Alzerbster

Here is another from Ekberg on intermittent fasting. He has lots of videos on health related topics. You will learn more from him than any doctor that is all about giving you medications. I used to take a drug for Gerd for years. No doctor ever told me that the medication wasn't good for me which it was not. I learned how to get off the drug by watching Ekbergs videos, and have been able to stay off the drug ever since.

big john

I have no discipline, I couldn't force myself to follow a fasting plan or even lose weight by trying to lose weight. I always eat breakfast, just cold cereal and coffee. I have no interest in denying meals for whatever reason. If there was a study that concluded I could live longer or be healthier by manipulating my diet or fasting it wouldn't matter to me.
I feel very fortunate to be 68 and still able to do what I do. I smoked a lot of cigarettes for 20 years, drank enough to cause internal bleeding, worked in toxic environments, etc. I've outlived my grandfather, one uncle, one brother, and my father made it about 8 months older than I am now.

I'm about 200 pounds now which is lighter than I have been as an adult since the time I starved and lost 55 pounds when I was about 19. Was close to 250 in high school. Went back up to 260 when I was drinking.

Kudos to those who have self control, it ain't me.

davester

Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man. Also, that opinion flies in the face of facts gleaned from both microbiologyl and molecular biology research. There is ample evidence showing that cellular and macro aging mechanisms in a variety of animals can be reversed.

Carbonfiberboy 

Not at all. I'm another one who eats Mediterranean. There's quite a bit of research that's been done on healthy diets including intermittent fasting, see: https://www.healthline.com/nutrition...OC_TITLE_HDR_4

TakingMyTime

I have fasted a couple of times. I will usually have my last meal around 5pm and then fast that evening and following day. When I wake up the next day I will begin eating again around noon, so about 40 hours. I'm not sure it did anything for me but I did feel as if I had done something I wasn't sure I was capable of doing. I did notice that my stomach had shrunken a little and it didn't take as much to fill me up the next couple of days. I would do it again but I don't think I'd be up for doing it on a regular schedule.

Biker395 

I followed the links too, and had the same reaction. I have no training in microbiology whatsoever, and struggled to pass basic chemistry, but most of what I saw appear to discuss events on a cellular level. That is fine, but it is a huge jump from there to the notion that intermittent fasting extends human lifetimes. I remain skeptical.

Noodling around those references, I found this article:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3680567/

Noteworthy to me was this quote:

"People should also be wary of books written for broad audiences that explain the science behind fasting or any other health trend, he says. One purpose of writing a book for the consumer market, after all, is to sell as many copies as possible. Authors tend to present only evidence supporting their point of view, suggests Freedland, while ignoring evidence that contradicts it. “It’s a lot of spin when you write a book.”

That statement was of interest to me because it (1) reflects my suspicions about the health trends, especially those that seem to promise the impossible or everything and (2) the guy they are quoting is my urologist!

That said, there is probably also no harm associated with intermittent fasting by an otherwise healthy person, so if it floats your boat, give it a try.

Also interesting is that if it includes not eating anything for 12-24 hours I've been doing that for years. I spent the last 25 years rising early, hopping on my bike, and riding to work first thing in the morning. From that point, I'll have a cup of coffee, and maybe some tea until lunch. That would mean that I would have been fasting at least 15 hours 5 days a week. I didn't regard it as fasting ... I just didn't want to take the time to eat and I didn't seem to need it to ride the 17 miles to work. I'd also have a very light lunch, top off the tank with a bowl of oatmeal for the ride home (I also carried food just in case cuz bonking sucks), and have a large evening meal.

big john

I've seen you eat and I got the impression you had been fasting for days.

rsbob 

OK admit it, you are a closet faster.

What you quote above re: selling books by not presenting contrary evidence is spot on.

We stick to a Mediterranean-ish/vegan diet and it has worked very well for my wife and me as our health stats and weight confirm. We may not live another 1.5 years longer by not fasting (your method excluded) but I prefer quality to quantity. YMMV

jackb

Many people believe that disease and serious medical conditions are caused by the the things people do. While this is true to a certain degree--for example, excessive drinking can lead to liver and kidney problems--diseases and conditions do occur not as a result of something a person does because they are part of the natural order of things. We have a tendency to blame some individuals for the illnesses they get as it all they had to do was change something in their daily lives to avoid them. Eating well, getting exercise, and avoiding behaviors that can lead to excesses that can cause disease is generally accepted as being "good" for us. I'm not so sure about living longer. I'm not sure that the aging process can be slowed. We all grow old and as we age we develop conditions that accompany age and I suspect there is little we can do about. All that said, if one tries out a particular diet to accomplish some health goal and it works, well there you go. If it doesn't work, well there you go again.

Carbonfiberboy 

I saw a study in JAMA, maybe a year ago, which analyzed as many nutritional studies as they could find for the past several years. They concluded that about 80% (I don't remember the exact number, but like 78%-83%) contained researcher bias. I never believe anything that the author is making money off of, at least not without multiple confirmations. So far, I've seen one book which wasn't obviously biased, but it wasn't worth reading anyway, just the usual good nutrition advice.

IME a very good way to get or stay healthy and lose weight if desired is called "smaller portions." It's really simple and not hard to implement, same food, just less of it.

MoAlpha

One major problem is that NIH funding is focused on diseases, rather than sub-clinical health effects of diet in the general population. As a result, a lot diet research, including some of the best, has been funded by food industries, tainting it to varying degrees. This is, hopefully, changing with the realization that symptomatic disorders (obesity, T2DM, cardiovascular disease) are late stages of a condition beginning years or decades earlier.

Carbonfiberboy 

Doctors . . . T2DM = type 2 diabetes mellitus

davester

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Note that your cited article is from 2013, before most longevity science research was published, and prior to the understanding of cellular aging mechanisms such as autophagy. Since that time a massive amount of research on these topics has been conducted and published, though usually only in professional journals, which is why it's a little difficult to sum up for laypersons. Also note that the quote provided is opposed to consumer market publications, which is not what we're talking about here. The support for intermittent fasting has come through peer-reviewed research published in scientific journals. Try this one, which is the one summarized in Dr. Ekberg's youtube video. Note that you'll have to sign in to get a free read of the article: <a href="https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMra1905136">https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMra1905136</a>

Bob Ross

The only times I ever fast are when I'm prepping for a colonoscopy, or when I'm prepping for some, um, adult recreational activities (that on the surface aren't all that different from a colonoscopy).

Oh, sorry, TMI?

Biker395 

Have you another link to that article? I couldn't even find the abstract outside of a paywall.

davester

That's the only link that I know of. Note that the paywall allows you to register for free to read 2 NEJM articles per month with only your name and email address. Alternatively, you can listen to Dr Ekberg's youtube linked above that goes through the article fairly systematically.

Flip Flop Rider

great thread and discussion

everyone is different so what may be ideal for one will be a no go for another