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How screwed up the bike shop business has become,

Old 06-25-21, 09:57 AM
  #176  
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Originally Posted by CheGiantForLife View Post
Exercise has very little effect on obesity.
Wait what?

If you use up more calories than you consume, you can lose weight. Exercise is a way to use up more calories than you consume.
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Old 06-25-21, 09:59 AM
  #177  
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Originally Posted by Happy Feet View Post
We are straying a bit from bike shops but that study seems to say a couple of things.

a. No change in diet
b. absent that, exercise was needed to reduce weight.
c. and that the caloric imbalance was small in the controls used.
Speculating here, but it seems sensible to me that it's typical for an obese person to have only a small (positive) caloric imbalance.

If their caloric imbalance were great, they would gain weight quickly, and that doesn't seem common. Obese people seem to gain weight gradually (as the study found with the control group).
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Old 06-25-21, 10:57 AM
  #178  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
Wait what?

If you use up more calories than you consume, you can lose weight. Exercise is a way to use up more calories than you consume.
But most people who are exercising more are consuming more calories to replace what they've used (our body wants us to do that), so many studies have showing that increases in exercise are not tied to weight loss unless caloric intake is strictly monitored/restricted.
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Old 06-25-21, 11:06 AM
  #179  
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Originally Posted by himespau View Post
But most people who are exercising more are consuming more calories to replace what they've used (our body wants us to do that), so many studies have showing that increases in exercise are not tied to weight loss unless caloric intake is strictly monitored/restricted.
Well yeah, if caloric intake increases at the same pace, then you arent using up more calories than you consume.

This is just a really odd discussion to me because increased exercise can clearly lead to weight loss. If Che's point was that exercise alone wont lead to weight loss and instead needs to be combined with a diet that restricts calories to below what is burned in a day, then sure that could be accurate since someone eating as many calories as they burn wont create a caloric deficiency. But Che didnt say that. Che just said exercise has little effect on obesity.
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Old 06-25-21, 11:38 AM
  #180  
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Yes, it's a little more complex than that. Anyone who does endurance sport, for example, sees that exercise reduces weight over time.

However, people who ride a bike moderately, several times a week as a weightloss plan would be well served to look at diet as well. One will probably not get much in the way of results until that aspect is in order.

I would always encourage exercise, and an active lifestyle, because of fitness and orher positives such as mental outlook, capacity to withstand illness etc...
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Old 06-25-21, 11:42 AM
  #181  
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Originally Posted by terrymorse View Post
Speculating here, but it seems sensible to me that it's typical for an obese person to have only a small (positive) caloric imbalance.

If their caloric imbalance were great, they would gain weight quickly, and that doesn't seem common. Obese people seem to gain weight gradually (as the study found with the control group).

Say what?
a simple look at NA culture shows many people eating more for one meal than their daily total requirement. To suggest most obese people eat close to calorie neutral is to have been absent for the last 20 years of our obesity epidemic.

Weight gain isn't a linear correlation. A lot goes into it beyond diet and exercise. There are genetics and metabolic differences too.
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Old 06-25-21, 12:10 PM
  #182  
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Originally Posted by Happy Feet View Post
Say what?
a simple look at NA culture shows many people eating more for one meal than their daily total requirement.
If large numbers of people were truly eating that way, that would be a calorie overload of say 2000 calories per day, and they would be gaining about 3 pounds per week.

I'm very skeptical of that possibility.

The reality appears to be a gradual weight gain, which implies a much smaller daily calorie overload.
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Old 06-25-21, 01:23 PM
  #183  
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You don't really have to guess at this stuff.
This shows average intake over 52 years and recommended intake by age group (starts at :16 of the embedded video).
The average moderately active male requires 2600 calories per day but now consumes 3600 calories.
Consider how much exercise one needs to do to burn that excess 1000 calories per day.
According to a Harvard study it's about 90 minutes of moderate riding.

https://www.businessinsider.com/amer...science-2017-6

https://www.healthline.com/health/ho...g#slow-vs-fast

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Old 06-25-21, 05:27 PM
  #184  
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Originally Posted by Happy Feet View Post
You don't really have to guess at this stuff.
This shows average intake over 52 years and recommended intake by age group (starts at :16 of the embedded video).
The average moderately active male requires 2600 calories per day but now consumes 3600 calories.
Consider how much exercise one needs to do to burn that excess 1000 calories per day.
According to a Harvard study it's about 90 minutes of moderate riding.

https://www.businessinsider.com/amer...science-2017-6

https://www.healthline.com/health/ho...g#slow-vs-fast
Yeah, I saw that report. They're still guessing at consumption levels.

Edit: It's worse than a guess, they don't even hazard a guess at food consumption. The report is for food production per capita, not food consumption per capita.

I've seen other reports, too. The estimates are all over the place.

