Crashed - who screwed up?
09-09-21, 04:32 AM
#101
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It’s a basic law of physics: Matter/People expand to fill the space available
I have seen it countless times on MUPs. Three or four people walking abreast will take both lanes; all yacking away and totally oblivious that there is another trail user in the entire world. I just hope they don’t vote or drive cars or reproduce or…..
I have seen it countless times on MUPs. Three or four people walking abreast will take both lanes; all yacking away and totally oblivious that there is another trail user in the entire world. I just hope they don’t vote or drive cars or reproduce or…..
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09-09-21, 04:45 AM
#102
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^^^^^^MUPS are a mess in SoCal on the weekends especially.
The only thing I'd add is the closer you get to the beach the more crowded it gets and the number of 25+ mph e-bikes also increases.
The only MUP I ride is the northern SGRT which is pretty empty on weekdays.
The only thing I'd add is the closer you get to the beach the more crowded it gets and the number of 25+ mph e-bikes also increases.
The only MUP I ride is the northern SGRT which is pretty empty on weekdays.
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09-09-21, 07:15 AM
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If it had been me overtaking I wouldn't have gotten hit, Not because I would have yelled "On your left"---(I might have, but usually don't as it elicits shocked and irrational responses) but because after more than five decades of riding and seeing all the varieties of stupid human tricks, I wouldn't have trusted the guy to not do something stupid.
09-09-21, 08:06 AM
#104
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I think you need to take responsibility, but more than that, you need to take charge. You announce your presence so as to control their movement - that is the point of saying something.
09-09-21, 08:16 AM
#105
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Our ancestors have suggested a solution:
09-09-21, 08:20 AM
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Crashed - who screwed up?
The approaching speed of 13mph is a bit brisk, when passing someone who has no inkling you're there. Got to take some pains to be noticed, well before the passing zone has been reached, else anything's possible. Up to and including the person being overtaken panicking and "freezing."
The other person should have put his head on a swivel and surveyed the immediate area, before altering course and making changes. What the guy did sounds like a first-class noob error, assuming there's nobody else around and not looking before a move is made into or across a spot that's likely to have traffic. (He was there; he was traffic; it's lunacy to imagine there couldn't possibly be any other traffic.)
Defensive driving precautions were lacking on both sides, it looks like to me.
JMO
09-09-21, 08:43 AM
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Its your responsibility to maintain a safe speed and distance. Fault doesn't matter. Yes other rider is an idiot but we can avoid these things by putting more care into our own actions.
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09-09-21, 08:55 AM
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In the parlance of R e d i t 's Am I The A-hole: ETA.
09-09-21, 09:18 AM
#109
Jedi Master
Both cyclists at fault for riding on the GBT in the first place. It's not even really a bike path and Sheridan Road runs parallel two blocks away.
09-09-21, 10:10 AM
#110
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I was thinking about this while riding and not calling "on your left" and ignoring people making sudden u-turns tonight.
If I was the guy making the U-turn .... I would have to say the fault was 100 percent mine. If I was stupid enough to pull toward the right as i slowed (which is normal for me and probably others) and then suddenly decided to do a U-Turn, and, Without Looking, turned my bike perpendicular to the path of travel, thus likely blocking Both lanes .... yeah, my bad, 100 percent. Definitely I need to Look before I make a maneuver like that. basically, I pilled into the road and blocked traffic without bothering to check if there was traffic. Yeah ... My Fault One Hundred Percent.
If it had been me overtaking I wouldn't have gotten hit, Not because I would have yelled "On your left"---(I might have, but usually don't as it elicits shocked and irrational responses) but because after more than five decades of riding and seeing all the varieties of stupid human tricks, I wouldn't have trusted the guy to not do something stupid.
That doesn't make it my fault, no matter if I yelled or whatever. It is the other guy's Fault.
Of course, legal liability is kind of secondary if you break your bike and body .... and there are both concerns here, personal safety and legal liability.
But yeah .... I don't see how the U-Turner wouldn't be completely Legally liable.
