tiger1964 

Perhaps I should have two topics, but this seems more economical of forum space.

(A) OK, just had my second flat of the season, without running over anything. In both cases, one front and one rear, the hole in the rim (where the spoke nipples are inserted) was exposed enough that the edge came into contact with the tube; the rim tapes was not centered in the depressed path in the rim. I do not recall installing the rim tape that sloppily (indeed, the rear tape meandered like the Mississippi River), but perhaps refrain from sipping a glass of wine during bike assembly? Anyway, what I am wondering is, can the tape wander a bit after installation. The tape is Velox, not super impressed with the adhesive during initial installation, but I’d think once everything is in place, what pressures would cause the tape to move sideways? Data points: Ukai rims with a nice deep channel for the tape, Continental GP5000 tires, Continental tubes but do not recall model name. Is there better tape? When I was young, used rubber rim strips and never, ever had this problem.

(B) Well, now I have a tube in my underseat bag with a tiny pinhole in it, need to swap that out prior to my next ride. Hey, why shouldn’t I patch tubes instead of discarding them, at least for an emergency get-me-home tube in my bag? My last patch kit purchase was probably +/- 1973, came in a little blue plastic box. What’s a good patch kit these days? For (1) to keep a patch in my bag in case of a 2nd flat while riding, and also (2) for in-shop use.

dddd

There are good techniques for not forcing the rim tape off of it's centering within the rim, mainly it comes down to getting the air-plumped tube inside of the tire in a less-twisted state, so that upon it's coming in contact with the rim tape upon initial inflation, it doesn't impart any sideways shear force on the rim tape.

To this end, I try to install the plumped tube into the tire before fitting the tire to the rim, and then lift (instead of roll) the tube into the rim cavity. This prevents the tube from becoming twisted (which may result in the tube trying to un-twist upon initial inflation, thus moving the rim tape sideways).
Alternately, I just as oftenoften install a tube into a tire where one bead is already in the rim cavity, and all of the above applies equally.
Another important detail is to get the entire tube into the rim cavity before starting to fit the second bead into the rim!
And lastly, I usually do have to let some air out as I am working the second bead into the rim.

Never install a tube into the tire and rim before plumping it with some air!

SJX426 

(B) Any kit that uses REMA patches. Still the best.
(A) never seen this situation with my wheels. Possibly the tube was twisted upon installation and as the pressure increased it move the rim tape (Unlikely).

dddd

For patch kits, a known name brand, fresh (thin) glue and making sure that the even coat of glue is COMPLETELY dry before applying the patch are the three major ingredients to a reliable patch.

And don't apply the patch to an inflated (stretched) tube, lest the tube later pull itself away from the patch starting at the hole (I'll spare y'all the physics of why).

I myself always stretch some plastic baggie material over my finger when I apply the glue.
And I try to get the layer down quick and stop spreading it before it becomes at all tacky (this is to get a more uninterrupted layer of glue on the tube).

canklecat

Velox and similar cloth tape usually sticks pretty well to rims, with a couple of exceptions: if the rim was greasy or dusty; the air pressure is too low.

Another trick is choosing rim tape just wide enough to cover the bottom of the rim trough without covering the inner walls (which can hinder seating the bead). I tend to choose cloth rim tape on the narrow side, just enough to cover the spoke nipple holes, but there is a risk the tape will squiggle out of place if I'm not meticulous about cleaning the rim first. I tend to ride with lower pressure (around 60-70 psi for my front tires in 700x25; around 75 psi for 700x23; around 85-95 psi rear -- I weigh 150), but so far I haven't had any problems with narrow rim tape moving out of position and exposing the spoke nipple holes, which can allow tubes to extrude into the holes and weaken, usually with a split on the inner facing surface.

Regarding patching tubes, I'm frugal and always patch tubes if they're worth salvaging. Especially the past year, with some bike supplies becoming scarce or more expensive. I've never had a patch fail when I applied it properly. I've had two fail when I rushed and botched the job -- once with a self adhesive patch that I wrinkled, allowing air to slowly leak through the wrinkle; and once with a glued patch when I didn't center the patch over puncture. The patch corner barely covered the puncture and developed a slow leak.

On the road I carry self sticking patches, if I feel like patching on the spot rather than swapping tubes. I prefer Lezyne, but those are getting harder to find. Park and others make some that are okay, but not as good as Lezyne. If the puncture location is obvious I'll patch without completely removing the tire and tube -- just pull out the bead on one side, pull out just enough of the tube to work on, apply a self adhesive patch, inflate and go.

