burnthesheep

Fine, no specific people then.

I'm actually really glad something works for people. That's great! Success is good. How could anyone be upset at that kind of accomplishment?

My "self appointed expert comments" come from genuine concern about what happens if based on age, lifestyle, injury, or other unforeseen circumstance a person can't ride 10 hours a week? Or run 50 miles a week. That's why I bring it up.

The "self appointed expert" comment is a jab because people don't like being challenged about how they do things. The topic is "observations". It is not "success stories". That implies some conversation and debate. I made an observation, apparently that isn't allowed. I get challenged all the time in other topics about things I post up that I've done or experienced. And sometimes I go "aha". Makes me think, even if I don't change my mind.

If all we want is success stories and praise, please re-title the topic and re-calibrate the conversation and we won't contribute any longer.

I notice on Bikeforums there's a tendency to "soften" topics to the point nobody can ever possibly be offended even if there was never any intention to offend. We can't debate for the sake of not offending those that can't handle it.

When folks want to debate, it's not that they "take their ball and go home" it's that the folks in the topic "kick the ball over the fence". "You can't play here".

Frankly on this topic, more than once in the past, myself and others have had their balls kicked over the fence. So I'm going to go get it for the last time.

Have fun with the topic. Please re-name it "weight loss success stories" so others who aren't aware won't show up and post opinions that you don't agree with and don't want to talk about.

DaveLeeNC

FWIW, I have occasionally posted into threads where the discussion moved to "you cannot control an uncontrolled weight problem with exercise" because that is not the case for me personally. My objection has always been the statement 'it does not work'. In my mind the better statement would be "if you want to do it this way then this is what it will take". The average Joe/Jane will probably look at that and think "guess I need to find another path". But for those of us inclined in that direction...

The concept of 'even if it works for you it is a bad idea' is new in my experience.

dave

ps. The right to freely state an opinion is not the right to be free from criticism of that opinion.

hubcyclist

Wading into the whole hours of training stuff and weight. I kind of have to concur about needing 10hrs a week to keep my weight in check, at least in a situation where I'm not watching calories and just eating with reckless abandon because I have to stay fueled for the next workout. I ride 6 days a week and at the moment doing exclusively sweet spot intervals with trainerroad so my rides are all involving 1000-1500kj of work. I'm about 5-8lbs over my "ideal" weight (155lbs) so I'm trying to not be so cavalier about my eating without sacrificing the fuel for my workouts, but it's tough. I'd probably be more successful if I more closely tracked my eating, but that's a lot of thinking that I'm unwilling to do at the moment lol

But I know sheep and I are in agreement that a lot of people probably don't ride hard enough and assume they burn more calories than they do and then are surprised why they aren't losing weight or even gaining weight. For example, I went on a 2hr bike ride with my 9y/o, we averaged about 11mph, and that was about 300calories. I think a lot of people would think 2hrs of activity would result in a higher caloric expenditure (aside: it would be super interesting to give people power meters and compare their gut feeling on calories burned vs the actual reading from the power meter). So whenever people talk about wanting to do cycling for fitness, I always recommend actual training, because that's the only way to really start to increase the caloric burn in less time, otherwise folks have to put in a lot of riding to help create that deficit. What I accomplished in 90mins (nearly 1200 calories) would take someone going at 11mph in the neighborhood of 8hrs to do. So I think there is truth to the assertion that a lot of people don't ride with enough intensity

livedarklions

You did not just "make an observation", you started by saying you disagreed with us about or own fitness program, you called what we were doing "ludicrous", patronized the hell out of us ("I don't know what to say for you." Really?), and made a whole bunch of insinuations about us needing to talk to doctors and nutritionists, just assuming we hadn't done so already.

The other person you have been "debating" (seriously, who asked you?) is 70 years old and maintaining that. In that light, your "concern for him" seems rather silly at best. Like everyone, his program will work for him as long as it works for him. There's nothing unique about having to adapt a program because of changing circumstances, that's part of life. In my case, I have maintained a massive weight loss over several years without the use of surgery, something that doctors literally do double-takes at when they see my medical records (I have actually witnessed this). So yes, since I am doing something almost no one succeeds at (people can lose the weight, but generally put it back on), you might have some idea why I get so annoyed when someone who has never done that tells me I should be doing it their way.

