The silent type
05-02-21, 03:42 PM
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My neighbour bought an electric Audi SUV. It sounds like a muted jet plane.
He told me his SUV has exterior "speakers" so it doesn't run silent as per design/regulations(?)
He told me his SUV has exterior "speakers" so it doesn't run silent as per design/regulations(?)
05-02-21, 04:21 PM
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Road surface and background noise go a long way towards determining vote far in advance you hear s car coming. Being aware of the situation is best.
05-02-21, 04:53 PM
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...If the driver has his eyes off the road and is heading towards the shoulder at 45 and the cyclist is doing 15, with a couple of second closing speed and a relative distance of 50 feet, can a cyclist actually get off the shoulder and into a ditch in time? What are the chances that the cyclist is not monitoring their device at that time?...
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05-02-21, 06:22 PM
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I know this statement will be controversial, but what the H. Have often wondered how effective a rear view mirror or radar or sensors are at actually preventing a collision between an inattentive driver and a cyclist. If the driver has his eyes off the road and is heading towards the shoulder at 45 and the cyclist is doing 15, with a couple of second closing speed and a relative distance of 50 feet, can a cyclist actually get off the shoulder and into a ditch in time? What are the chances that the cyclist is not monitoring their device at that time?
I used a mirror when I first started cycling because to be honest, I was inexperienced and fearful of being hit. After, in all likelihood of 100,000 miles, I have yet been run down from the back which means, TO ME, that the odds are relatively small of that event occurring. That’s the way my brain works is looking at the odds of an event and the risk versus reward. Can I get off the road fast enough when a vehicle bearing down on me at 3 to 4 times my speed heads towards me? Personally I doubt it, especially if they go off the shoulder too.
I can hear the rebuttals, of why not take every precaution, why not be safe than sorry, I just feel better, but I would rather relax rather than constantly be monitoring that there is a remote chance. Cycling is inherently risky and I accept that risk, remembering that I like my odds.
The only time I would fine a mirror handy is on a couple of rural roads that are so rutted and broken up that the only comfortable place to ride is the center of the lane and it would give me time to see oncoming cars, so I can get over, rather than looking over my shoulder every 10 seconds.
So how many can definitively state their life has been saved by a mirror, radar, or what have you?. My sample size is one, so please educate me. Or does peace of mind over rule the odds?
I used a mirror when I first started cycling because to be honest, I was inexperienced and fearful of being hit. After, in all likelihood of 100,000 miles, I have yet been run down from the back which means, TO ME, that the odds are relatively small of that event occurring. That’s the way my brain works is looking at the odds of an event and the risk versus reward. Can I get off the road fast enough when a vehicle bearing down on me at 3 to 4 times my speed heads towards me? Personally I doubt it, especially if they go off the shoulder too.
I can hear the rebuttals, of why not take every precaution, why not be safe than sorry, I just feel better, but I would rather relax rather than constantly be monitoring that there is a remote chance. Cycling is inherently risky and I accept that risk, remembering that I like my odds.
The only time I would fine a mirror handy is on a couple of rural roads that are so rutted and broken up that the only comfortable place to ride is the center of the lane and it would give me time to see oncoming cars, so I can get over, rather than looking over my shoulder every 10 seconds.
So how many can definitively state their life has been saved by a mirror, radar, or what have you?. My sample size is one, so please educate me. Or does peace of mind over rule the odds?
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05-02-21, 06:34 PM
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Silent cars should have to be equipped with bells.
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05-02-21, 06:36 PM
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wait until the E MUBs [Electric Multi-Use Boats] are in full swing.
One minute you're cycling down the coastal bike-shared lane all by yourself... Next you know a silent massive Evergiven rolls out from the water & drafts you as you enter a tough climb.
One minute you're cycling down the coastal bike-shared lane all by yourself... Next you know a silent massive Evergiven rolls out from the water & drafts you as you enter a tough climb.
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05-02-21, 06:38 PM
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05-02-21, 07:36 PM
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05-02-21, 07:42 PM
#34
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I got a Garmin Varia last month, and I really like it. It alerts me to approaching cars before I can hear them and gives me an idea of the distance and closing speed. I can use that information to time when I pass a slower cyclist, or move over to the straight or left turn lane. It doesn't replace looking over my shoulder, but rather augments it. If it has one weakness, it's that it only shows vehicles with some closing speed, so if a car pulls up behind you and then goes at the same speed as you it will disappear from the display. But that's what eyes and ears are for.
I have yet to experience a silent car. IME Teslas have pretty damn noisy tires.
I have yet to experience a silent car. IME Teslas have pretty damn noisy tires.
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05-02-21, 08:02 PM
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i can expect hoverboards being a bigger concern.
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05-03-21, 05:16 AM
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So you ride with your head turned watching the car the whole time you know it’s behind you? That’s got to be quite a skill. Most people would wreck because they aren’t then watching in front of them and would drift left or over adjust and drift right and hit the curb or something stopped in the road or debris or a pothole or goodness knows what.