At home I'll use old school glued patches. How many patches I'll apply depends on the tube. I sometimes use Continental's very thin Race 28 Light, and tend to patch those only a couple of times before retiring them. With the regular Race 28 or comparable tubes I'll patch 'em up to half a dozen times. Especially for my hybrids, or my older steel bike that I mostly use for casual group rides.

I've even patched a latex tube, which wasn't as difficult as some internet lore claims. I just used a Lezyne self sticking patch. But I waited until I got home to clean the tube carefully, including with a towelette dampened with isopropyl alcohol, because those latex tubes were powdered by the seller, and to remove my greasy paw prints. That patch held just fine for a year and a lot of miles. When the tube failed it wasn't at the patch, but around the base of the valve stem where it extruded through an oversized hole cut out for the valve and gradually weakened. My bad for not paying closer attention to the rim tape, which Vittoria and Silca both emphasize.

I'm usually over-prepared, and even my Lezyne Road Caddy seat bag, the most minimalist practical bag I could find (only around $20 too), holds a Conti Race 28 Light butyl tube, CO2 cartridge and inflator, tire lever, Lezyne self adhesive patch kit (which includes a tire boot), and multi-tool. Sometimes a spare quick link too. And every bike has a mini-pump, usually a Topeak RaceRocket. I'll use the CO2 only on group rides so folks aren't waiting for me. Otherwise if I'm riding solo or other folks aren't in a hurry, I'll use the pump. Because I'm a cheapskate, air is free, and my arms need a workout too. But in reality I get maybe one flat a year. And if I skip a year, I'll have half a dozen in a single week, then not again for a year or two. Because the gods of cycling mock us.

davester

You forgot the fourth major ingredient, which is sanding off the mould-release compound that coats the outside of the tube before applying the glue. If you don't do this, the patch WILL fail.

Either Rema or Park Tools patch kits are really good. So-called "glueless" patches are worthless unless having the patch fail at some indeterminate time is OK with you. It only adds about two minutes of time to use a proper vulcanizing patch kit. I always carry a patch kit in addition to at least one spare tube because flats usually come in threes. Similar to canklecat , if the hole location is obvious I will often just pull out that section of tube and apply a patch instead of the more time consuming changeout of the tube.

Much to the amusement of my riding buddies, I will keep adding patches to a tube until the point of ridiculousness and sometimes beyond. I think this stems from my paper route teen years when I didn't want to spend the money on tubes (or ride all the way to the bike shop to get them). With vulcanizing patches the repair is as strong as the tube so the only functional reason not to add patches it the miniscule amount of weight it might add to the wheel.

JohnDThompson 

Re: the rim tape wandering. Is the rim bed perhaps wet or oily? I've never seen that problem with Velox rim tape, and I have some wheels with the original Velox I installed 40 years ago when I built the wheels.

Re: patch kits. One word: Rema. Rema patches and glue, used together, are the most reilable patches I've found, and I patch a lot of tubes. The charity shop where I volunteer relies on donations, so new tubes are a rarity. I even have the bike shops save their discarded tubes from flat repairs for me, so I can take them to the charity shop and patch them. It's not cost effective for a bike shop to patch tubes, but with zero labor cost involved at the charity shop, it's worthwhile.

tiger1964 

Lots of detail there. Overall, I think I'm pretty gentle with the wheel, tire and tube during assembly and flat repair, I guess it's possible I displaced the rim tape but it somehow does not seem likely to me. Maybe I should demount the one I just replaced and see if the tape is shifted yet again. And, again, am I using the best rim tape or is there a more reliable product?

Just did a search on Amazon for REMA and got hits on Tip-Top; yup, there's that blue packaging I remember.

Thanks for the warning, likely the reasons I had trouble as a teenager w/patches. Unsure if I can 100% ensure I get that right on the side of the road. At home, I could us an electric jitterbug sander.

I can afford tubes, but I'd rather not throw them away if I can at least re-use them as emergency tubes. And, wow, got an e-mail from a vendor recently on some fancy lightweight tube at over $36 each! Yikes!

Velo Mule

I have always liked the Rema patches and kits. My co-worker swears by the Park glueless patches so I have a kit on it's way. The benefit is that with a rubber cement, the first patch you do, you pierce the tube and the glue is good. Then you put the kit away and you may not get to use the glue again for a year or more. Then you get the next flat, think that you have things covered, only to find out that the glue has dried up. This is the situation that I'm trying to avoid.

So now, I have a spare tube, and the glueless patches coming and I'll take along the Tip Top kit until I get confidence with the glueless patches.

