Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Advocacy & Safety
Reload this Page >

NYT: 5 cyclists killed near Las Vegas

Notices
Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

NYT: 5 cyclists killed near Las Vegas

Old 12-23-20, 09:31 PM
  #101  
CliffordK
Senior Member
 
CliffordK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 26,057
Mentioned: 209 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14479 Post(s)
Liked 2,440 Times in 1,816 Posts
As far as Meth (SPEED). A lot depends on the dose and usage. In some cases it can speed up reaction times, and help as a cognitive enhancer.

But, using it to prevent drowsiness may have other impacts including perhaps attention deficits.

I wonder if the impact could be similar to making poor choices with sleep deprivation, even if one is moderately alert.

I'm not sure if one can say SPEED was the only cause of the accident, but it may have been one of several factors that increased the risk.
CliffordK is offline  
Old 12-23-20, 09:43 PM
  #102  
Korina
Happy banana slug
 
Korina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Arcata, California, U.S., North America, Earth, Saggitarius Arm, Milky Way
Posts: 2,425

Bikes: 1992 Specialized Rockhopper Sport, 2016 Giant Liv Rove Lite, 1995 Trek Singletrack 930, 1994 Trek Multitrack 750

Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 892 Post(s)
Liked 579 Times in 390 Posts
The angle of the sun is as irrelevant as whether the cyclists had flashing lights; the truck driver admitted on camera to falling asleep at the wheel.
Korina is offline  
Old 12-23-20, 11:13 PM
  #103  
CliffordK
Senior Member
 
CliffordK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 26,057
Mentioned: 209 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14479 Post(s)
Liked 2,440 Times in 1,816 Posts
Originally Posted by Korina View Post
The angle of the sun is as irrelevant as whether the cyclists had flashing lights; the truck driver admitted on camera to falling asleep at the wheel.

I didn't see "falling asleep" confirmed earlier. It sounds like the driver was still struggling to make sense of what happened, and prompting by the officer didn't help.

There seems to be enough evidence of impairment that I'm surprised the police didn't take the driver into custody sooner.
CliffordK is offline  
Old 12-24-20, 08:32 AM
  #104  
jppe
Let's do a Century
 
jppe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 8,109

Bikes: Cervelo R3 Disc, Pinarello Prince/Campy SR; Cervelo R3/Sram Red; Trek 5900/Duraace, Cervelo P2C/Duraace, Cannondle Tandem/Ultegra, Lynskey GR260 Ultegra

Mentioned: 56 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 574 Post(s)
Liked 646 Times in 315 Posts
Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pD5W2sm3sQY

I didn't see "falling asleep" confirmed earlier. It sounds like the driver was still struggling to make sense of what happened, and prompting by the officer didn't help.

There seems to be enough evidence of impairment that I'm surprised the police didn't take the driver into custody sooner.
Just talking out loud:
From the video I was wondering about the truck driver’s reactions as well. They certainly appeared to be “off” to me. But I also wondered if some of it could have been from the mental shock of what he’d done. Or if he was already thinking about what was going to happen to him after what he’d done......loss of job, legal issues, knowing he had meth in his system, imprisonment, killing people, seeing lifeless bodies, etc. I guess only the truck driver knows??

The patrolman appeared to be sympathetic, but that might be part of his training trying to get all the facts as soon after the incident as possible, or maybe just a reflection of his personality???

