downhill windy road help
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downhill windy road help
I have a 2007 Specialized Roubaix Comp triple. Great bike. However, I have never felt confident going downhill on windy roads that weren't completely smooth. I always feel like if there is some bumpiness (gravel or those "wake up you are about to go into the opposite lane divots") and I am riding the brakes that I'm on the verge of losing control. I get the sense that the brakes are about to chatter locking up after losing contact with the road momentarily. I have felt this with other bikes so I think it is my technique more than anything.
Doesn't seem to matter if I'm using the drops or top of the bars, as soon as I use the brakes with road chatter I feel like "this might be the ride". Probably doesn't matter that I'm on a straight or windy road, I guess I just ride windy hills more often. Any suggestions? I'm not going super fast, maybe 30mph max.
Anybody else have this experience?
Doesn't seem to matter if I'm using the drops or top of the bars, as soon as I use the brakes with road chatter I feel like "this might be the ride". Probably doesn't matter that I'm on a straight or windy road, I guess I just ride windy hills more often. Any suggestions? I'm not going super fast, maybe 30mph max.
Anybody else have this experience?
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I have a 2007 Specialized Roubaix Comp triple. Great bike. However, I have never felt confident going downhill on windy roads that weren't completely smooth. I always feel like if there is some bumpiness (gravel or those "wake up you are about to go into the opposite lane divots") and I am riding the brakes that I'm on the verge of losing control. I get the sense that the brakes are about to chatter locking up after losing contact with the road momentarily. I have felt this with other bikes so I think it is my technique more than anything.
Doesn't seem to matter if I'm using the drops or top of the bars, as soon as I use the brakes with road chatter I feel like "this might be the ride". Probably doesn't matter that I'm on a straight or windy road, I guess I just ride windy hills more often. Any suggestions? I'm not going super fast, maybe 30mph max.
Anybody else have this experience?
Doesn't seem to matter if I'm using the drops or top of the bars, as soon as I use the brakes with road chatter I feel like "this might be the ride". Probably doesn't matter that I'm on a straight or windy road, I guess I just ride windy hills more often. Any suggestions? I'm not going super fast, maybe 30mph max.
Anybody else have this experience?
The solutions are to (1) use your brakes lightly and judiciously, (2) shift your weight back and get low on the bike (to aid with stability), and (3) avoid the bumps by looking ahead at the smooth portions of the pavement. (We tend to steer in the direction we are looking.)
I'm sure others will chime in with more advice, but that's mine.
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The above advice but also get your weight off the seat (if you are coasting).
With your weight off the seat, your legs will be able to quickly act as shock absorbers.
You'll be able to stop/slow-down better if you can move your butt behind your seat. Practice (get used to) doing this on a normal (flat ride).
Also, try to take the lane rather than riding close to the right side of the lane. You'll have more space to maneuver and more options to avoid rough spots. Doing that entails checking traffic before the decent and takes some practice and experience.
With your weight off the seat, your legs will be able to quickly act as shock absorbers.
You'll be able to stop/slow-down better if you can move your butt behind your seat. Practice (get used to) doing this on a normal (flat ride).
Also, try to take the lane rather than riding close to the right side of the lane. You'll have more space to maneuver and more options to avoid rough spots. Doing that entails checking traffic before the decent and takes some practice and experience.
Last edited by njkayaker; 07-23-20 at 10:22 PM.
#5
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I have a 2007 Specialized Roubaix Comp triple. Great bike. However, I have never felt confident going downhill on windy roads that weren't completely smooth. I always feel like if there is some bumpiness (gravel or those "wake up you are about to go into the opposite lane divots") and I am riding the brakes that I'm on the verge of losing control. I get the sense that the brakes are about to chatter locking up after losing contact with the road momentarily. I have felt this with other bikes so I think it is my technique more than anything.
Doesn't seem to matter if I'm using the drops or top of the bars, as soon as I use the brakes with road chatter I feel like "this might be the ride". Probably doesn't matter that I'm on a straight or windy road, I guess I just ride windy hills more often. Any suggestions? I'm not going super fast, maybe 30mph max.
Anybody else have this experience?
Doesn't seem to matter if I'm using the drops or top of the bars, as soon as I use the brakes with road chatter I feel like "this might be the ride". Probably doesn't matter that I'm on a straight or windy road, I guess I just ride windy hills more often. Any suggestions? I'm not going super fast, maybe 30mph max.
Anybody else have this experience?
I almost never use my brakes, especially the rear one. I am always looking ahead to anticipate hazards. Stay off the drops unless you are clear of dangers which can hit with no warning. I almost hit a chicken once in farm country. Anyone can go fast on downhills; it is the climbs that separate the men from the boys. this does not mean that brakes are not important. Keep them well maintained but use them sparingly. Happy cycling.