05-03-21, 05:35 AM
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05-03-21, 05:42 AM
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Unless a car is accelerating, or an older model, or a diesel, with most modern gasoline powered cars I hear the tires on the road well before I hear the engine - often I don't notice the engine noise at all, since the tire noise is so much louder. I don't see a huge difference with electric vehicles, since they generate as much tire noise. Maybe it's my age, though, and to others the engine noise is more noticeable.
05-03-21, 05:55 AM
#39
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Indeed; the closest I've come to being hit by one is a couple times walking through a parking lot and they sneak up on me. My fault though because I probably had my head down because it was raining or my hair was in my eyes, etc.
05-03-21, 06:22 AM
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I want to know where exactly in the lane the cars are, and if they are shifting position and/or slowing down. That's why I constantly monitor my mirror.
If I was ever hit or had a close call from behind and didn't see it coming I'd consider that a failure on my part.
If I was ever hit or had a close call from behind and didn't see it coming I'd consider that a failure on my part.
I know this statement will be controversial, but what the H. Have often wondered how effective a rear view mirror or radar or sensors are at actually preventing a collision between an inattentive driver and a cyclist. If the driver has his eyes off the road and is heading towards the shoulder at 45 and the cyclist is doing 15, with a couple of second closing speed and a relative distance of 50 feet, can a cyclist actually get off the shoulder and into a ditch in time? What are the chances that the cyclist is not monitoring their device at that time?
I used a mirror when I first started cycling because to be honest, I was inexperienced and fearful of being hit. After, in all likelihood of 100,000 miles, I have yet been run down from the back which means, TO ME, that the odds are relatively small of that event occurring. That’s the way my brain works is looking at the odds of an event and the risk versus reward. Can I get off the road fast enough when a vehicle bearing down on me at 3 to 4 times my speed heads towards me? Personally I doubt it, especially if they go off the shoulder too.
I can hear the rebuttals, of why not take every precaution, why not be safe than sorry, I just feel better, but I would rather relax rather than constantly be monitoring that there is a remote chance. Cycling is inherently risky and I accept that risk, remembering that I like my odds.
The only time I would fine a mirror handy is on a couple of rural roads that are so rutted and broken up that the only comfortable place to ride is the center of the lane and it would give me time to see oncoming cars, so I can get over, rather than looking over my shoulder every 10 seconds.
So how many can definitively state their life has been saved by a mirror, radar, or what have you?. My sample size is one, so please educate me. Or does peace of mind over rule the odds?
I used a mirror when I first started cycling because to be honest, I was inexperienced and fearful of being hit. After, in all likelihood of 100,000 miles, I have yet been run down from the back which means, TO ME, that the odds are relatively small of that event occurring. That’s the way my brain works is looking at the odds of an event and the risk versus reward. Can I get off the road fast enough when a vehicle bearing down on me at 3 to 4 times my speed heads towards me? Personally I doubt it, especially if they go off the shoulder too.
I can hear the rebuttals, of why not take every precaution, why not be safe than sorry, I just feel better, but I would rather relax rather than constantly be monitoring that there is a remote chance. Cycling is inherently risky and I accept that risk, remembering that I like my odds.
The only time I would fine a mirror handy is on a couple of rural roads that are so rutted and broken up that the only comfortable place to ride is the center of the lane and it would give me time to see oncoming cars, so I can get over, rather than looking over my shoulder every 10 seconds.
So how many can definitively state their life has been saved by a mirror, radar, or what have you?. My sample size is one, so please educate me. Or does peace of mind over rule the odds?
On the other hand, there are a couple of other reasons to wear a mirror that have not been mentioned. First, I've found that, as I age, my balance is not as good as it once was, and turning my head to check traffic causes me to veer more from a straight line than I did in the past. Using a mirror allows me to shift my eyes without turning my head, which is much less disruptive to my balance. Also it's quicker to shift my eyes for a half a second than to turn my whole head and then turn it back when I need to see behind me, so my attention is where it needs to be more.
I agree that a mirror is practically useless in preventing the proverbial hit-from-behind. I, at least, am regularly passed very closely by vehicles and I don't think that I, personally, could distinguish the 12" difference between "close" and "hit" in an inch square piece of mirror glanced at for a fraction of a second several seconds before the pass.
05-03-21, 06:28 AM
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A radar is not a replacement for looking, but it's a game changer if you're not a mirror person.
One thing I would buy now if it existed in a bike specific pre-packed and easy to use setup is instead of a mirror they integrate a camera into the Varia radar that then displays the car that is behind you on to a more stem area gps size display. The mirror is good, but you're needing to replace a bar end plug and it is very dependent on what you want to see being where the mirror can see it. A rear facing camera where a radar blinker light would sit would see everything back there.
And having crashed in the past with some face damage, I am not putting a mirror mechanism on a helmet near my face. No way.
