stelpa

I don't know...
I like the dahon bikes but they are harder to get here...
do you work at a bikestore?

tds101 

No, I don't work at a bike store. I honestly wish I did though,...

stelpa

ah ok, wandered because of the "we" in the earlier posting

Well I would love to know someone who's working in a bikestore where they sell bromptons and gets discounts

Oh and to post an update: I couldn't try the used dahon vitesse because it was sold immediately

tds101 

The "we" is in reference to "dahon owners", not bike retailers. I don't represent any bicycle company. I would have expected my stating that I own a tern folder to give that away.

As to getting a discount on a Brommie, good luck. That'd be a dream come true for me.

stelpa

I didn't want to suggest you represent a company. It just sounded to me that you could work in a shop selling a lot of terns and dahons and having more customers complaints about terns
nothing more

tds101 

The winking denotes sarcasm. so it's not appreciated. As to my knowledge of complaints about tern bikes, how about looking through the "Folding Bike" section to find the threads that show all the frame failures that occurred, and how tern decided to attempt to hide them from the public before being FORCED to do a recall of various models. They locked their forums, told customers it was "their fault" the frames failed, and waited until they had no other choice but to take action. THIS is tern's legacy. No amount of marketing will make me trust them again. There are others in this forum who share my opinion, and that's where the "we" came from before. As in "we" in the forums.

Have a wonderful night.

stelpa

Well I'm new in the forum, so I apologise.
I also don't see it as sarcasm to use this emoticon. I blame it on cultural difference, and apologise again.

I thank you for your insights, since I don't know anybody using neither tern nor dahon. I would go for a dahon anyways... they somehow... hm... touch me more. I don't know. I have an awkward feeling about tern, wherever that's coming from...

I wish you a good night.
Here it's almost 11a.m. and my workday is about to start.

tcs

I've seen some recent production Terns and liked them. There are a few of their current models I wouldn't mind owning. However, let us say you are voicing a minority opinion when you say Tern fully understood the engineering back when they first started out building Dahon knockoffs and they made their frames with a thin tube unsupported and unreinforced butt welded at a high-stress point in the frame.

tcs

For me, it's more than that, even. By Josh Hon's own admission, he spent some 10 months setting up his rival company while drawing a paycheck from Dahon. Then he walked out the door with the password for the Dahon website.

There was a lawsuit about 'violation of fiduciary duties' over Josh Hon's actions. The settlement wasn't announced, but Dahon, Inc. seemed to get everything they wanted.

And don't get me started about Tern's meritless 'patent infringement' lawsuits against Downtube...

tds101 

I left out all the legal issues, since I'm not fully versed in what transpired, but I DO remember the BS lawsuit against Downtube, and all the other companies they attempted to (mercilessly) sue without justification. I would NEVER purchase another tern bicycle, no matter how tempted I may be.

KC8QVO

For what it is worth, maybe not much -

The OP (original poster) states they are looking for gears, may deal with some hills, and want a decent folding bike for the money that is available in their area.

If Dahons are available I wouldn't shy away from them. I am not sure if you are wanting to order online and have shipped to you, or if you are looking to buy through a bike shop... However, ensure you get the bike properly set up and adjusted.

I have another thread I just started on frustrations with new Dahons in that we've had 2 now that have come with the hub tension way too tight. "Hub tension", if you are not familiar with bike mechanics, relates to how traditional bike hub bearings work. The bearings are "open" bearings where you have loose balls that are held in "races" (the tracks in the hub and axle in which the balls roll) by pressure between opposing races. That pressure is set by how "tight" the cones on the axle are. The cones are the part on the axle that contains the axle/inner race. The hub itself contains the hub race.

Setting proper hub tension is easy. However, it isn't an adjustment that you would have the ability to do with a typical roadside bike tool kit as you need "cone wrenches".