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I have a 2007 Specialized Roubaix Comp triple. Great bike. However, I have never felt confident going downhill on windy roads that weren't completely smooth. I always feel like if there is some bumpiness (gravel or those "wake up you are about to go into the opposite lane divots") and I am riding the brakes that I'm on the verge of losing control. I get the sense that the brakes are about to chatter locking up after losing contact with the road momentarily. I have felt this with other bikes so I think it is my technique more than anything.
Doesn't seem to matter if I'm using the drops or top of the bars, as soon as I use the brakes with road chatter I feel like "this might be the ride". Probably doesn't matter that I'm on a straight or windy road, I guess I just ride windy hills more often. Any suggestions? I'm not going super fast, maybe 30mph max.
Anybody else have this experience?
Doesn't seem to matter if I'm using the drops or top of the bars, as soon as I use the brakes with road chatter I feel like "this might be the ride". Probably doesn't matter that I'm on a straight or windy road, I guess I just ride windy hills more often. Any suggestions? I'm not going super fast, maybe 30mph max.
Anybody else have this experience?
You sould almost never be “riding the brakes”. Brake harder when conditions are good (going straight, smooth pavement) and then let off them when thing are bad (cornering, bad road conditions).
Sometimes you just have to make the best of less-than-stellar options, like if the whole road is bumpy and gravelly. In that case, brake as much as you can on the straight sections.
Also, try larger tires at lower pressure.
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As others have pointed out, you should be in the drops and weight well back for safety. Personally, I can't just let-r-rip even on familiar descents. I've seen too many deer, dogs, cats, turkeys, chickens and squirrels turn suicidal to trust that one won't pop out of the roadside. I actually know folks who have been wrecked by all of above with the exception of turkeys. In truth, I'm probably no more likely to be able to avoid such at 35mph than I am at 50mph. I guess it's a mental failing but I can't see trying to overcome it at this point.
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As others have pointed out, you should be in the drops and weight well back for safety. Personally, I can't just let-r-rip even on familiar descents. I've seen too many deer, dogs, cats, turkeys, chickens and squirrels turn suicidal to trust that one won't pop out of the roadside. I actually know folks who have been wrecked by all of above with the exception of turkeys. In truth, I'm probably no more likely to be able to avoid such at 35mph than I am at 50mph. I guess it's a mental failing but I can't see trying to overcome it at this point.
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+1 on wider tires. Just going to 28 mm from 25 mm made a significant difference with road vibration and cornering. My 29er with 2.2 treads is a blast on roady downhills.
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Los of excellent advice. The only thing I would add is, if you're uncomfortable at 30mph, brake earlier and don't let your speed get that high to begin with.
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Thanks everyone. Anyone know if a Specialized Roubaix can accept 28s? It definitely can do 25s.
Why do wider tires help?
Why do wider tires help?
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The above advice but also get your weight off the seat (if you are coasting).
With your weight off the seat, your legs will be able to quickly act as shock absorbers.
You'll be able to stop/slow-down better if you can move your butt behind your seat. Practice (get used to) doing this on a normal (flat ride).
With your weight off the seat, your legs will be able to quickly act as shock absorbers.
You'll be able to stop/slow-down better if you can move your butt behind your seat. Practice (get used to) doing this on a normal (flat ride).
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Just checked and I am using 700x23 Michelin Lithion 2 tires. I'm gonna try the 28s. Any recommendations? Gatorskins?
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I think a lot has to do with familiarity with the descent. I am very familiar with the ones here, every nook and cranny and scrape from plows. Not so much when I first rode but more so as I rode more. Now I barely break and pedal all the way down. You will get there.
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For road bikes, most of the shock absorption is in your legs (some is in the tires). With your weight off the seat, your legs are active and can deal with bumps much more quickly.
You really don't want to hit a bump at speed with all your weight on the seat.
I have the habit of lifting my weight whenever I'm coasting. That way, if I hit a bump I missed seeing, I'm already dealing with it.
Last edited by njkayaker; 07-25-20 at 04:14 AM.
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Yes, at high speeds if you eliminate all contact with the saddle it can feel a bit less stable. When I lift my weight off the saddle in this situation, the saddle is still braced against one or both of my thighs.
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That’s only part of the story...and not the most important part. Wider tires have a large contact patch which means stability. Wider tires float over road irregularities while narrow tires either bounce off them (rocks) or knife into them (sand and soft spots).
The “lift” shouldn’t be very much. You don’t need to stand over the bike but only need to unload the saddle. One thing I haven’t seen mentioned is that your feet should be parallel to the ground you are riding over. If the road is flat and straight, the pedals should be even and horizontal. If the road is going down adjust so that your feet follow the terrain as you coast. Your knees should be flexed and taking the impact rather then the bike. Think of your legs as your shock absorbers. Your arms should be relaxed too. They are secondary shock absorbers.
When you get to a corner, put the inside pedal up and push hard on the outside pedal. This loads the tires on the outside edge and pulls you around the corner. Use brakes sparingly in corners but don’t avoid using them if you must. Part of the reason people tell you not to brake in corners is because the tire’s footprint is smaller and thus the friction is less. The bike will slide out to the side more quickly and is harder to recover from.