1000 excess calories per day does not pass the male bovine excrement test.
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Old 06-25-21, 08:02 PM
  #185  
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We can all speculate and quote study after study, but I've either been playing basketball or riding MTB for many years and I'm still wearing the same size clothing and about the same weight (actually less than when I played basketball in college) as a long, long time ago. Plus, there are reports that something is good for you, then a conflicting report years later that it's bad for you, but I've never seen anything that suggested moderate exercise was deleterious.
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Old 06-25-21, 08:20 PM
  #186  
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Originally Posted by Happy Feet View Post
We are straying a bit from bike shops but that study seems to say a couple of things.

a. No change in diet
b. absent that, exercise was needed to reduce weight.
c. and that the caloric imbalance was small in the controls used.

So basically, if you are pretty close to neutral in calories in/calories out and don't change your diet - exercise will help lose weight. That is true but I suspect many people who need to lose weight are not that close to calorie neutral. I occasionally calculate this for myself and the portions/food types are pretty modest compared to the modern traditional western diet. In that case, diet plays the dominant role.

However, exercise does play a role I believe in creating a psychological/lifestyle approach that influences food choices (tend to think more about the fuel choices) and increases base metabolism somewhat. On the flip side, exercise can sometimes stimulate overeating as a response. Lots of pro/college era athletes go to pot after retirement because of skewed mental imaging regarding normalized food volume consumption.

Apologies for the thread derailment
A guy I was in the Army with would be a gym rat and seriously exercise for hours just so he could get away with gorging himself close to vomiting without gaining weight. It worked for him.

Weird priorities with food. Otherwise a great guy.
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Old 06-25-21, 08:20 PM
  #187  
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https://www.studyfinds.org/study-fin...losing-weight/
https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...0203163857.htm
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Old 06-25-21, 11:04 PM
  #188  
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Well, as long as we're here:
[size=14px]Previous research has found that when people are asked about their physical activity, they tend to overstate the amount they do. To provide a more objective measure, participants wore tracking devices called accelerometers on their waists for a week. The devices measured the wearers' energy expenditure and step count. Researchers also measured participants' weight, height and body fat. After an initial exam, participants were asked to return one year and two years later.
It also states that the fittest (Ghana) also had the lowest weights at an average of 136 pounds, but neglects to mention the body composition of the study participants at any stage of the study.

At a stubborn 6 foot & 190 pounds (16 pounds less weight & a few inches taller than the average North American male) I can assure you 17% Body fat is a lot healthier than the same weight at 35% body fat of any height.

...& then there is the activity profile of the various participants. Accumulated intensity minutes of a Ghanan from walking 6-8 hours per day, every single day just to exist is going to yield a different physiological response than a guy in Iowa or Chicago (or wherever) lifting weights for an accumulated 30 minutes in a 2 or 3 hour gym session 3 days a week.[/size]

It's good to know that per the OP's assertion there is no corrolation between weight & exercise. At 3500+ calories a day (true, per My Fitness Pal) I guess I can quit exercise, & eat all I want. Maybe my all time high of 250 pounds & 1 meal per day as a sedentary truck driver was just a fluke?

Moderators shelbyfv , cb400bill This thread has drifted enough. Time to close?
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Old 06-27-21, 09:49 PM
  #189  
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Shelby is a mod?
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Old 06-27-21, 10:19 PM
  #190  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
Shelby is a mod?
No. I meant to BillyD , but I was mistaken. I must've had Shelby in mind from reading another thread.

My bad.
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Old 06-27-21, 11:02 PM
  #191  
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Originally Posted by terrymorse View Post
The reality appears to be a gradual weight gain, which implies a much smaller daily calorie overload.
Or some of the excess is being, er "dumped".
​​​
It's pretty clear that the energy used or fat stored per physical chemistry calorie entering the digestive tract is not universal across humanity, or even necessarily for the same person throughout their life.

There are all sort of potential explanations, ranging from our metabolism to our intestinal microbiome. And there's some evidence from kill it off and replace it illness treatments that changing out the microbiome can change weight gain (sometimes creating the problem).
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Old 08-28-21, 06:40 PM
  #192  
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Originally Posted by milton keynes View Post
not more reliable, but simpler and arguably easier to work on.
ford
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Old 08-29-21, 09:25 AM
  #193  
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Originally Posted by Mark Dominck View Post
Back in the day? Heck I've been fixing my own for ever, If you want to ride you need to learn how to fix it, that's why we have a tool bag under the seat. Same goes for your car, amazing what you can see if you just open the hood! Don't be afraid it's how we learn.
Sixty eight years ago this farm boy was doing all of his own bike repair. I cleaned and repacked wheel bearing, bottom bracket, and cleaned out and regreased the New Departure coaster brake.
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Old 08-29-21, 11:57 PM
  #194  
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Originally Posted by 70sSanO View Post
There is not enough time nor words to explain the areas where our economy has changed over the past 50 years; and the impact of all those changes.

However, I believe that it is a correct assessment that people will not pay 3 times the amount for the same service so a bicycle mechanic can earn $50/hr and sustain a lifestyle in expensive areas.

If you really think about it, someone will pay an HVAC tech whatever they need to pay to get their A/C working and maintain their comfort level during the Summer heat wave.

At the same time, that person will ride their bike at speeds that will result in death, but complain about not being able to find a good bike mechanic to overhaul their disc brakes.

