elcruxio

I'll start off by stating that getting parts for a bike build has been a veritable nightmare. And I'm still not sure if the horror is over because not all of my orders have in fact shipped. There's still a possibility that I won't actually get the Sora brifters I ordered. If that happens I'm going to be in a real pickle.

This topic doesn't have a functional reason to exist. It's just conversation really. Read it if you like, don't if you don't.

Anyways summer is nearing fast and with it our planned summer touring trip so I needed to get a move on for my new Disc Trucker. I would have bought the built up bike, but none were available in my size so I chose instead to buy a frame and build it up myself. As luck would have it my build will resemble the built up model quite closely. Though the few extras I've added are in my opinion quite essential (spoiler, it's the wheels that are great)

For gearing and shifting I chose the Sora group with a deore long cage rear mech to support a 11-36 cassette. Sadly 11-36 cassettes are hard to find so I bought a 11-32 for now. With a 22-32-44 crankset that should give me more than low enough gearing for local hills even with a kiddie trailer. Would have loved to buy the Deore FC-T6010 crankset but sadly that only comes with 26-36-48 chainrings and I though that to be too high for me. I ended up with a Shimano FC-T551 which should be almost as good. Sora is 9 speed. Would have liked 11 speed but there are advantages to 9-speed. Firstly it's the last Shimano generation to use the same cable pulls across all groupsets. With 9-speed you can mix and match as much as you like (in shifting, not in braking). Secondly there aren't 3/11speed STI-levers. There were 3/10 but then one would be forced into road cable pull ratios.

I chose brifters because bar ends are too slow when riding with a trailer. Uphills come up much faster so shifting needs to be on point or you're walking up.

What baffled me though was that apparently Shimano nowadays makes a touring triple crankset which costs almost 300 euros.

Brakes are spyres, because that's apparently the only mechanical disc brake that comes in flat mount. But the flat mount model is marginally better sealed than the post mount model so that's nice. Also got some EBC gold pads and EBC rotors to go with the spyres. I'm not a huge fan of the original spyre pads. 160mm rotors front and back is a bit worrisome for loaded touring with a kiddie trailer but that's flat mount for you. I'm seriously considering on trying to source / make some extra thick rotors at some point. For added heat capacity you know. I've come to realize that 160mm is more that adequate in terms of braking power even when loaded. Well, for road that is. Would have loved hydraulic brakes but hydro's aren't road side serviceable and also there aren't hydro triple brifters.

Handlebar is the Salsa Cowchipper Wide at 50cm. I considered this for a long time and I decided to give this one a try. A narrow road position is great for aerodynamics and relative comfort but I'm not 100 % convinced that a shoulder wide hand position is the most ergonomic or comfortable. For me a shoulder wide position has always rounded the shoulder blades forward somewhat which may have caused issues down the line. The wide cowchipper should remedy this in two ways. First it's a bit wider than the 45cm bars I typically use so that should open up the chest a bit. Also the cowchipper angles the brake levers inward and that in turn forces the elbows out a little from the typical elbows directly down road position. Being naturally muscular my lats get in the way of getting my elbows all the way down so that may also have caused issues before. All kinds of unnecessary tension is bad for back to back long days of riding. Also bad for the back...

Saddle is of course a Selle SMP, though this time I decided to go for a bit more padding and instead of the Dynamic I got the Drakon. This decision may bite me up the bum (ehe) but we'll see.

Wheels. This is where we get to the good stuff.
The wheels on the builtkit Disc Trucker aren't bad. The hubs are Novatec which I quite like. Alex Adventurer 2's are fine as rims I suppose. I've never seen any in the wild so I cannot say. Spokes are non butted I suppose as they tend to be in these kinds of builds.

