Early Klein Crankset Question
#1
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Early Klein Crankset Question
On a lark I bought a very nice condition + reasonably priced + awesomely purple 1990 Klein Quantum online thinking I would make a few updates to it and would have a kick-arse ride come springtime. Unbeknownst to me, these early Kleins have an oddball bottom bracket design, i.e. a 119mm spindle running in press fit bearings in a 76mm wide shell . I remember lusting after a Klein back in the day and do not recall ever hearing about this quirk in any of the groups I rode with or shops I frequented. (Frankly, I find it hard to believe that someone as smart as Gary Klein thought this was a good idea.) I have done a lot of online searching about my options and know that I am stuck with what it is but I am wondering if the strange dimensions of the BB were taken into account in establishing the chainline of these bikes. The bike has a full 8-speed era Shimano 105 group and looking at the crank it looks like a normal crank and not some one-off freak to match the Klein's BB.I want to swap the 105 out for something with a 110mm BCD to run chainrings much less than 52/39 (age and locale make this a must-have for me and I do not want to go with some pizza sized cassette) but most of the affordable options call for spindle lengths of 110 - 113mm (or some proprietary taper design; I am looking at you Sugino). I worry that installing something like these is going to result in shifting and/or chain rub issues. A compact double is my first choice but if is not an option, I will go with the option of running 50/34 chainrings only on a suitable triple crankset that usually use 118mm spindles. Thank you for taking the time to read this and I am confident someone in C&V land will offer some sage insights about Kleins and their chainlines.
#2
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An early Klein to me would be 1975.
1990 is 15 years on.
Quantum was the budget frame, decent but odd.
I agree, go Phil Wood.
1990 is 15 years on.
Quantum was the budget frame, decent but odd.
I agree, go Phil Wood.
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My ‘92 Klein Performance also had this BB. Worked great with Ritchey Logic (made by Sugino) triple cranks for me for over 38,000 miles, and my son is still using it with a Dura-Ace double crankset in a 9-speed setup, still going strong. Chainline was fine with both.
I’d imagine others in this community will know of other cranksets that use that spindle length or something close. A WTB post in the C&V For Sale sub-forum will probably turn up something that will fit your needs.
AFAIK, Sugino doesn’t use a proprietary taper, unless that’s what you consider JIS to be. Their cranks are widely used on all sorts of bikes. I’m using a Sugino AT (very popular among C&V-ers) on an SKF BB, and used their popular Sugino XD on son’s wife’s bike with a Shimano BB.
I’d imagine others in this community will know of other cranksets that use that spindle length or something close. A WTB post in the C&V For Sale sub-forum will probably turn up something that will fit your needs.
AFAIK, Sugino doesn’t use a proprietary taper, unless that’s what you consider JIS to be. Their cranks are widely used on all sorts of bikes. I’m using a Sugino AT (very popular among C&V-ers) on an SKF BB, and used their popular Sugino XD on son’s wife’s bike with a Shimano BB.
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AFAIK, Sugino doesn’t use a proprietary taper, unless that’s what you consider JIS to be. Their cranks are widely used on all sorts of bikes. I’m using a Sugino AT (very popular among C&V-ers) on an SKF BB, and used their popular Sugino XD on son’s wife’s bike with a Shimano BB.
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If you are OK with the current (square taper) bottom bracket axle, could you take some digital calipers & let us know what the BB axle width is (mm width)?
#7
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"AFAIK, Sugino doesn’t use a proprietary taper, unless that’s what you consider JIS to be." No, I do not consider JIS to be proprietary, however Sugino's online store lists a number of cranksets that use a "SG Mighty 4-Axle Taper" spindle; are you saying that this is only a fancy marketing name for JIS?
"An early Klein to me would be 1975." Please excuse my faux pas
Phil Wood External Bearing Kit - the problem with this is that there really aren't any modern crank axles that would span a 76mm BB shell + external bearings and where I live I am never going to find anyone who could face off the shell to a more normal 68mm
"If you are OK with the current (square taper) bottom bracket axle, could you take some digital calipers & let us know what the BB axle width is (mm width)?" it's a 119mm spindle running in press fit bearings in a 76mm wide shell
"An early Klein to me would be 1975." Please excuse my faux pas
Phil Wood External Bearing Kit - the problem with this is that there really aren't any modern crank axles that would span a 76mm BB shell + external bearings and where I live I am never going to find anyone who could face off the shell to a more normal 68mm
"If you are OK with the current (square taper) bottom bracket axle, could you take some digital calipers & let us know what the BB axle width is (mm width)?" it's a 119mm spindle running in press fit bearings in a 76mm wide shell
#8
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Where are you located? Most of us put that in some form in the User CP data. And try a WTB (Wanted To Buy) or ISO (In Search Of) in C&V Sales suggested previously.