Neither of us was prescribing, only describing why in our cases, the notion that exercise plays a small role in weight control/loss doesn't apply. I've had people ask me my advice on weight loss and control, and I make clear to them that all I can do is describe what works for me, and odds are that it won't work for them. On those terms, when you disagree with me, you are implicitly attempting to prescribe for me. I see no reason I should be expected to suffer such foolishness gladly.

As to the "self-appointed expert" thing being a jab, the shoe fits, dude.

livedarklions

I have extremely bad ankles and feet, so running isn't an option for me, but there's no question I can burn calories far more efficiently in the gym then I can do on a bike. The advantage of the bike for me, though, is that it's fun so I ride much longer than I would work out. No question I weigh a few pounds less in the summer when I ride than in the winter when I go to the gym.

I don't "train", per se. I just ride long distances solo, going very fast for long stretches. I'm pretty sure it would drive 99% of people nuts.

Metieval

I can clip along at a 15-16 mph (17 lb Road bike on GP5000) average all day long while in a 72 hour fast. So yea, it really does come down to intensity. No Idea what power is, heart rate average is 130 - 135 ish.. I don't know on that either haven't had a HR monitor in a couple years.

burnthesheep

Honest question, why is it offensive for somebody to disagree and make a suggestion? Specifically in this topic? So that it stays "on topic". As we really need to clarify that point before this topic can move on. That was my point about BF I just made. Somebody isn't allowed to disagree, provide data, make suggestions. We're just allowed to nod and say "I OBSERVE that you did that".

The patronizing I do about "don't know what to say for you" is because everyone gets offended every time somebody wants to disagree and receives an earful for having an opinion.

How about this then, it is MY observation that for many people 10 hours a week of exercise could present realistic challenges to achieving a target weight. Is that any better? It is MY observation that lots of people work jobs and have families where even to control weight, you can't spend 10 hours on a bike per week. It is MY observation that lots of non-fitness guru non-fitness nut types would deem the training regiment for something like I presented (a half Ironman) of 10 hours per week as "ludicrous". Ludicrous meaning "unreasonable". It's in the dictionary as a use of the word. Based on MY observation it could be considered "unreasonable" or "ludicrous" to spend 10 hours a week when you must also balance work and home. Unreasonable being asking somebody to do something that logically is at odds with what is probably possible.

When you all present your observations, it could guide others on what to do. That's why it matters.

Don't conflate that I use the term ludicrous in the other derogatory form of possibly meaning "foolish". That's you putting the meaning in it you want to portray me as the opinionated turd raining on the "observations" topic.

Don't be pedantic about the topic "observations" to try to make it fit your narrative of how you individually seem to want to guide the topic.

Next, don't assume that folks posting up opinions don't present them from some kind of experience also related to the topic. I started riding to not go on hypertension drugs years back and avoid having to buy new clothes.

So, got it............no opinions allowed......only personal anecdotes.

If that's the case........it should be a one post per person topic, right? Or only update posts about yourself, right? Shouldn't be any other comments, observations, opinions, or debate going on. Looks like the mods can delete about 2/3 of the topic then?

Why's it like this on BF in so many topics? It's this topic. It's anytime the topic of e-bikes or recumbents leaks out of those subforums. It's anytime that anything training related leaks out of that subforum. As soon as they're out, no opinions allowed. No comments allowed. No dissent.

Very specifically this SAME thing happened in the "e-bikes and exercise" topic. Several people kept asking for better evidence and proof of one thing or another, or had a differing opinion than the original topic start..............and out come the tar and feathers.

LAJ

As was mentioned earlier, a true Zone 2 ride, where you burn a good amount, is not an easy thing to do. You pedal throughout, no cheating by coasting, and basically try to keep any Z1 riding under 5% of the total ride. The last hour of a 4-5 hour endurance ride, is not an easy thing. Heart is all good, but using a power meter will let you know you're at that 71% percent area you need to be in. I can do them on a fast, though have never tried after 72 hours. I try to do nothing but a Whey protein drink after.

