_bill

You have terrible bicycle LAWS. Plural. We don't. This is not hard to understand.

-mr. bill

Kaze6

Can you provide a link to the citation? That number isn't enough to find it.

mr_bill

You can't find the California Vehicle Code?

Here.

-mr. bill

Kaze6

Read up. That refers to the duties of a court clerk to file a report to the State within 5 days of a conviction, bond forfeiture or sentencing. This allows a judge to "admin" such convictions at the local level and "keep it off the record" -- a useful thing to offer a defendant who is only fighting it to keep his record clean. It doesn't PROHIBIT reporting, it simply doesn't REQUIRE it.

This has nothing to do with whether or not the bikie is exempt from citation, prosecution, fine, etc., just whether the mandatory reporting laws apply to the court in which he is convicted.

Too bad, I was hoping that you actually had found an exemption.

CB HI

You seem to have very bad reading comprehension with your conversion of my statements of a "bike lane law" into "bike laws".

CB HI

As noted, mr. bill has poor reading comprehension.

mr_bill

In California, does a parking ticket go against your MOTOR VEHICLE MOVING VIOLATIONS points?
In California, does a pedestrian ticket go against your MOTOR VEHICLE MOVING VIOLATION points?
In California, does a bicycle ticket go against your MOTOR VEHICLE MOVING VIOLATION points?
In California, does a motorized scooter ticket go against your MOTOR VEHICLE MOVING VIOLATION points?

You'll want to do a bit more of a search to find out that *YOUR* interpretation of Section 1800 isn't the court's interpretation of Section 1800.

If you got a bicycle ticket, and it went against your motor vehicle moving violations record, you are doing it wrong.

FWIW - Massachusetts law.

-mr. bill

mr_bill

You have terrible bike LAWS in Hawaii.

-mr. bill

Kaze6

I haven't been here long enough to know him, but in this case, he obviously did a search on the specific phrase and didn't wade through all of the fine print above it. I can't blame him there. Among vehicle codes, California is legendary for being hard to plow through. Back when I was there, 30 years ago, the book was two inches thick, and they've been adding to it this whole time.