For rims I went with something a bit different. Instead of always getting DT Swiss rims I actually got the Ryde Andra 321. A bit heavy at 639 grams per rim (DT Swiss TK 540 is 550 grams or so) BUT they also allow for 1400N of spoke tension whereas even the heaviest of duty DT Swiss rims only allow for 1200N. That is i big difference when trying to get the NDS tension to acceptable levels.
I've kept away from Ryde rims because I always though that all their touring rims are like the Andra 40 which is 900 grams per rim. But the 321 is really quite acceptable if it really is as sturdy as people say it is.
For reference the Andra 321 is kinda like the brother of the Andra 30. The differences are that the 321 is disc specific so it's a bit rounded on the sides and it's a bit wider.
For a long time I drooled over the DT Swiss HX rims, because they would have had tubeless compatability etc. But those are expensive and they require the special Squorx nipples, making road side repairs difficult. It was time to give Ryde a chance because the Andra 321's cost like 25 euros each whereas the DT Swiss HX series are 100 euros each...
Spokes are of course DT Swiss Alpine III. Really why would anyone use anything else?

Hubs. I did something different this time as well. Instead of always getting Hope hubs, this time for the rear hub I got the DT Swiss 350 Hybrid. It's a beefed up 350 with a 24 POE ratchet. Bearings are the usual DT Swiss 6902 which are small, but according to my calculations should be more than strong enough for touring. For reference the legendary 540 tandem hub used even smaller bearings than 6902. Of course it's not all in the size of the bearing but still. Front hub is a Novatec XD641SB which is the only 12mm thru axle front hub I could find. Really wanted a Hope Pro 4 but alas none were available. The Novatec has pretty massive bearings (nice for a front hub because that thing is taking the weight of the whole bike in brakings) but the hub shell itself is of a somewhat light construction. I would have preferred solid hub flanges but these are holed for presumably weight savings. Time will tell how well it holds up.

For tires I got Schwalbe Marathon Mondials. Maybe I'm turning into a weight weenie but the prospect of hauling up almost 1kg of extra tire in the shape of marathon plusses just wasn't appealing to me anymore. Then again I also didn't want a flimsy tire.

Maybe the weirdest thing I did with this build was to get a non setback seatpost. My old LHT originally had 25mm setback post. It gradually went down to 19mm, then 15mm, then 13mm and now with the 13mm post the saddle is pushed forward a bit. Riding my Ice Cream truck with it's much steeper seat tube angle has been a bit of a revelation for me. Now even the ICT has a non setback seatpost. Apparently being tall does not automatically mean lots of setback. Not even long legs mean that. What really dictates setback seems to be torso length in relation to leg length. It's a bit embarrassing really because when i first started cycling more than a decade ago I didn't have saddle issues. Then it got more serious, my riding position got more aggressive and I got a new sporty saddle. All was still fine until I started checking out the specs of pro peloton riders and started setting my seat height according to calculations and what I should have been capable of. Too high a seat, too long a reach and it's been problems ever since. Not serious enough to really warrant a closer look or a fitting but still bad enough that I've never done a 200km ride even though I've wanted to for years now. Maybe this summer will be the one.

elcruxio

Soon the bike will be completely built but I have to say, this has been the suckiest bike build I've ever done.

firstly, shame on Shimano! The torque values on their crankarms are off by a massive margin. I noticed this when threads in the crankarm got stripped just as I was reaching 12nm.

I did some research and for an M6 8.8 grade steel bolt the highest recommended torque is 12nm. The aluminum shimano crankarms have a torque requirement of 12-14nm. Apparently one should always spec the torque for the weaker material. I found that for aluminum in such instances the maximun recommended torque is 9nm IF the threads are helicoiled. Less if they aren't.

So I had to helicoil both crankarm attachment hole threads and add some strong loctite to make them last. Bothersome.

Secondly shame on Ryde! Their ERD numbers are way off the mark. It's not like ERD isn't a standard measurement. If you can't give an accurate ERD, don't bother giving one at all. That's 36 spokes wasted.
From now on I'm buying DT Swiss.