If I was the guy making the U-turn .... I would have to say the fault was 100 percent mine. If I was stupid enough to pull toward the right as i slowed (which is normal for me and probably others) and then suddenly decided to do a U-Turn, and, Without Looking, turned my bike perpendicular to the path of travel, thus likely blocking Both lanes .... yeah, my bad, 100 percent. Definitely I need to Look before I make a maneuver like that. basically, I pilled into the road and blocked traffic without bothering to check if there was traffic. Yeah ... My Fault One Hundred Percent.
If it had been me overtaking I wouldn't have gotten hit, Not because I would have yelled "On your left"---(I might have, but usually don't as it elicits shocked and irrational responses) but because after more than five decades of riding and seeing all the varieties of stupid human tricks, I wouldn't have trusted the guy to not do something stupid.
That doesn't make it my fault, no matter if I yelled or whatever. It is the other guy's Fault.
Of course, legal liability is kind of secondary if you break your bike and body .... and there are both concerns here, personal safety and legal liability.
But yeah .... I don't see how the U-Turner wouldn't be completely Legally liable.
09-09-21, 10:44 AM
#111
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09-09-21, 11:01 AM
#112
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MA manual simply states "You must give an audible warning (other than a siren or whistle) when necessary to ensure safe operation." Page 110 here https://www.mass.gov/doc/chapter-4-r...oad-0/download
So that leaves room for interpretation, it shouldn't be necessary to announce passing, not when the onus should be on a person to be aware of their surroundings and look behind them before making any moves. I can forgive kids and announce myself to kids when I'm on the path, but adults should know better.
So that leaves room for interpretation, it shouldn't be necessary to announce passing, not when the onus should be on a person to be aware of their surroundings and look behind them before making any moves. I can forgive kids and announce myself to kids when I'm on the path, but adults should know better.
09-09-21, 11:12 AM
#113
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Mass law also sates • "If on a sidewalk or shared use path, you must yield to pedestrians and give an audible signal before overtaking or passing (no sirens or whistles)."
(Apparently Massachusetts also has five-foot-wide bike lanes. I find this hard to conceive. Where I live, five inches of white paint for the fog line is about what bikes are allowed. )
However, OP lives in Chicago.
(Apparently Massachusetts also has five-foot-wide bike lanes. I find this hard to conceive. Where I live, five inches of white paint for the fog line is about what bikes are allowed. )
However, OP lives in Chicago.
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09-09-21, 11:23 AM
#114
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Here is Chicago bike law--(quick search only) Doesn't mention MUPs or audible signals.
https://codelibrary.amlegal.com/code...130#JD_Ch.9-52
https://codelibrary.amlegal.com/code...130#JD_Ch.9-52
09-09-21, 11:34 AM
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Illinois statutes, notice interaction between section (a) and (c).
Sec. 11-1512. Bicycles on sidewalks. (a) A person propelling a bicycle upon and along a sidewalk, or across a roadway upon and along a crosswalk, shall yield the right of way to any pedestrian and shall give audible signal before overtaking and passing such pedestrian.
(b) A person shall not ride a bicycle upon and along a sidewalk, or across a roadway upon and along a crosswalk, where such use of bicycles is prohibited by official traffic-control devices.
(c) A person propelling a bicycle upon and along a sidewalk, or across a roadway upon and along a crosswalk, shall have all the rights and duties applicable to a pedestrian under the same circumstances.
I know this is going to get hung up on whether a MUP is a sidewalk, but it is very clear that under Illinois law, a MUP is not a road. Illinois code specifically designates roads as being for "vehicles" and excludes "human powered devices" from its definition of vehicles.
It is not at all clear that there is any rule requiring the signaling of turns and/or looking behind you on a MUP other than common sense. The bicyclist has a right to be signaled just as a pedestrian would. The duty to signal is only assigned to bicyclists.
Sec. 11-1512. Bicycles on sidewalks. (a) A person propelling a bicycle upon and along a sidewalk, or across a roadway upon and along a crosswalk, shall yield the right of way to any pedestrian and shall give audible signal before overtaking and passing such pedestrian.
(b) A person shall not ride a bicycle upon and along a sidewalk, or across a roadway upon and along a crosswalk, where such use of bicycles is prohibited by official traffic-control devices.
(c) A person propelling a bicycle upon and along a sidewalk, or across a roadway upon and along a crosswalk, shall have all the rights and duties applicable to a pedestrian under the same circumstances.