If you don't have cone wrenches and/or aren't confident in your bike mechanic abilities then it is imperative you have someone that knows how to properly set hub tension check yours over before you ever put weight on it and roll or ride. Loading up tight hubs is a fast track to screwing up wheels. Been there, done that, got the messed up wheel.

That having been said, I would not shy away from Dahons over the above issue. It is just something to be aware of and deal with if you run in to it - good chance you will.

I have the Mariner and have several hundred miles on it, including loaded day tours. It has been in daily commuter service from time to time. I am riding it again for commuting now. I have not rode it this season for a ride, other than quick testing/fitment in a parking lot, so my commuting today was the first its been out this season. It's in good working order and I'll keep riding it for a while.

If you are dealing with hills - the gear range of the Mariner is OK out of the box if you are not carrying much weight. However, if I were to make a recommendation - especially if you aren't in to fast riding - knock the chain ring down a few teeth. I don't have the gear inches off the top of my head, but where I run in to the most gearing limitations is on the low end. If I could get a chain ring that would give me the equivalent of 2 low end gears more, at the expense of loosing the 2 high gears, that would suit most of my riding better.

Another option is to go to a double chain ring up front. Then you can keep the stock gearing (gear inches) and add a smaller chain ring for even more range, without loosing the top end gears the bike already has. I am not sure if you could keep the same chain ring, but I'm sure you can get the same tooth count so the gear inches would be the same there.

Getting a front derailleur on the Dahon bikes isn't an "out of the box" bolt on upgrade - the seat tube is not a size most front derailleurs mounts are compatible with. You would have to have one custom made (any capable machine shop should be able to make one for you out of something like 6061-T6 aluminum plate).

I would start with a stock Mariner and see how you like the gears first before looking at changing things around. I have had mine for a few years now and still haven't upgraded the gearing, though I know I should.

As to the wheel size of folding bikes - at least here in the US 20" wheels are pretty common. 16" wheels are not as common, aside from smaller kid/toddler bikes - and those are usually department store variety bikes here in the US. To find quality parts (wheels, tires, etc) the 20" wheel size is a LOT easier to find affordable parts for. Below that you get in to specialty sizes and that costs a lot more money. So for this reason alone I think 20" is going to be your best bet.

The only deviation from the 20" wheel size that I would throw out there as an option/reason for smaller is if space is really at a premium somewhere. Compared to a conventional upright bicycle with 24", 26", 27", 650B, 700C etc wheel sizes - a 20" folding bike is very compact. However, it isn't "tiny". There are smaller options - the Bromptons you mention are the cream of the crop - they use smaller wheels and the geometry in how they fold lets them get very compact. As you found, though - you pay for it.

Bike Friday is another brand I would consider. I don't know about availability where you are. Bike Friday is also going to be a bit on the pricey side. They will likely be more expensive than Dahon, but you get a ton of options and you can build a more affordable bike. Check them out before you cross them off your list, if just to see another perspective on how to do up a folding bike - drivetrains and other equipment.

Good luck!

stelpa

it's worth a lot! Thank you!


How would I know the tension is too tight?
I would have to order it from the Internet because so far I haven't found a shop selling dahons (maybe in the capital city but it's quite far and I already saw that also there most shops sell Bromptons and terns)
I found that they are difficult to get too.
I found some selling the vybe and hit... curl of course. I'm checking out vybe and qix again. But I'd rather think twice before just buying one.
as for gates I read something similar for Bromptons... only you can change that when you choose your bike. That's very cool I think.
But I think I will start with what I get... and when I think it is way too hard, I will go to a shop to get it changed

That is probably true...
I was quite surprised though, when I first saw a tern link... it seemed so big! But it is probably easier to get it fixed...

I never looked into BF bikes... I think they are practically non available here.
I don't know if I mix it up with a Birdy but don't you have to grab the front wheel for folding? That's a commuting no go for me!