And how much was the ERD off? FOUR FRICKING MILLIMETERS! For those unfamiliar with wheelbuilding, a difference of 4mm means the wheel has absolutely no chance of getting built with the spokes procured with the false ERD. None. So now the wheelbuild is delayed by as much as two weeks due to easter.

There were other issues as well.

This has certainly been a learning experience. Never trust the manufacturer on anything. I already knew SRAM disc brake centering guides were wrong but to think Shimano would give wrong torque specs is certainly surprising. The Ryde ERD thing was annoying more than surprising. But with that in mind I might scrap the rims out of spite and replace with dt swiss sometime in the future.

Tourist in MSN

ERD, about a decade ago I was building up a set of wheels, the ERD for the rim was different on the manufacturers website than the number listed on the rim. I contacted the rim manufacturer (at that time Salsa made rims) to get the correct ERD. I was happy that I double checked sources.

If I am buying spokes for a wheel build as individual spokes, I always buy two extra per wheel for spares, I mention that because you said you had 36 spokes. I would have had 38 spokes of the wrong length. You got lucky in one way, if it was me I would have bought the spokes for both wheels on one order.

elcruxio

funny thing is, the spokes that were meant for the front wheel actually were the correct length for the rear wheel. I forgot mention that but I did get lucky

L134 

In his book Professional Guide to Wheelbuilding, Roger Musson recommends always measuring the ERD oneself and not to rely on published ERD from any source. It is an excellent, inexpensive book one can purchase in pdf online for immediate access. Sometimes I take that advice and wait to measure rims before ordering spokes and sometimes I take a chance and order both at the same time (to save time and shipping - hopefully).

Tourist in MSN

I used to buy my spokes at a local bike shop, they measured my ERD on the rim I brought in, measured the hub, did the calculations and used their spoke thread cutting machine to cut the spokes for me. That shop moved out of town about a decade ago. Since then I have had to do that all myself.

I now have what I need to measure ERD, but I think I built about 10 wheels before I had the ability to measure it myself, thus was relying on internet or manufacturer data for ERD, and when possible tried to find the ERD from at least two sources. As I noted in a previous post, in one case the manufacturer had two different ERD values for the same rim.

I would double check things if I could but I can understand why one would order stuff as soon as they found it available considering the shortage of bike parts these days.

My last wheel build (within the past month), the spokes, nipples, rim, and hub were all in the same order with a flat 20 Euro shipping charge. I would have been an idiot to spend a second shipping charge in case the 12.58 Euro order for spokes resulted in the wrong length.

That said, it would make sense for a mechanic in a shop that has a well stocked inventory of spokes to measure ERD on every rim.

L134 

Except that the OP did discover that can be a false economy in dollars and time. Just saying - it is a real risk. I get it though, my current build I did the same as you but I am building with a Velocity rim I have used before and have found Velocity's published ERD's to be within a mm or two, a difference I attribute to my imprecise measuring skills.

Tourist in MSN

The OP had a problem with Ryde rims. But the two Ryde rims that I built into wheels, I never measured them but the spokes I bought fit perfectly so I am assuming that those rims were spot on.

elcruxio

On a different note,

I kept wondering what kind of black magic Surly was doing to get their component mix to work on the built bike. It has a Sora front derailleur and an Alivio crankset. So a FD for 45mm chainline and a 50mm chainline crankset. The build kit didn't have any mentions about additional FD extenders etc.

Turns out that they messed with the bottom bracket and crank alignment. They use a tiagra hollowtech bottom bracket and add two 2.5mm spacers on the non drive side. To me it seems this would shift the crankset off center by 5mm and that seems like a lot.

I decided to go a different route since I kinda want a centered crankset and the chainrings I'm using are a bit small for a Sora FD cage. I have a Deore FD which fits the 44-32-22 chainrings and is made for the 50mm chainline my crankset has. Only problem is that I have Sora shifters and the fact that MTB and road front derailleurs don't work with one anothers shifter. I could modify the FD but that'd require drilling and some complex math so no.