Just my observations from the videos I’ve seen. Just a horrific situation.
__________________
Ride your Ride!!
jppe is offline  
Old 12-24-20, 10:49 AM
  #105  
CB HI
Cycle Year Round
 
CB HI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Honolulu, HI
Posts: 13,643
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1314 Post(s)
Liked 91 Times in 58 Posts
High level of meth in the driver, but he claims he fell asleep, but he woke up to see bicyclist, but he does not remember anything that happened. What a bunch of BS claims from the driver.
__________________
Land of the Free, Because of the Brave.
CB HI is offline  
Old 12-24-20, 11:21 AM
  #106  
CliffordK
Senior Member
 
CliffordK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 26,057
Mentioned: 209 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14479 Post(s)
Liked 2,440 Times in 1,816 Posts
Originally Posted by jppe View Post
Just talking out loud:
From the video I was wondering about the truck driver’s reactions as well. They certainly appeared to be “off” to me. But I also wondered if some of it could have been from the mental shock of what he’d done. Or if he was already thinking about what was going to happen to him after what he’d done......loss of job, legal issues, knowing he had meth in his system, imprisonment, killing people, seeing lifeless bodies, etc. I guess only the truck driver knows??

The patrolman appeared to be sympathetic, but that might be part of his training trying to get all the facts as soon after the incident as possible, or maybe just a reflection of his personality???

Just my observations from the videos I’ve seen. Just a horrific situation.
Thankfully I've never been in that situation. But, there are times that when I get very nervous that I will get physically cold to the point of shivering.

These early videos are helpful to understand a person's thinking before they have time to talk to their lawyers and formulate a "story". But, I'd imagine the man was fully in shock, and still trying to make sense of what happened, and why he hadn't recognized the cyclists until it was too late.
CliffordK is offline  
Likes For CliffordK:
Old 12-24-20, 12:49 PM
  #107  
JoeyBike
20+mph Commuter
 
JoeyBike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New Orleans, LA USA
Posts: 7,013

Bikes: Surly LHT, a folding bike, and a beater.

Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1150 Post(s)
Liked 84 Times in 55 Posts
Originally Posted by CB HI View Post
25 degree sun with a visor blocking it at that angle has no affect compared to driving while on meth.
In any accident there is usually a cumulative effect of bad things happening all at once. Dude was on meth, falling asleep, driving into the sun. None of these things were helpful in avoiding a disaster.

Just a side note. Meth heads are the least of my worries.

"Research backs up that concern. People prescribed sleeping pills are nearly twice as likely to be in a car crash, according to 2015 study in the American Journal of Public Health (PDF) that looked at the medical and driving records of nearly 410,000 adults. The researchers estimated that people taking sleep drugs were as likely to be in a car crash as those driving with a blood alcohol level over the legal limit." LINK

"According to the latest numbers, roughly 9 million Americans4% of U.S. adultsuse prescription sleep aids, or medications that can help with insomnia and other sleep issues." - Google search for "How many Americans take sleeping pills?" (13,128,000 = 4% of total number of adults in USA in 2019)

So total up the number of meth heads, sleeping pill users, drunks, and just exhausted people, plus electronic distractions, dogs, kids, etc., and what percentage of motorists passing you are 100% awake and focused when they pass YOU? Ah, relax! I'm sure you'll be OK on that freeway.
JoeyBike is offline  
Old 12-24-20, 02:39 PM
  #108  
Korina
Happy banana slug
 
Korina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Arcata, California, U.S., North America, Earth, Saggitarius Arm, Milky Way
Posts: 2,425

Bikes: 1992 Specialized Rockhopper Sport, 2016 Giant Liv Rove Lite, 1995 Trek Singletrack 930, 1994 Trek Multitrack 750

Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 892 Post(s)
Liked 579 Times in 390 Posts
Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
I didn't see "falling asleep" confirmed earlier. It sounds like the driver was still struggling to make sense of what happened, and prompting by the officer didn't help.