Thanks a lot for the detailed answer!
much appreciated


EDIT: no BFs available here

KC8QVO

Easy. Take the wheels off and spin the axles with your fingers - holding the wheel still and turning the axle, not holding the axle and turning the wheel. The axle should feel light to turn, not very stiff, gritty, and/or detented. Ours were extremely tight - hard to turn. Not just "stiffer than they should be". If you don't know what the free bearing spinning wheel should feel like you wouldn't likely catch it just rolling the bike around or spinning the wheel by hand. In case of the latter - the weight of the wheel/tire and effort it takes to get that moving hides the resistance of the bearing. This is why you have to spin the axle by hand - you are turning the smallest amount of mass with the smallest amount of leverage. If there is an issue you will feel it right away - no hiding it.

I would go so far as to undo the tension completely. Unthread the cones off the axle (one cone at a time) and inspect the races to see if they are damaged first. Then reassemble. Ensure there is sufficient lube in the bearings.

When you reassemble the axle should be pretty close to centered. It isn't absolutely critical to have it precisely centered. That won't matter in the end. Your hub assembly will have the dropout spacing already set so keep the order of all the parts (you may find some go cones, spacer, jam nut, dropout, flat washer, outside nut, for example - keep it the exact order when you put back together). If you put the washer on the wrong side of the of a dropout, for example, you throw off the dropout spacing and your wheel/tire won't be perfectly centered.

As far as setting proper tension - adjust so that the axle is free-spinning with seemingly no pressure on the races (very light pressure). You will notice that as you get to the "no pressure" point the axle has a very small amount of rocking in it if you shake the axle against the bearing. The looser it is the more the rocking gets. Tighten to the point you eliminate the rocking. I find it easier to go backwards - over-tighten (a bit, not super tight - that will damage the races and balls) then back off the cones. Doing it this way the cones and jam nuts are already tight so you are tightening the cones against the jam nuts more when you loosen the tension, if that makes sense. If you go the other way where you tighten the tension to bring out the axle rocking you are loosening the pressure against the jam nuts. It is next to impossible to keep the cone position set when you go back to tightening the jam nut. In my experience I can't figure out how to do that so I go the other way - tighten things up then back off the tension to the "sweet spot".

Speaking of "sweet spot" - sometimes I err on the side of a hair amount of axle rock - where I can just barely feel it. This way I know the tension isn't too high. That's how I set our new Dahon the other day. Once it has some rides in on it I will check it over again to ensure its OK.

This is the cone wrench set I have:
https://www.parktool.com/product/sho...-set-scw-set-3

I have duplicates of several sizes -
13, 14, 15, 17mm I think are my doubles.

I can tell you the new Dahon (Piazza 7 speed) needs 2x 13mm's and 2x 17mm's. The 13mm's are for the cones and the 17mm's are for the jam nuts. The outside axle nuts are 15mm. You can work these without a cone wrench. The others you need a cone wrench for.

There are double sided cone wrenches out there that have 2 sizes per wrench. I would stay away from them. Overall you get more wrench for the money, but the ergonomics of them is terrible. Having individual wrenches is the way to go.

To the above point - I highly recommend getting the full set of all the sizes then add the duplicates you need. In time they are tools you will likely use the more you work on bikes. Between us now we have 6 bikes, not including other family members. They are all different and theres no telling what sizes things are. If I run in to something I don't have - a size I need a duplicate of I don't have - I'll get one and add it.

tcs

Our OP said the usage would be multimodal commuting. Based on many years personal experience, BikeFriday would be just about the last 'folder' I'd choose for multimodal commuting.