I know this is going to get hung up on whether a MUP is a sidewalk, but it is very clear that under Illinois law, a MUP is not a road. Illinois code specifically designates roads as being for "vehicles" and excludes "human powered devices" from its definition of vehicles.
It is not at all clear that there is any rule requiring the signaling of turns and/or looking behind you on a MUP other than common sense. The bicyclist has a right to be signaled just as a pedestrian would. The duty to signal is only assigned to bicyclists.
Last edited by livedarklions; 09-09-21 at 11:50 AM.
09-09-21, 11:35 AM
#116
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Illinois Bicycle Code---I don't see any difference from the Chicago laws. Illinois Compiled Statutes > 625 ILCS 5 > Chapter 11 > Article XV – Bicycles
https://www.lawserver.com/law/state/..._11_article_xv
https://www.lawserver.com/law/state/..._11_article_xv
09-09-21, 11:58 AM
#117
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Here is Chicago bike law--(quick search only) Doesn't mention MUPs or audible signals.
https://codelibrary.amlegal.com/code...130#JD_Ch.9-52
https://codelibrary.amlegal.com/code...130#JD_Ch.9-52
I just caught this--9-52-045 requires signaling on "upon any public path set aside for the use of bicycles".
Is this path within Chicago city limits?
09-09-21, 12:01 PM
#118
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Illinois Bicycle Code---I don't see any difference from the Chicago laws. Illinois Compiled Statutes > 625 ILCS 5 > Chapter 11 > Article XV – Bicycles
https://www.lawserver.com/law/state/..._11_article_xv
https://www.lawserver.com/law/state/..._11_article_xv
11-1512 is completely different from the Chicago rules on sidewalks. The state laws cover more ground, Chicago ordinances merely elaborate on them.
09-09-21, 12:06 PM
#119
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Yep, similar thing this morning while driving the kids to school. A block away from the school, younger kid on a bike up ahead, I thought, "Better slow down for this squirrelly kid on a bike." Sure enough, he not only veered out into the middle of the street, but all the way over the the left side before moving back toward the right again. People can be just totally unpredictable, and kids are the worst, but luckily I was able to predict his unpredictableness.
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09-09-21, 12:07 PM
#120
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Here is Chicago bike law--(quick search only) Doesn't mention MUPs or audible signals.
https://codelibrary.amlegal.com/code...130#JD_Ch.9-52
https://codelibrary.amlegal.com/code...130#JD_Ch.9-52
OK, I checked, OP was in Winnetka, Chicago ordinances aren't relevant.
09-09-21, 12:53 PM
#121
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09-09-21, 02:18 PM
#122
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Total summary of responses:
The other guy was solely at fault: 23
You alone were at fault: 21
You both were at fault. - him for not looking and you for not announcing and/or anticipating: 522
The other guy was solely at fault: 23
You alone were at fault: 21
You both were at fault. - him for not looking and you for not announcing and/or anticipating: 522
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09-09-21, 02:59 PM
#123
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Every person riding a bicycle upon a highway shall be granted all of the rights, including, but not limited to, rights under Article IX of this Chapter, and shall be subject to all of the duties applicable to the driver of a vehicle by this Code, except as to special regulations in this Article XV and those provisions of this Code which by their nature can have no application. (https://www.lawserver.com/law/state/...ilcs_5_11-1502)
Right, but that's applicable to highways, not sidewalks or paths.
Got to read all of the phrases, those initial qualifiers are essential to understanding whether or not the statute applies.
I'm not going to look it up right now, but if you look at the definitions section of the Illinois traffic code you'll see that "human powered" is exempted from the classification of vehicles.
09-09-21, 04:45 PM
#124
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^ yeah, but I did not see any reference to multi-use paths, and the references to sidewalks were to sidewalks adjoining roads, not specialty paths where cycling was an expected use.
09-09-21, 04:48 PM
#125
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Anyway ... aren't they all figures of speech? My bikes are not "human-powered." I am human-powered, the bikes have no power whatsoever. They just sit there. Even when I ride it the bike has no power, it is merely a machine for changing directions of motion of my body, powered by my very nearly human self.
Now if I rode on a human who rode on a bike .....
Now if I rode on a human who rode on a bike .....