There seems to be enough evidence of impairment that I'm surprised the police didn't take the driver into custody sooner.
Here's a longer segment of the footage.
Korina is offline  
Old 12-24-20, 03:46 PM
  #109  
CliffordK
Senior Member
 
CliffordK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 26,057
Mentioned: 209 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14479 Post(s)
Liked 2,440 Times in 1,816 Posts
Originally Posted by Korina View Post
Several important details in the article:

  1. Barson told investigators he had used the drug the day before Thursday’s crash,
  2. authorities discovered “an extremely high level” of methamphetamine in Barson’s system
  3. He told investigators he used the drug the afternoon before the crash and then did not sleep well.
  4. He said he recently had relapsed, but that he threw out all his drug paraphernalia after the crash.
  5. Body camera footage showed investigators searching Barson’s belongings in the cab of the box truck and finding what they identified as possible drug paraphernalia.
    The trooper who searched the bag listed items she pulled out: scissors, lighters, bandages and Neosporin. She and the other troopers agreed that the items could be signs of drug use, according to the footage, and that investigators should check for track marks.
    .
  6. This was apparently a regular loop route that he took, Leaving Kingman Arizona in early AM, 108 miles to Vegas. 129 miles back through Bullhead. He was around 60 miles into the second leg. One loop per day.
    .
  7. As they approached Searchlight, at least seven riders broke from the larger group to seek cover from the wind behind their safety escort vehicle, a 2019 Subaru Outback... Barson was driving a 2019 Isuzu NPR HD box truck in the same southbound travel lane when he crashed into the bicyclists, pushing them into the Subaru, the Highway Patrol report said.
We don't know for sure whether or not he used meth the day of the crash. But, of course SPEED caused him not to sleep well. And, if he was coming down off of a high, then that could also indicate that he could have been experiencing a post drug slump. High blood levels could also indicate having already built up some tolerance for the drug.

Likely they don't like to give false information on TV, but it sounds like there should have been adequate suspicion to hold him after the crash.

This is one additional point of evidence that the car and trailing group of cyclists were likely on the roadway.
CliffordK is offline  
Old 12-25-20, 08:27 AM
  #110  
Paul Barnard
For The Fun of It
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Louisissippi Coast
Posts: 4,897

Bikes: Lynskey Backroad, Litespeed T6, Lynskey MT29, Burley Duet

Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1560 Post(s)
Liked 839 Times in 430 Posts
Originally Posted by JoeyBike View Post
In any accident there is usually a cumulative effect of bad things happening all at once. Dude was on meth, falling asleep, driving into the sun. None of these things were helpful in avoiding a disaster.

Just a side note. Meth heads are the least of my worries.

"Research backs up that concern. People prescribed sleeping pills are nearly twice as likely to be in a car crash, according to 2015 study in the American Journal of Public Health (PDF) that looked at the medical and driving records of nearly 410,000 adults. The researchers estimated that people taking sleep drugs were as likely to be in a car crash as those driving with a blood alcohol level over the legal limit." LINK

"According to the latest numbers, roughly 9 million Americans4% of U.S. adultsuse prescription sleep aids, or medications that can help with insomnia and other sleep issues." - Google search for "How many Americans take sleeping pills?" (13,128,000 = 4% of total number of adults in USA in 2019)

So total up the number of meth heads, sleeping pill users, drunks, and just exhausted people, plus electronic distractions, dogs, kids, etc., and what percentage of motorists passing you are 100% awake and focused when they pass YOU? Ah, relax! I'm sure you'll be OK on that freeway.
Driving into the sun, with it at the angle it was at, did NOT diminish his ability to see them one damn bit.
Paul Barnard is offline  
Likes For Paul Barnard:
Old 12-25-20, 09:20 PM
  #111  
JoeyBike
20+mph Commuter
 
JoeyBike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New Orleans, LA USA
Posts: 7,013

Bikes: Surly LHT, a folding bike, and a beater.

Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1150 Post(s)
Liked 84 Times in 55 Posts
Originally Posted by Paul Barnard View Post
Driving into the sun, with it at the angle it was at, did NOT diminish his ability to see them one damn bit.
With a sun visor pulled down, the view up the highway would be obscured. Not a big deal for vehicles moving at roughly the same speed but for vehicles basically "standing still" in the roadway there would be seconds, or fractions of a second to react once the cyclists popped into view under the visor. Have you EVER driven directly into the sun? Even as far south as I live the sun is pretty low all day during the winter season. I never pull the visor down below the distant horizon but some people do. How do you KNOW what he did? He may have a light sensitivity. Many people do. If you are psychic I'm sure you'd be spending your time at the racetrack instead of this place.
JoeyBike is offline  
Old 12-26-20, 02:47 PM
  #112  
CB HI
Cycle Year Round
 
CB HI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Honolulu, HI
Posts: 13,643
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1314 Post(s)
Liked 91 Times in 58 Posts
Originally Posted by JoeyBike View Post
With a sun visor pulled down, the view up the highway would be obscured. Not a big deal for vehicles moving at roughly the same speed but for vehicles basically "standing still" in the roadway there would be seconds, or fractions of a second to react once the cyclists popped into view under the visor. Have you EVER driven directly into the sun? Even as far south as I live the sun is pretty low all day during the winter season. I never pull the visor down below the distant horizon but some people do. How do you KNOW what he did? He may have a light sensitivity. Many people do. If you are psychic I'm sure you'd be spending your time at the racetrack instead of this place.
Did you even watch the video of him swaying all over the place on the sobriety test walk? Have you ever driven on a western desert highway with extremely long sightlines?
I live in Hawaii and have traveled east in the morning to work and west in the evening home for decades (so much farther south than you) and the sun is no excuse even here and I do not find it a problem.

The guy drove the same route everyday, if the sun was a real problem on the route, the guy would wear polarized sun galsses already.

So please drop the incessant sun in the eyes excuse for this guy and the other threads you toss it out in.
__________________
Land of the Free, Because of the Brave.
CB HI is offline  
Likes For CB HI:
Old 12-26-20, 04:57 PM
  #113  
CliffordK
Senior Member
 
CliffordK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 26,057
Mentioned: 209 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14479 Post(s)
Liked 2,440 Times in 1,816 Posts
Originally Posted by CB HI View Post
I live in Hawaii and have traveled east in the morning to work and west in the evening home for decades (so much farther south than you) and the sun is no excuse even here and I do not find it a problem.

So please drop the incessant sun in the eyes excuse for this guy and the other threads you toss it out in.
Vegas is quite far south. But, being in the Northern Hemisphere, the issue is being further north, and the sun being at a lower angle to the southeast in the morning and southwest in the evening, and hanging there for a bit longer.

Nonetheless, this accident wasn't caused by a single factor. But, multiple factors working together to make this a very dangerous situation.
.
  • Driver having used SPEED at some time. He claims it was the day before, but he still had high blood levels. Possibly crashing if he hadn't taken any for some time. Or lying about using the day of the accident.
  • Driver didn't sleep well the night before (side effects of using SPEED).
  • Driver was already about 3 hours into his drive.
  • Cyclists riding behind the SAG wagon, apparently in the travel lane (75 MPH)
  • Hazard lights on the vehicle may or may not have been visible (presumably on).
  • Generally monotonous driving in Nevada, but a gentle curve potentially causing a lower than expected line of sight. I'm not sure about other terrain issues.
  • Driver potentially squinting, limited field of view for multiple reasons including drugs and sun.
  • It is even possible the wind that was impacting the cyclists was also impacting the truck, making the drive even more fatiguing.
.
The crash was caused by a combination of factors. Take out a few of the contributing factors, and the crash would not have happened.

If the bikes had been on the shoulder, and not behind the SAG, the truck would likely have flown by at 75+ MPH, and there wouldn't have been a crash. Of course, he might have eventually found the only tree in Nevada to crash into. The guy clearly shouldn't have been on the road in that condition.

I think the driver was suffering from a combination of Shock and Drugs at the time of the interview/walk. 9 steps on a line, heel to toe with hands at side can induce some shakiness by the nature of the test, although the guy's balance was pretty bad.
CliffordK is offline  
Likes For CliffordK:
Old 12-27-20, 09:29 PM
  #114  
JoeyBike
20+mph Commuter
 
JoeyBike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New Orleans, LA USA
Posts: 7,013

Bikes: Surly LHT, a folding bike, and a beater.

Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1150 Post(s)
Liked 84 Times in 55 Posts
Originally Posted by CB HI View Post
So please drop the incessant sun in the eyes excuse for this guy and the other threads you toss it out in.
Denial does not change reality.

"As we begin to head into our snowy season here in New England bad weather is sure to cause more car accidents. But studies show, sunny days can be even more hazardous. One recent study has shown that serious car accidents increase by 16% when it's very sunny and glare is present. Another study has shown that as many as 9000 accidents relating to sun glare occur each year! That’s more than caused by icy roads." LINK

You are free to keep cycling into the sun on busy roads of course. Your denial has no bearing on your results. So many people are living in alternate realities these days.
JoeyBike is offline  
Old 12-27-20, 10:35 PM
  #115  
CB HI
Cycle Year Round
 
CB HI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Honolulu, HI
Posts: 13,643
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1314 Post(s)
Liked 91 Times in 58 Posts
Originally Posted by JoeyBike View Post
Denial does not change reality.

"As we begin to head into our snowy season here in New England bad weather is sure to cause more car accidents. But studies show, sunny days can be even more hazardous. One recent study has shown that serious car accidents increase by 16% when it's very sunny and glare is present. Another study has shown that as many as 9000 accidents relating to sun glare occur each year! That’s more than caused by icy roads." LINK

You are free to keep cycling into the sun on busy roads of course. Your denial has no bearing on your results. So many people are living in alternate realities these days.
Odd that you did not include the title of the article:

Being Blinded By The Sun While Driving Is Not A Good Defense To A Car Accident

Spada Law Group
__________________
Land of the Free, Because of the Brave.
CB HI is offline  
Likes For CB HI:
Old 12-28-20, 11:41 PM
  #116  
JoeyBike
20+mph Commuter
 
JoeyBike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New Orleans, LA USA
Posts: 7,013

Bikes: Surly LHT, a folding bike, and a beater.

Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1150 Post(s)
Liked 84 Times in 55 Posts
Originally Posted by CB HI View Post
Odd that you did not include the title of the article:

Being Blinded By The Sun While Driving Is Not A Good Defense To A Car Accident

Spada Law Group
Dead cyclists don't care who gets the blame. Perhaps a few living cyclists will consider their actions more carefully knowing that the sun is a significant factor. Your car tires breaking free on icy or wet roads is no excuse for causing an accident either.

I try to stack the odds in my favor while playing on the highway. Cycling into the sun adds risk. Read more than the header and learn.

Last edited by JoeyBike; 12-28-20 at 11:45 PM.
JoeyBike is offline  
Old 12-29-20, 12:38 AM
  #117  
CB HI
Cycle Year Round
 
CB HI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Honolulu, HI
Posts: 13,643
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1314 Post(s)
Liked 91 Times in 58 Posts
Originally Posted by JoeyBike View Post
Dead cyclists don't care who gets the blame. Perhaps a few living cyclists will consider their actions more carefully knowing that the sun is a significant factor. Your car tires breaking free on icy or wet roads is no excuse for causing an accident either.

I try to stack the odds in my favor while playing on the highway. Cycling into the sun adds risk. Read more than the header and learn.
From other post after your days of splitting lanes and running red lights to the extreme, to your new fearful epiphany seems to stack the odds in your favor by only riding in the park. Sometimes the sky falls just as hard in the park as it does on the highway.
You must not drive either because the odds are not stacked in your favor with 30,000 deaths a year. And really; extreme exaggeration for more fear mongering from you "sun is a significant factor".
__________________
Land of the Free, Because of the Brave.
CB HI is offline  
Likes For CB HI:
Old 12-29-20, 09:15 AM
  #118  
Digger Goreman
Quidam Bike Super Hero
 
Digger Goreman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Stone Mountain, GA (Metro Atlanta, East)
Posts: 967

Bikes: 1995 Trek 800 Sport, aka, "Frankentrek"/"Camel-Trek"

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 272 Post(s)
Liked 306 Times in 212 Posts
No excuse for hitting anything from behind... period.

