redlude97

Here is where most people are disagreeing with you. If I understand you correctly, your argument is carbs=70% ftp effort and fat=50% ftp effort. You CAN run faster with carbs and stimulants, but it isn't the result from taking them. People go out too hard on long rides when they are new for a number of reasons, but I don't think it was because of their diet before or during the ride. The end result is that they would bonk even sooner if they avoided carbs. Plenty of people have gone out and successfully completed their first century efforts by following the effort portion of your advice while still ingesting plenty of carbs, I'm one of them, many moons ago. Picked a group that was substantially slower than my normal pace and the goal was to just finish. Since then I've done other centuries and even double centuries at paces closer to threshold still fueled by carbs. Effort and perceived effort are affected by fuel to some extent, but your control over your effort, especially at the beginning are still controlled by your own mind.

Maelochs

Not wanting to drag this on indefinitely ... (20 pages would be nice, though) but yeah ... I have gone too hard on rides and suffered later, and moderated my effort and suffered less ... based on intellect and planing and desire, not on diet.

The idea that I have to starve myself to ride smart ... hey, whatever works for you.

For short rides lately I start the day with a cup or two of coffee and five a.m., eat very lightly protein/carb/fat balanced throughout the day, drink a decent amount of water, and head out around 6 p.m. or so or a ride of 11-28 miles (which is my current comfortable max.) I generally start light,, then go pretty hard until about half or two thirds when I just hit a bump, slow a bit, ride over it, get a second wind, and push in spurts all the way back.

I do that Not based on the food I eat (sometimes I go for a Powerbar an hour before, or a Mountain Dew ... or both ... sometimes nothing for several hours ...) but based on how I feel when I leave, how I feel once I start to pick up speed and how far I think I can go with what I have that day (accumulated fatigue, enough or too little sleep, how hard the next day might be ...)

I don't use diet to control my effort, I use my brain ... which aside from the skin is about the biggest organ, and certainly the most powerful.

A lot of people go out hard at the start because they are enthusiastic, or inexperienced ... whether or not they have drank a lot of coffee, or 5-Hour energy, or guarana tablets ... and most riders figure out after a couple times burning out, "Hey, I am starting too fast and burning out early." It isn't rocket science.

The Nutrition science is very interesting ... but as with all scientific research, the hardest part is drawing the right conclusions from the data, whether or not they are the conclusions you want therm to be.

Sojodave

I'm training for a 140 mile ride on June 17th. I'm a diabetic and eat low carb and I'm fat adapted. (I eat less than 20 carbs a day)

I've done a couple of 60's and a couple of 75'ers with my last one with an avg speed of 17.6. I'm planning on doing a 110 this Saturday (Supported ride). I'm looking for suggestions for what to eat. Here is my current plan.

Breakfast: Bullet proof Postum with coconut oil, butter, and hwcream. Eggs and bacon.
25 mile stop: Big handful of macadamia nuts
50 mile stop: Bib handful of salted almonds
75 mile stop: Quest bar
100 mile stop: Kind bar
With water and Nunn energy tablets.

Racing Dan

Why even eat anything at all if you are not taking in carbohydrate? Im sure you and everybody else in the northern hemisphere has at least a few pounds of fat stored somewhere.

redlude97

speed doesn't really tell you everything. Do you have an idea of your lactate threshold and/or at least perceived effort relative to your max? Staying low carb and fat adapted during the ride is possible if you stay below 60% of your lactate threshold(probably 50% to be safe) at a new long distance. With depleted glycogen stores going into the ride you don't have a lot of buffer capacity. Are you type 1 or type 2 diabetic? Personally I would carb load and eat plenty of carbs during the ride, which is what most low carb cyclists do during performance efforts, but your diabetic state plays a roll in that.

redlude97

Said much more eloquently than I

Maelochs

I am not nor have I ever been diabetic ... so i have no advice to offer beyond, "Enjoy the ride."

Sojodave

I'm a type 2. I lost 50 lbs and reduced my A1c from 8.9 down to 4.7 without drugs on lchf. I tried carb loading on a ride once and I got sick to my stomach because my body wasn't used to carbs. Unfortunately, I can't pull a shopping cart behind me on long rides.

Carbonfiberboy 

I used to ride with a guy who could drop me on hills pulling a trailer with his lab in it. I use carbs, but never carb load. The technicolor yawn is the usual response to carb loading right before a ride for anyone. It's also called carb-unloading.

RichardR1015

I agree. Thanks to Zman for the assistance and enlightenment. I'll keep at it and keep working on the eating.

redlude97

unless you are on a low carb diet, you have probably already topped off your glycogen stores with a normal diet.

Zurichman2

If you have a riding club around you it wouldn't hurt to join them or maybe a LBS shop that has some seasoned riders. I have done lots of group rides and know for sure that there are cyclists out there that luv giving back to the sport and there is no better way to see someone finishing their first century ride. I have enjoyed doing it.

Zman

Racing Dan

4 energy gels is about 400 kcal, 2 protein bars are about 600 kcal but im guessing only half of that is from sugars. You dont need protein on your ride, you need easily absorbed carbs to fuel your muscles. Have no idea what advice you were given, but imo, this is nowhere near enough. The reality of it is, you cant absorb as much energy as you expend on a bike, thus the further you go the more depleted you become. Therefore you must maximise the uptake by ingesting low/no-fibre foods that is also 100% carbs or close to.it. Gels and sugery drink is a favourite but not all can stomach it for extended periods. I like soda, bags of different sweets and white bread sandwiches. I once did a long ride on boiled potatoes with some salt, just to see. Worked fine, but a little bulky :-)


You will enjoy your ride much better if you drink and eat enough.

SapInMyBlood

I've done 200k fasted (1300m elevation) ... with a 29kph average. (www.strava.com/activities/3348857811)
I didn't bring electrolytes or salt either because I'm an idiot, but I normally do on fasted rides.

The amount of glycogen you'll burn on a ride depends entirely on whether you're performing aerobically or anaerobically, and the disparity between the two will change further depending on your metabolic conditioning and lypolidic metabolism efficiency.

SapInMyBlood

As you normally do 40-50 mile rides, and this is your first 100, bring ample amounts of food, electrolytes, water, and make sure you cycle at a SLOW enough pace that you can sustain for the entire duration of the ride. You should be able to breathe comfortably through your nose and maintain an on-going conversation within your aerobic range. It will definitely feel slow, but that's how you ride for 10+ hours

goenrdoug

Dude took the ride three years ago.. I think he's good now..