Metieval

maybe I should get a power meter.

Fasting for me isn't so much for weight as it is for resetting the immune system, lowering insulin resistance. I just brought it up because riding below my fitness level takes very little energy. So to expect heaps of calorie burn while riding in the same zone seems like a crazy notion. Of course my re feeds are a lot of healthy fats. I never ever plan anything either.... I randomly just decide to do a 72 hour fast. on day 2 I am like I'll go for a ride, and hour into the ride I am like oh yea!!!!! maybe I should chill out a bit , because I am fasting.
Good example is yesterday, I had to drop my new van off for a hitch install. I am thinking I'll just ride down to the coffee shop for a sandwich and coffee while waiting. I am rolling into town and remember that I am fasting. Not a bad thing to sit on a bench watching the traffic while waiting outside a cafe. It's mostly a mental game also. My brain says I want food, but mostly I am just bored. It's all about retraining the brain.

livedarklions

Oh, pooor, poor you. So persecuted.

In my first response (#457), I politely disagreed with you and explained why. You then doubled down with the patronizing "I don't know what to say for you", at which point I definitely took offense. Check the tape, you've been extremely rude and dismissive of my opinions since your first sentence, and my opinions have solely concerned what works for me. Sorry if I think my knowledge of what works for me is infinitely greater than yours, but them's the breaks when you start offering unsolicited "you shoulds" disguised as "opinions".

This conversation isn't going forward because I don't have any reason to respect your opinion on what I or anyone else "should" do, and you consider that "tarring and feathering" when that's pointed out to you. You never had any interest in a conversation, you just want uncritical responses to your poorly-informed lecturing.

burnthesheep

Ahem.

livedarklions

Ahem yourself. You win the award for least competent gotcha ever.

Where did I tell anyone what they should do?
I just reported what works for me, and noted that people vary in this regard. There's a lot of scientific literature on that. Feel free to research it yourself.

I'm done talking to you.

wolfchild

A combination of higher and moderate intensity resistance training and fasted low intensity aerobic activity such as cycling or running is the most effective way to loose fat and keep it off. Cycling alone isn't enough, you need to get your whole body moving.

RihanaB

I noticed that I gain weight if I eat more than about 1800 calories a day, even when I work out or do a lot of yard work. During Covid isolation I lost weight and wasnever hungry. I cut out all dairy except for plain greek yogurt, no eggs, no wheat products or products with wheat in it, limited salt, no sugar or similar products and no yeast. (I haven't eaten red meat in over 50 years.) If I really got a sweet craving, I ate pitted dates. Note: initially, I ate eggs, but when I cut them out, I noticed some chronic swelling went down. Also I do some daily exercises suggested by careforyourbodynow

Everyone is different. I'm an all or nothing person, so it was just easier to say "no more of this" item than to trigger a craving.

KJ43

Not true at all.

I've played with my weight over the years and lost 40 lbs and recently 60 lbs at different times. When doing heavy weight lifting I've brought my weight up too on purpose, but now that I'm primarily cycling I'm keeping myself at a lower body weight. All eating reasonably and making sure that I get plenty of carbs to fuel my endurance work.

For most people that want to lose weight and move towards maintaining a healthy and functional body I recommend two steps to start:

• Eat like an adult. Reasonable portions, eat vegetables, fruit, reduce overly processed foods and plenty of fresh water.
• Pay attention to thermodynamics. Balance energy in versus energy out.

There are other things that can be done to fine tune and diet can be a real rabbit hole if you really want to go down it,, but the above is all I've used successfully. I eat pretty much what I want and that includes plenty of carbs to fuel the longer distance rides that can really burn the calories.

Not2worried

I agree with this greatly

I have lost just over 40 lbs, and it was pretty much lower calories intake. Still need to get a well rounded diet of food. But calories not being burnt up just gets stored.