Body lean on corners is something else you need to think about. Bicycles have a high center of gravity. It’s located in your hips or a bit higher. You can’t lean into a corner like you would on a motorcycle because the wheels would slip out from under you. You want to lean over but you won’t be able to lean like a motorcycle racer. You have to lean the bike but lean “you” less.
The way to think of it is that your bike isn’t the heaviest part of the system. You don’t really have to manage it’s momentum. You are the heaviest part of the bike and you have to manage your body’s momentum. If let your bike bounce around under you, your body will just keep going in the same direction it was going before...Newton’s Laws of Motion and all that.
I really doubt that you’ll be able to use 28mm tires on that bike. The tire probably won’t clear the fork. I hate to say this but you have the wrong tool for the job. There is no way that you can make this bike into a “gravel” bike. You can ride it on gravel but, as you are finding, it’s a struggle.
When you get to a corner, put the inside pedal up and push hard on the outside pedal. This loads the tires on the outside edge and pulls you around the corner. Use brakes sparingly in corners but don’t avoid using them if you must. Part of the reason people tell you not to brake in corners is because the tire’s footprint is smaller and thus the friction is less. The bike will slide out to the side more quickly and is harder to recover from.
Body lean on corners is something else you need to think about. Bicycles have a high center of gravity. It’s located in your hips or a bit higher. You can’t lean into a corner like you would on a motorcycle because the wheels would slip out from under you. You want to lean over but you won’t be able to lean like a motorcycle racer. You have to lean the bike but lean “you” less.
The way to think of it is that your bike isn’t the heaviest part of the system. You don’t really have to manage it’s momentum. You are the heaviest part of the bike and you have to manage your body’s momentum. If let your bike bounce around under you, your body will just keep going in the same direction it was going before...Newton’s Laws of Motion and all that.
I really doubt that you’ll be able to use 28mm tires on that bike. The tire probably won’t clear the fork. I hate to say this but you have the wrong tool for the job. There is no way that you can make this bike into a “gravel” bike. You can ride it on gravel but, as you are finding, it’s a struggle.
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In my experience, going bigger without lowering the pressure on the road provides marginal benefit.
The size of the contact patch has mostly to do with the pressure, not the size of the tire. The benefits you are describing for a larger tire will not be realized unless you lower the pressure.
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I ordered some 700x28 gatorskins. I'll keep you posted - thanks everyone!!!
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Well you’re certainly entitled to your opinion as much as anybody else, but I disagree.
In my experience, going bigger without lowering the pressure on the road provides marginal benefit.
The size of the contact patch has mostly to do with the pressure, not the size of the tire. The benefits you are describing for a larger tire will not be realized unless you lower the pressure.
In my experience, going bigger without lowering the pressure on the road provides marginal benefit.
The size of the contact patch has mostly to do with the pressure, not the size of the tire. The benefits you are describing for a larger tire will not be realized unless you lower the pressure.
There is also a practical limit to lowering the pressure and, in my opinion, most people are below that limit. A tubed tire will pinch flat if the tire pressure is too low. What many people don’t understand is that pinch flat is telling you something. The tube is pinched when the tire is trapping the tube between the tire and the rim. You are risking impacting the rim on the ground and the result could be a damage rim. Damaged tubes are fairly cheap to fix. Damaged rims are far more involved and far more expensive.
However, in Symox’s case, going from a 23mm tire to even a 28 isn’t going to result in much protection nor in a significant decrease in rolling resistance. A 28mm tire is still a very narrow tire.
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Lowering the pressure increases the rolling resistance. Using a wider tire reduces rolling resistance over a narrow tire but not if you lower pressure at the same time.
There is also a practical limit to lowering the pressure and, in my opinion, most people are below that limit. A tubed tire will pinch flat if the tire pressure is too low. What many people don’t understand is that pinch flat is telling you something. The tube is pinched when the tire is trapping the tube between the tire and the rim. You are risking impacting the rim on the ground and the result could be a damage rim. Damaged tubes are fairly cheap to fix. Damaged rims are far more involved and far more expensive.
.
There is also a practical limit to lowering the pressure and, in my opinion, most people are below that limit. A tubed tire will pinch flat if the tire pressure is too low. What many people don’t understand is that pinch flat is telling you something. The tube is pinched when the tire is trapping the tube between the tire and the rim. You are risking impacting the rim on the ground and the result could be a damage rim. Damaged tubes are fairly cheap to fix. Damaged rims are far more involved and far more expensive.
.
As far as rolling resistance.... Sure, if you drop it too much you will have more resistance. But if - as you say - the larger tire rolls faster at the same pressures, then you can drop the pressure until the RR is the same.
Out of curiosity, do you run the same pressure in a set of 25s and a set of 38s?