Only the long promoted and practiced entitlement of the motored paradigm demands otherwise.

Until lives are treated equally, convienence dispelled as the illusion it is, and dollars subordinated to living harmoniously, will these selfish-driven killings cease....
Digger Goreman is offline  
Old 12-29-20, 09:16 AM
  #119  
rydabent
Senior Member
 
rydabent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Lincoln Ne
Posts: 9,094

Bikes: RANS Stratus TerraTrike Tour II

Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2454 Post(s)
Liked 732 Times in 433 Posts
Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
As far as Meth (SPEED). A lot depends on the dose and usage. In some cases it can speed up reaction times, and help as a cognitive enhancer.

But, using it to prevent drowsiness may have other impacts including perhaps attention deficits.

I wonder if the impact could be similar to making poor choices with sleep deprivation, even if one is moderately alert.

I'm not sure if one can say SPEED was the only cause of the accident, but it may have been one of several factors that increased the risk.
IMO anyone involved in an accident that has alcohol or any illegal drug in their blood should have their sentence DOUBLED!!!!!
rydabent is offline  
Likes For rydabent:
Old 12-29-20, 09:22 AM
  #120  
JoeyBike
20+mph Commuter
 
JoeyBike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New Orleans, LA USA
Posts: 7,013

Bikes: Surly LHT, a folding bike, and a beater.

Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1150 Post(s)
Liked 84 Times in 55 Posts
Originally Posted by Digger Goreman View Post
No excuse for hitting anything from behind... period.

Only the long promoted and practiced entitlement of the motored paradigm demands otherwise.

Until lives are treated equally, convienence dispelled as the illusion it is, and dollars subordinated to living harmoniously, will these selfish-driven killings cease....
We live in an imperfect world. Humans are far from perfect by nature, then add drugs and distractions and we are assured of accidents of all kinds. This is the world we live in but we still have choices about how, when, and where we recreate. Cyclists are going to continue getting steam-rolled from behind on high speed roads so long as humans are controlling the vehicles. You can deny, wish it were different, or control the only thing you can: YOUR behavior.

Last edited by JoeyBike; 12-29-20 at 11:04 AM.
JoeyBike is offline  
Old 12-29-20, 09:31 AM
  #121  
rydabent
Senior Member
 
rydabent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Lincoln Ne
Posts: 9,094

Bikes: RANS Stratus TerraTrike Tour II

Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2454 Post(s)
Liked 732 Times in 433 Posts
Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
As far as Meth (SPEED). A lot depends on the dose and usage. In some cases it can speed up reaction times, and help as a cognitive enhancer.

But, using it to prevent drowsiness may have other impacts including perhaps attention deficits.

I wonder if the impact could be similar to making poor choices with sleep deprivation, even if one is moderately alert.

I'm not sure if one can say SPEED was the only cause of the accident, but it may have been one of several factors that increased the risk.
IMO anyone involved in an accident that has alcohol or any illegal drug in their blood should have their sentence DOUBLED!!!!!
rydabent is offline  
Old 12-29-20, 09:37 AM
  #122  
JoeyBike
20+mph Commuter
 
JoeyBike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New Orleans, LA USA
Posts: 7,013

Bikes: Surly LHT, a folding bike, and a beater.

Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1150 Post(s)
Liked 84 Times in 55 Posts
Originally Posted by CB HI View Post
From other post after your days of splitting lanes and running red lights to the extreme, to your new fearful epiphany seems to stack the odds in your favor by only riding in the park. Sometimes the sky falls just as hard in the park as it does on the highway.
You must not drive either because the odds are not stacked in your favor with 30,000 deaths a year. And really; extreme exaggeration for more fear mongering from you "sun is a significant factor".
Is this Advocacy and Safety, or Ignore and Deny?