The OP hasn't said how long the bike rides are on either side of the train ride or how crowded the train is, but my advice for multimodal commuting remains: go light, go small.

tcs

This might help explain why you can't find the bikes you're interested in:

In North America (and also the EU?) bike sales dropped a bit in 2016 after years of increases. Nobody knew why - certainly as much riding was being done as in prior years. Just a fluke? Uh, no, new bike and upgrade component sales dropped again in 2017. Okay, dealers were kind of building up inventory that wasn't moving, so they ordered less for the 2018 year. By this time, factories were cutting production and staff in response to lower orders. But things would turn around, right? Nope! Sales for 2018 went down some more. Industry thinkers and planners couldn't figure out why - folks were out there riding, they just weren't buying as much stuff. Then sales went down again in 2019. Yikes! Dealers ordered next to nothing for the 2020 sales year.

Yeah. 2020 and COVID hit. The world got locked down and one of the few things you could do outside was going on a bike ride. Everybody and their brother and their dog wanted a bike. Dealers scrambled to their distributors, distributors rushed to their parent companies. Factories responded, 'Are you kidding? We've been laying off workers and scaling back capacity for five years. Plus, our workers are locked down, too, and can't come build bikes. Oh, and our component suppliers have the same issues.' So everything got back-ordered. Once things started moving a little bit again, logistics and transportation issues cropped up.

So bikes and components are in short supply and prices are up everywhere, not just Austria, and it's going to take a few years to shake out. Sorry.

(BTW, I still think Dahon needs to do a much better job in the EU and NA of developing a stocking dealer network of shops that know the product.)




P.S. No, I'm not in the industry. I read several industry blogs & web pages, though.

stelpa

Yes that is totally true!

But, on the other hand, if it was just out of stock, it would say so....
but it seems that Dahons were hard to get in Europe before that already. When I read about Dahons in Europe there are a lot of complaints. spare parts are difficult to get, if you have troubles nobody cares, nobody knows which model with which specification should be available at all so no one knows if it is worth searching for it etc...

as concerning the tension: of course it's also because of tech English... but I basically didn't understand anything So I just hope that's not the case with my future Dahon...


oh, I might add: my way to the train is only about 2km. so it's not far but still it should be comfortable to fold and carry along. the train normally is not crowded
I would also go grocery shopping and such.... I think the furthest way would be around 6km... if at all...

mlau

I'm a bottom feeder, and bought all my bikes used.

If you have a mechanic friend, I'd recommend getting a used bike and having them work on it.

In an ideal world where prices don't matter, Brompton or Birdy would be ideal. In a non-ideal world, I'd say to go with whatever makes you happy.

Whatever you choose, post a picture and enjoy the ride!

stelpa

hi thanks

Unfortunately I don't have such friends. Some might help me with adjusting the breaks but like really work on it... no...
Unfortunately one person who had a used dahon online doesn't reply.
And the used Bromptons are so expensive that I don't take the risk.
But I'll keep searching

N2deep

I owned a Tern Link 7 and enjoyed the bike although I was surprised at the its heavy weight. I think the weight of the bike you choose should be a major consideration, especially for a folding bike as the purpose is to allow you to fold and store the bike yet it weighs twice as much as a good road bike, go figure that one. I know price point is important but I have to believe there is a lighter alternative out there someplace.

Fentuz

it s not very difficult and everything is on youtube. BUT it requires some specific tools. Although most are inexpensive, it tends to stop people.

reading the thread, i still think you need a mariner. Use it for a bit and then if you link, go for some mods.
If mariner does not float your boat, go for something with 8 speed on derailleur as they are simpler to upgrade, maintain. 8 speeds allow cheaper upgrade up to 10. 7 is much more expensive to upgrade.

hubs are nice but, when you get a puncture, you need to take everything off and then when putting it back together, you need to reajust the mech (was the case for my eatly dahon curve d3).

After owning 5 dahons, dahon MU P8 or helios p8 or vitesse or speed p8 are top of my choice..

that said, if super compact is not an issue, i would go dahon dash p18.

stelpa

Yes, I was surprised too.
weight IS important! But you can only hope that the specs are correct. I also thought of the fabric bike... but it comes naked. I don't know about mudguards.
and it doesn't have magnets or anything... so it is not suitable for taking in the train