John
I face a similar problem. I am a goldsmith with over 40 years experience. People will pay a mechanic $99 / hour, but balk when I want to charge $75/ hour. There is a perceived value issue here. If a person doesn’t want to learn to do a particular repair or acquire the specialty tools to do so, how little are they willing to pay for an expert job? The cost is often pegged to the value of the initial item. Thus a BSO from a big box store might be more challenging to get to operate properly than a more quality oriented brand bike would, but the customer won’t be willing to pay for the actual time and materials.
When I need to repair or make an item in silver, I usually have to hand fabricate something as there are no pre-made components in Silver. The same item, fabricated in gold will actually take less time because there are available components in gold. In other words, a silver item, though it is worth a fraction of a comparable gold one, will take three times longer to work on. The percentage of the final cost that is Labor is considerably higher. But the customer doesn’t understand why it costs so much more to make! Again; “perceived value”!
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Old 08-30-21, 01:35 AM
  #195  
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I haven't been in a bike shop in a couple of years. Ignoring the issue of how much money you can save by buying online, the shops near me don't carry anything cool anymore. If they did I'd spend a little money and support them. The Trek dealer here may as well rename the place Bontrager Bike Shop. I used to spend all kinds of time just browsing inside the shops drooling over stuff but no more.

Performance Bike was actually the best shop, they had a huge selection of stuff but of course they're no more.
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Old 08-30-21, 04:56 AM
  #196  
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Originally Posted by elcraft View Post
I face a similar problem. I am a goldsmith with over 40 years experience. !
What do people typically need a goldsmith for ?
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Old 08-30-21, 05:15 AM
  #197  
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Originally Posted by Lazyass View Post
I haven't been in a bike shop in a couple of years. Ignoring the issue of how much money you can save by buying online, the shops near me don't carry anything cool anymore. If they did I'd spend a little money and support them. The Trek dealer here may as well rename the place Bontrager Bike Shop. I used to spend all kinds of time just browsing inside the shops drooling over stuff but no more.

Performance Bike was actually the best shop, they had a huge selection of stuff but of course they're no more.
Bike shops no longer carry cool stuff for people to browse anymore because it does not sell. The product does not sell in bike shops because people buy the stuff for a few dollars less online. As a result most bike shops are stocking fewer items and as time goes on it will only get worse. Performance bike may have had a huge selection of stuff but apparently it was not selling enough for them to keep their doors open.
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Old 08-30-21, 05:27 AM
  #198  
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Originally Posted by elcraft View Post
I face a similar problem. I am a goldsmith with over 40 years experience. People will pay a mechanic $99 / hour, but balk when I want to charge $75/ hour. There is a perceived value issue here. If a person doesn’t want to learn to do a particular repair or acquire the specialty tools to do so, how little are they willing to pay for an expert job? The cost is often pegged to the value of the initial item. Thus a BSO from a big box store might be more challenging to get to operate properly than a more quality oriented brand bike would, but the customer won’t be willing to pay for the actual time and materials.
When I need to repair or make an item in silver, I usually have to hand fabricate something as there are no pre-made components in Silver. The same item, fabricated in gold will actually take less time because there are available components in gold. In other words, a silver item, though it is worth a fraction of a comparable gold one, will take three times longer to work on. The percentage of the final cost that is Labor is considerably higher. But the customer doesn’t understand why it costs so much more to make! Again; “perceived value”!
This has been my experience for anything I'd do that is not particularly for me.
When it comes to objects, stuff, purpose for convenience, & similar et al things, the value is without forethought precogitated for that particular situation. A leased vehicle, flat screen TV, disposable cup, garden hose reel etc etc.
If the item is a heirloom [ie: has a sentimental value] then the cost is given a blank check. A vintage tool from a grand parent, jewelry, handcrafted wooden bench for the house, grandmas quilt, rare engine for a classic car etc.

If the person doing the work is passionate about the particular thing you want repaired or serviced, you might benefit as a customer, but usually the customer tends to abuse the kindness of that service tech & not have much respect for the time involved.
It greatly helps if the customer understands the real value & the realistic expectations of the situation. If your engine block is cracked , it is typical to write it off, but there will always be a way to fix it if you're willing to fork out the cash & time to have it fixed.
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Old 08-30-21, 07:04 AM
  #199  
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Originally Posted by CheGiantForLife View Post
What do people typically need a goldsmith for ?
Custom made engagement ring using heirloom stones, for one. Beloved heirloom ring from Grandma or Great Aunt So and So that needs to be sized to fit a new wearer. Structural repairs of worn out rings, i.e., worn prongs or ring shank, broken or worn clasp mechanisms for necklaces or bracelets, etc.
Remember that heart shaped piece of Sea Glass or Shell that was found on the beach during a honeymoon or significant travel experience? Suppose you want to make a pendant mounting or necklace with said artifact. I am sure you get the idea…..
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Old 08-30-21, 07:14 AM
  #200  
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OP can barely ride a bike according to his own posts but he's an expert on the bike business.

Seriously, folks?
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