Good frame gone bad
11-23-22, 09:01 PM
#26
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Not quite sure what the fuss is about, this is clearly an attempt at recreating a Ritchey Breakaway.
@RustyJames, there is a non-zero probability that the Atelier would take on such work, but I'd love to see it! @Andy_K will bring the buffing compound.
@RustyJames, there is a non-zero probability that the Atelier would take on such work, but I'd love to see it! @Andy_K will bring the buffing compound.
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11-23-22, 09:07 PM
#27
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The blades are just as thick wall and heavy as 531, but with the extra strength from heat treating. Bad engineering, if you ask me. They should have made them lighter, but they chickened out. So they made forks so strong that they ruin frames that they conceivably could have saved if they'd bent. In that rather particular scenario where a little bending in the blades can save the frame. Yes I know this is a fairly narrowly defined circumstance (crash "only so hard" and no harder), but it can never happen if the fork is a lot stronger than the frame.
Being so overly strong also makes it extremely difficult to add rake, so don't plan on trying low trail on one of these.
Yes a full 753 fork does have a weaker steerer — it's unbutted, so thinner at the bottom than a 531 steerer. So maybe the steerer could bend... but it usually doesn't
To me, the best blades to use with a 753 frame would be Col. SL, or similar gauge non-heat-treated tubes from any other maker. A little lighter than 753, and a lot weaker, so it might save the frame in a crash. Might even reduce the likelihood of a fatigue crack in the frame (say in the bottom of the DT near the HT lug), if the flex in the fork attenuates the shock forces from hitting bumps and pot-holes. SL is only a little thinner than 753 though, so there's only a tiny bit more flex.
If you like flexy blades, seek out some Excell, from around 1990 I think, one of the few makers that made blades substantially thinner than Reynolds or Columbus. I used them on a fork for my wife that came out weighing 450 g. (under a pound) which is quite rare for a steel 700c fork. She said she didn't notice the extra flex, until she got on a moden CF bike with a 1-1/2" steerer, stiff as a board... and hated it.
A big heavy guy might find those scary-light Excell blades too flexy.Mark B
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11-23-22, 09:56 PM
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If it's a 60 cm frame, am I the only one wondering if what's left of the tubes could be used to make a 50 cm frame?
11-23-22, 10:34 PM
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gugie careful what you wish for. I’ll be at my brother’s house tomorrow and he lives down the street from you.
bulgie very insightful info. The intact fork and hammered frame may be related.
I did some measuring and the dimensions are a rough average not totally accounting for decals, paint, missing paint, dents, etc.
TT: 25.4mm OD, 23” L CTC (~58mm?)
DT: 28.5mm OD, 24” L CTC (~60mm?)
ST: 29mm OD, 23” CTC (see above)
Included seatpost is 27.2mm and fits perfectly.
Serial no. on BB;
DS: SB810C
NDS: 60
I wouldn’t attempt to date this thing (or it’s sister) based on components since it’s a hodgepodge of 7400 D-A, late model 105 RD, WTB seat, Weinmann LP18 rear wheel with a Quanta hub and 6 speed Sunrace freewheel, Shimano cartridge BB, Ritchey bars/stem and so on.
bulgie very insightful info. The intact fork and hammered frame may be related.
I did some measuring and the dimensions are a rough average not totally accounting for decals, paint, missing paint, dents, etc.
TT: 25.4mm OD, 23” L CTC (~58mm?)
DT: 28.5mm OD, 24” L CTC (~60mm?)
ST: 29mm OD, 23” CTC (see above)
Included seatpost is 27.2mm and fits perfectly.
Serial no. on BB;
DS: SB810C
NDS: 60
I wouldn’t attempt to date this thing (or it’s sister) based on components since it’s a hodgepodge of 7400 D-A, late model 105 RD, WTB seat, Weinmann LP18 rear wheel with a Quanta hub and 6 speed Sunrace freewheel, Shimano cartridge BB, Ritchey bars/stem and so on.
11-23-22, 11:15 PM
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Not quite sure what the fuss is about, this is clearly an attempt at recreating a Ritchey Breakaway.
@RustyJames, there is a non-zero probability that the Atelier would take on such work, but I'd love to see it! @Andy_K will bring the buffing compound.
@RustyJames, there is a non-zero probability that the Atelier would take on such work, but I'd love to see it! @Andy_K will bring the buffing compound.
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11-24-22, 09:45 AM
#32
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Oh, I don’t want to repair it. It would be interesting to see.
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11-24-22, 10:04 AM
#33
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Oh, I don’t want to repair it. It would be interesting to see an SBDU frame mangled so badly
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11-24-22, 11:04 AM
#34
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I did some measuring and the dimensions are a rough average not totally accounting for decals, paint, missing paint, dents, etc.
TT: 25.4mm OD, 23” L CTC (~58mm?)
DT: 28.5mm OD, 24” L CTC (~60mm?)
ST: 29mm OD, 23” CTC (see above)
Included seatpost is 27.2mm and fits perfectly.
Serial no. on BB;
DS: SB810C
NDS: 60
I wouldn’t attempt to date this thing (or it’s sister) based on components since it’s a hodgepodge of 7400 D-A, late model 105 RD, WTB seat, Weinmann LP18 rear wheel with a Quanta hub and 6 speed Sunrace freewheel, Shimano cartridge BB, Ritchey bars/stem and so on.