By the way, my personal (yes, thrifty is an art and science) thinking is that as long as the patches are not on top of one another, and the valve stem area is good, keep patching the tube.

davester

Ah yes, this is an issue. I deal with it in two ways: 1) I screw that cap on as tight as I can without breaking it; 2) I carry a second fresh tube of glue that gets replaced ASAP after I start using it.

obrentharris 

As @JohnDThompson suggested above many of us have been using Velox tape successfully for decades. I don't know if it is the "best" product, but it certainly is up to the task.
Brent

BFisher

Regarding Velox rim tape, I have used it in the past and never had an adhesion problem.

However, I recently put some brand new 16mm Velox tape on a thoroughly degreased set of rims and the adhesion was very poor. It was falling off on its own before I could mount the tires. Even as I applied it, the lack of stickiness was noticeable as it came off the roll. So, I don't know if I got some old stock or if Velox had a bad batch. I know of another member here that had a similar experience recently.

SJX426 

@tiger1964
I have a couple of Park and performance glueless boxes you can have. They are useless from my perspective. I even cared little alcohol wipes to clean the tubes prior to using the patches.

73StellaSX76

I add some talcum powder inside the tire to help the tube find it’s natural lay when inflating. Seems to help as most of my patches are situated on the outer facing part of the tube. I seem to patch a tube 4-5 times before I need to permanently retire the tube for other reasons.

I carry two spare tubes as there have been times when I needed both. Such as when I unavoidably ran over a carpet nail strip and flatted booth tires at once. I’ll find the smallest tubes (ultralights) of the correct size to carry as spares. I used to fit undersized tubes to save weight, that worked fine when the tube had no patches, but when patched the tube seemed to stretch too much with respect to the patch and it peals and creates leaks. These were the only times I’ve had patches fail.

I’ve tried glueless patches a number of times over the years. A couple have leaked which erodes my confidence in them.

Make sure you are using the proper width rim tape for the rim channel. I’ve used Velox tape forever but now prefer plastic, non-adhesive strips with a snug fit. If the cloth variety get wet by riding in rain a lot it can take some time for the tape to dry out.

HTupolev

If using old-school single-wall rims with a narrow deep center channel, use a narrow enough tape (or rubber rim strip) to sit within the channel so that it won't slide around.

If using double-wall rims, use tape that covers the entire base of the rim bed, so that it cannot slide left or right. If this is a modern tubeless-compatible rim, use a thin tubeless tape instead of cloth tape even if you do not intend to set the tire up tubelessly: tubeless rims have precise diameter that relies on thin taping to end up spot-on, and cloth tape will build the bead seat shoulders up too high for reasonable tire mounting.

REMA for glued patches. Park GP-2 for glueless.

If repairing latex tubes with a glued patch kit, a piece cut from an old latex tube makes a very effective patch. When doing this, it's not a bad idea to put the vulcanizing fluid on both the tube and the patch.

delbiker1 

I normally do my patching at home and usually wait until I have a few to patch. I can use a whole small tube and be done with it. Rema and Park Tools both work well if the proper process is used. I also use glueless patches at times. Fortunately, I do not get that many flats. I have nearly 3000 miles 2021 with no flats. I believe my last one was about 5000 miles ago.

I don't like flats, but they usually do not affect me much. Having quality tires that are in good condition is key. Being proficient at repairing/replacing the tubes dramatically lessens the frustration.

beicster 

I have been on a flat tire jag. Seems like I was getting them all the time. I finally figured out it was the rim tape. I got that fixed and then had a flat the other day that was on the outside of the tube. There was nothing in the tire. The hole was on a fold that felt like a thin spot in the tube. Since there is no bike shop in town, I had to buy this one at Wal Mart. Anyone have a recommendation on higher quality tubes that don't have thin spots?

tiger1964 

Well, these wheels looked clean to me (per a previous topic, I bought an entire bike for a Superbe gruppo to transfer to my frame; everything looked so pristine I didn't polish any parts, just installed, this includes the wheels). Perhaps on a rainy day I should de-mount the tires, clean the rims with alcohol (?), and new tape.

Hmm. And I'm using Velox from a ten-pack I bought. So, if one tape is bad, they all might be.

Thanks but I think I can afford patches. The advice I get here at BF is generous enough. But the offer is appreciated.

Sounds like time to get both.

Spaghetti Legs 

I have a box of 100 Rema patches and a jar of Slime rubber cement, I now see I bought in 2015.

https://www.amazon.com/Slime-1050-Ru...s%2C157&sr=8-2

Like others, I don't patch on the road but carry 1-2 spare tubes and some glueless patches and duct tape for emergency use on those disaster days with multiple flats. If you use the gluless patch, carry a hand pump as it's very much possible you will need to stop every 2-3 miles to pump the tire back up. I don't use the little portable glued patch kits anymore as in my experience, the little tube of glue dries up before you actually need it.