Enter Jtec engineering travelmate 7 which allows one to use an MTB front derailleur with a road shifter. It's a pulley system like the problem solvers travel agent but for shifters instead of brakes.

This build is becoming such a hassle. Makes me want to start a component manufacturing company that makes purely touring stuff.

George

I been riding a Drakon for a few years now and I really like it. I hope it works out for you.

Tourist in MSN

The bikes that I have built up from parts all used friction for front shifter. I am not saying it is better that way, but it worked for me.

The only bikes I have with an indexed front derailleur came from the factory as complete bikes.

elcruxio

There was a long and hard thought process behind going with STI's rather than barends or even down tube shifters.
First point of contention was the fact that I don't like bar ends or downtube shifters. I've had them before and still do in one bike but for me they are an utilitarian option rather than a nice option.

But the second is the difficulties friction shifters pose with a trailer. In uphills the trailer is like an anchor as in it doesn't really give any inertia at all and stops you in your tracks if you're in the wrong gear. It also quite effectively prevents pedal bursts one would usually use when shifting front gears under load (to gain a moment of no loading so the chain can drop). I learned that the hard way and bent a derailleur cage. The other thing I learned is that you do not want to stop in a steep uphill section in the wrong gear with a trailer. Downshifting a bike while trying to stop the bike and trailer from rolling down the hill is simply something I never want to do again.
So with friction shifters one needs to be quite aware of the contours of the land in order to be able to shift in time. Certainly not impossible, perhaps not even hard, but I felt it would be better for me, chain, chainrings and the front derailleur if I had shifting ability always at my fingertips rather than at the bar end or at the down tube. In case I'm not always as aware of my surroundings as I perhaps should be.

The third point of why I didn't go with barends was the fact that at the point I was doing purchases it seemed that the whole EU-area was out of any kind of friction shifter. Coronavirus supply issues has especially done a number on niche products like barends.

elcruxio

Well it is finally done. I do feel wide drop bars are somewhat underrated. While not very aerodynamic these 50cm cowchippers are exceedingly comfortable. I was quite surprised.

The flat mount brakes are actually a pretty nifty system. They keep the brake calipers away from everything so there's absolutely no interference with racks or fenders. Was quite pleased that I didn't have to bend any fender stays or use massive spacer stacks for the racks. Everything just fell into place really nicely.

Strangely the DT Swiss rear hub makes no noise whatsoever. I was under the impression that DT hubs were considered noisy. Probably pretty heavily greased from the factory

As a final point. Thru axles really are the way to go. I can't imagine why it took so long for bicycles to adopt them. After having taken the wheels off and putting them back on again multiple times while the bike was hanging in the stand and getting the wheels perfectly in place every time, I really don't want to mess with quick releases again. The front 12mm front axle was a bit of a bother, but once the covid induced supply issues get resolved I doubt such a thing will be an issue.

Tourist in MSN

Interesting colors. I think that is a Tubus rack, do not think I have ever seen a white one before.

Very nice job on the fender installation, everything looks evenly spaced.

Most of my racks are black, I use fingernail polish for touchup paint on racks. Built in brush, extremely fast to touch up wear spots when I notice them, maybe you can find white fingernail polish?

When I built up my Lynskey four years ago I wanted to use 36 spokes front and rear, but the front hub I wanted was out of stock everywhere in 36, found one on sale for 32 spoke. Decades ago some European utility bikes had a lot more spokes on the rear than the front. I decided that the front wheel carries a lot less weight than the rear, so I used 32 on front, 36 on back. Looks like you were thinking the same thing.

I am sure you will like that bike.

LynxTheWizard

I wouldn't fret about the sitting position too much. see what's suggested for you and if it fits, that's good, if not - adjust it to whatever you like and forget about it. In the end it is you who cycles.

imi

Looks fantastic! Love the colors! 😊