It's also possible that a different serial number sequence was used for frames built for the RCCA.
raleigh-sb4059.com/2016/03/02/ re serial numbers
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11-24-22, 01:21 PM
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Here is a discussion of SBDU serial number and frame characteristics. Given that neither 753 tubing nor the Raleigh Cycle Corporation of America existed in 1976, perhaps the serial number ends in a number rather than a C. If so, that points to 1986. According to the discussion about Cinelli bottom brackets, the orientation of the chainstay tangs indicates imperial rather than metric sizing.
It's also possible that a different serial number sequence was used for frames built for the RCCA.
raleigh-sb4059.com/2016/03/02/ re serial numbers
It's also possible that a different serial number sequence was used for frames built for the RCCA.
raleigh-sb4059.com/2016/03/02/ re serial numbers
11-24-22, 01:57 PM
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11-24-22, 03:38 PM
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But will it plane anymore with all that misplaced extra weight up front?
I'm assuming that hex head bolt passes through to the other side, and is held by a nut similar to those on the left?
DD
I'm assuming that hex head bolt passes through to the other side, and is held by a nut similar to those on the left?
DD
11-24-22, 06:01 PM
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11-24-22, 07:15 PM
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A bead of JB Weld.
DD
DD
11-24-22, 07:52 PM
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11-25-22, 04:36 PM
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Very sad to see that kind of so called fix. The Reynolds753 tubing is only sold in limited quantities and one must be a silver brazing certified welder to receive the 753 brazing certification. 753 is now very scarce and hard to repair.
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11-26-22, 12:42 AM
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Frame tubing of the same gauge as 753 is available. Rather than repair with 753, one could use a similar tube. For example, the .7/.4/.7mm 753 top tube could substitute a similar dimensioned top tube from Kasai.
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01-20-23, 10:25 PM
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OK I got the frame from RustyJames (thanks man!) and disassembled the frame patches. Incredibly, both places had tight-fitting solid aluminum bars, not hollow or tubular. Lathe-turned to a diameter to fit 'just so' inside the tubes. Put in with screws and some kind of rubbery glue, like barge cement? Totally inappropriate type of glue — luckily, since I wouldn't have been able to get them out if they'd been put in with proper toughened epoxy.
The alu bars, the steel clamps, nuts and bolts all together weighed 516 g, well over a pound.
The frame, now divested of all the repair pieces, weighs 1819 g, but the missing piece of TT means it would have weighed ~1850 g originally.
That seems heavy; what do you-all think. My own '86 Davidson, about the same size, weighs 200 g less and it's not the lightest gauge of Prestige. My DT is 3 "notches" from the lightest in fact, and the TT is 2 notches heavier. The rear stays on mine are Col. SL, which should be a tad heavier than 753. Makes me wonder if SBDU subbed in some heavier tubes. I tried a 27.4 seatpost, won't go in even after I spread the pinchbolt ears a little to counter any amount they might be bent in, from tightening on a too-small post. It's my understanding that a real 753 ST should take 27.4.
Anyway, not sure if I want to repair it, still might, but the chainstays are a little gouged up, both sides. I'd hate to put a new front triangle on and repaint it, only to have the rear break soon after. So this might end up being wind chimes or a shop stool.
Mark B
The alu bars, the steel clamps, nuts and bolts all together weighed 516 g, well over a pound.
The frame, now divested of all the repair pieces, weighs 1819 g, but the missing piece of TT means it would have weighed ~1850 g originally.
That seems heavy; what do you-all think. My own '86 Davidson, about the same size, weighs 200 g less and it's not the lightest gauge of Prestige. My DT is 3 "notches" from the lightest in fact, and the TT is 2 notches heavier. The rear stays on mine are Col. SL, which should be a tad heavier than 753. Makes me wonder if SBDU subbed in some heavier tubes. I tried a 27.4 seatpost, won't go in even after I spread the pinchbolt ears a little to counter any amount they might be bent in, from tightening on a too-small post. It's my understanding that a real 753 ST should take 27.4.
Anyway, not sure if I want to repair it, still might, but the chainstays are a little gouged up, both sides. I'd hate to put a new front triangle on and repaint it, only to have the rear break soon after. So this might end up being wind chimes or a shop stool.
Mark B
01-20-23, 10:41 PM
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Oh and for the record, yes I am 753-certified.
..tho if I repair it, I probably won't use 753 tubes. I have some, but they're in sets, and more valuable if used to make a new frame. If I use some currently-available tubes (say Reynolds 725) in the same gauge, it will ride identically to original.
-mb
..tho if I repair it, I probably won't use 753 tubes. I have some, but they're in sets, and more valuable if used to make a new frame. If I use some currently-available tubes (say Reynolds 725) in the same gauge, it will ride identically to original.
-mb
01-20-23, 11:27 PM
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You’re welcome? I hope you can get something from it besides an education.
01-21-23, 12:05 AM
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I don't know. I have no experience with 753, but I am a nerd so I have records of some of my frame weights. The lightest frame I recorded a weight for is my Coppi with Columbus Genius tubing. It's pretty much exactly the same weight, 4.08 pounds == 1850.7 grams. My Pinarello Montello (Columbus SLX) weighs in at 4.35 pounds (1973). On the other hand, my Reynolds 853 LeMond, for which I don't have a bare frame weight, was half a pound lighter than the Coppi when both were built with the same components. The LeMond has a carbon fork, but it's carbon fiber from 2001, so I really hope it isn't very light. If I weighed that frame, I'm guessing it would be less than 1850 grams.
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01-21-23, 12:19 AM
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The fitting into the lug is a real work of art--this would be a fun Frankenstein rig to bring to the group rides--a definite conversation starter.
01-21-23, 03:51 AM
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It might be fun to repair with artisan quality (Mark) frankenpatches.
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01-21-23, 04:33 AM
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