I have cycled across the USofA five times on a touring bike completely self contained. Since I am an early riser, I try to start my trips in the East and ride to the West. With my back to the sun I am easier to SEE, and the sun isn't aggravating me right in my face. The most miserable, dangerous trip I ever did was from New Orleans to the Georgia coast. I learned to get a later start pretty quickly AND wait until after rush hour near cities. If someone likes to lay in the tent until mid-day, perhaps they should consider touring West to East instead.

^^This is what I am talking about. Can anyone deny that being lit up by a sun to my back is as dangerous as having the sun in every motorist's sleepy eyes roaring up behind me? There are lots of things cyclists can do to tilt the field in their favor. But like most people operating vehicles they push off without concern and leave their safety in God's hands. I'm not here to tell anyone to stop cycling, just be smart about it and aware that vision is not a perfect sense. You can wear fifty blinkies and all the neon you want to, but NOT BEING THERE, in that risky situation, is the most foolproof method of not getting hozed from behind.

Advocacy and SAFETY.
JoeyBike is offline  
Old 12-29-20, 09:54 AM
  #123  
JoeyBike
20+mph Commuter
 
JoeyBike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New Orleans, LA USA
Posts: 7,013

Bikes: Surly LHT, a folding bike, and a beater.

Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1150 Post(s)
Liked 84 Times in 55 Posts
Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
IMO anyone involved in an accident that has alcohol or any illegal drug in their blood should have their sentence DOUBLED!!!!!
How about the legal drugs? So how many motorists passing you on the highway are free from ANY substance that is proven to impair driving ability? I bet the percentage of "squeaky clean" motorists is pretty small.

"It’s not just prescription medications, but over-the-counter products as well...you can be charged with a DUI if caught driving hazardously while taking prescription or OTC meds, even if your doctor wrote you that prescription."

1. Pain relievers
2. Antihistamines
3. Antidepressants
4. Antihypertensives
5. Antianxiety agents and muscle relaxants
6. Stimulants


Yes, even caffeine.

SOURCE

The world is imperfect. Enter at your own risk. Or take actions that give you an advantage.
JoeyBike is offline  
Old 12-29-20, 10:15 AM
  #124  
JoeyBike
20+mph Commuter
 
JoeyBike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New Orleans, LA USA
Posts: 7,013

Bikes: Surly LHT, a folding bike, and a beater.

Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1150 Post(s)
Liked 84 Times in 55 Posts
Originally Posted by CB HI View Post
So please drop the incessant sun in the eyes excuse for this guy and the other threads you toss it out in.
So how many times will it take. How many cyclists will have to bet blown up from behind riding into a blinding sun before YOU make the connection. I know you aren't stupid. This is some serious denial going on here. Looking into the sun is uncomfortable at minimum, causing motorists to squint, drop the sun visor, accentuate the filth on a windshield, or just avert their eyes elsewhere. I mean, this is the ONE thing cyclists can do (or not do) that actually makes a difference in highway safety. To not even acknowledge a blinding sun can be an additional factor in causing an auto accident is just......
JoeyBike is offline  
Old 12-29-20, 02:26 PM
  #125  
CliffordK
Senior Member
 
CliffordK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 26,057
Mentioned: 209 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14479 Post(s)
Liked 2,440 Times in 1,816 Posts
It may be difficult to organize a century ride, always in optimal riding conditions. But it is something that can be considered.

In this case, the sun would have already been getting better by mid-morning when the accident happened, although perhaps shifting more from east to south.

I probably wouldn't have worried about the sun by 9:00 AM, although I was driving up in Washington a few days ago, and found myself shifting the visor around at about 10:30.

While recreational riders can choose their routes, commuters have other demands on the times and routes they take. And, aren't blessed with safety vehicles.
CliffordK is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.