Is there a bike co-op in your area, or a used bike emporium? Either would be a great source for a crankset that would meet your needs.
Probably no need to replace the existing BB spindle unless it’s no longer spinning smoothly. As noted earlier, that 119mm length works on a variety of earlier cranksets. Seems like only newer cranks use the shorter BB.
Is there a bike co-op in your area, or a used bike emporium? Either would be a great source for a crankset that would meet your needs.
Probably no need to replace the existing BB spindle unless it’s no longer spinning smoothly. As noted earlier, that 119mm length works on a variety of earlier cranksets. Seems like only newer cranks use the shorter BB.
#9
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The OP appears to be correct in saying that some current Sugino cranks use a proprietary taper.
Some current Sugino cranksets use what Sugino calls a "SG Mighty taper". In particular, their Mighty Tour and Mighty Mignon cranks use this taper. From Sugino's website page for their current "Mighty Tour 901D" and "Mighty Mignon 901D" cranksets:
Photos at that page appear to show it similar to a square taper, but with concave-dished sides.
This taper may or may not be used on other current Sugino cranks. I didn't look in detail.
Edited to add: OP, I'd be very hesitant to purchase one of those cranks without first confirming that a new BB for your specific frame was available with that proprietary taper - because I'd guess the spindle you have now isn't compatible. And I'd also guess you'll need a spindle length different from what you have now.
Some current Sugino cranksets use what Sugino calls a "SG Mighty taper". In particular, their Mighty Tour and Mighty Mignon cranks use this taper. From Sugino's website page for their current "Mighty Tour 901D" and "Mighty Mignon 901D" cranksets:
SG Mighty taper is a proprietary standard by Sugino, not compatible with other standards.
This taper may or may not be used on other current Sugino cranks. I didn't look in detail.
Edited to add: OP, I'd be very hesitant to purchase one of those cranks without first confirming that a new BB for your specific frame was available with that proprietary taper - because I'd guess the spindle you have now isn't compatible. And I'd also guess you'll need a spindle length different from what you have now.
Last edited by Hondo6; 11-25-22 at 04:53 AM.
#10
Death fork? Naaaah!!
My fairly early Performance sports a 6203 crank (110 bcd) on a 119 BB spindle.
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#11
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"AFAIK, Sugino doesn’t use a proprietary taper, unless that’s what you consider JIS to be." No, I do not consider JIS to be proprietary, however Sugino's online store lists a number of cranksets that use a "SG Mighty 4-Axle Taper" spindle; are you saying that this is only a fancy marketing name for JIS?
"An early Klein to me would be 1975." Please excuse my faux pas
Phil Wood External Bearing Kit - the problem with this is that there really aren't any modern crank axles that would span a 76mm BB shell + external bearings and where I live I am never going to find anyone who could face off the shell to a more normal 68mm
"If you are OK with the current (square taper) bottom bracket axle, could you take some digital calipers & let us know what the BB axle width is (mm width)?" it's a 119mm spindle running in press fit bearings in a 76mm wide shell
"An early Klein to me would be 1975." Please excuse my faux pas
Phil Wood External Bearing Kit - the problem with this is that there really aren't any modern crank axles that would span a 76mm BB shell + external bearings and where I live I am never going to find anyone who could face off the shell to a more normal 68mm
"If you are OK with the current (square taper) bottom bracket axle, could you take some digital calipers & let us know what the BB axle width is (mm width)?" it's a 119mm spindle running in press fit bearings in a 76mm wide shell
#12
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No, I want to replace the current 130mm bcd shimano 105 with a compact crankset with 110mm bcd. Yes, I am wanting to get lower gearing because it is hilly here and I am old. I don’t want to go with a large cassette.
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76mm shell width not unique to this application
also employed by Raleigh for models 20, Folder, Shopper
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76mm shell width not unique to this application
also employed by Raleigh for models 20, Folder, Shopper
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#14
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I would think that finding a double (or triple) 110 bcd square taper crank that will work with your current axle should be doable. You could buy new or used. You could also try a 110/74 bcd triple crank and if you were lucky, there would be sufficient clearance for a granny ring.