One thing I would buy now if it existed in a bike specific pre-packed and easy to use setup is instead of a mirror they integrate a camera into the Varia radar that then displays the car that is behind you on to a more stem area gps size display. The mirror is good, but you're needing to replace a bar end plug and it is very dependent on what you want to see being where the mirror can see it. A rear facing camera where a radar blinker light would sit would see everything back there.
And having crashed in the past with some face damage, I am not putting a mirror mechanism on a helmet near my face. No way.
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05-03-21, 06:44 AM
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05-03-21, 07:16 AM
#43
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I agree with rsbob more than AlmostTrick - I find it necessary to remind myself sometimes to concentrate more on what's in front of me than behind, so I don't agree with "constantly monitoring" a mirror. Mirrors are for quick glances when necessary (turning/changing lanes, to see how many cars are coming from behind when you hear one approaching, to get a rough estimate of how close the vehicle may pass, etc.), not for constant attention, and they should not take your focus from the road in front of you for more than a second (usually less) IMHO. And sometimes, even with a mirror, it is still necessary to turn your head when you need a wider/farther view (preparing to cross multiple lanes of high-speed traffic, for example).
On the other hand, there are a couple of other reasons to wear a mirror that have not been mentioned. First, I've found that, as I age, my balance is not as good as it once was, and turning my head to check traffic causes me to veer more from a straight line than I did in the past. Using a mirror allows me to shift my eyes without turning my head, which is much less disruptive to my balance. Also it's quicker to shift my eyes for a half a second than to turn my whole head and then turn it back when I need to see behind me, so my attention is where it needs to be more.
I agree that a mirror is practically useless in preventing the proverbial hit-from-behind. I, at least, am regularly passed very closely by vehicles and I don't think that I, personally, could distinguish the 12" difference between "close" and "hit" in an inch square piece of mirror glanced at for a fraction of a second several seconds before the pass.
On the other hand, there are a couple of other reasons to wear a mirror that have not been mentioned. First, I've found that, as I age, my balance is not as good as it once was, and turning my head to check traffic causes me to veer more from a straight line than I did in the past. Using a mirror allows me to shift my eyes without turning my head, which is much less disruptive to my balance. Also it's quicker to shift my eyes for a half a second than to turn my whole head and then turn it back when I need to see behind me, so my attention is where it needs to be more.
I agree that a mirror is practically useless in preventing the proverbial hit-from-behind. I, at least, am regularly passed very closely by vehicles and I don't think that I, personally, could distinguish the 12" difference between "close" and "hit" in an inch square piece of mirror glanced at for a fraction of a second several seconds before the pass.
If you hug the edge allowing drivers to pass close, then yeah, it's going to be difficult to tell a 12 inch buzz from a clip. But imagine for a second you ride in the lane. Now every overtaking driver will either move left, slow to your speed, or run into you. In this situation is is quite easy to tell when the rare driver is not taking you into account... Without ever turning your head more than a few degrees.
It was only when I decided to ride to work on busy and higher speed roads (15 years ago) that I decided to give a mirror a try. After a brief acclimation period I found it very useful and comforting. I'm fine if others don't feel the same way in their situations.
05-03-21, 07:50 AM
#44
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In Toronto, we have what I remember being said about it, the biggest highway or maybe the biggest one that runs through town, whatever, it probably is not true anymore but it is a big highway anyway. And the noise coming from it is mainly from the car tires, not their engines. There are housing neighborhoods surrounding it and even with those walls keeping the noise down, if you live within about a mile of it, you hear an incessant hum from it 24/7 but people living there are used to it, they don't hear it anymore.
Rolls Royce manufacturer made quite some effort to silence their tires in their quest for silent ride. If a RR comes up behind you, you have less chance hearing it on your bike than with other cars.
On a bike, when I ride at the very edge of paved surface, I don't look behind me even when I hear a menacing big truck sound since I don't have any margin left on my right side. I just concentrate on keeping my line straight in case there is a sudden sideways wind draft as the vehicle passes. It is only when you leave some healthy margin of the paved surface to your right that it makes any sense to look back at all (to have reserve in case you drift sideways when head turning and also to move over if you see a car behind you). I can ride for miles with only ~ 2-3" of pavement left on my right side, also sometimes for fun I ride on the white line to see how long I can stay on it before wearing off.
Rolls Royce manufacturer made quite some effort to silence their tires in their quest for silent ride. If a RR comes up behind you, you have less chance hearing it on your bike than with other cars.
On a bike, when I ride at the very edge of paved surface, I don't look behind me even when I hear a menacing big truck sound since I don't have any margin left on my right side. I just concentrate on keeping my line straight in case there is a sudden sideways wind draft as the vehicle passes. It is only when you leave some healthy margin of the paved surface to your right that it makes any sense to look back at all (to have reserve in case you drift sideways when head turning and also to move over if you see a car behind you). I can ride for miles with only ~ 2-3" of pavement left on my right side, also sometimes for fun I ride on the white line to see how long I can stay on it before wearing off.
Last edited by vane171; 05-03-21 at 09:13 AM.
05-03-21, 07:53 AM
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Good thing they had a long driveway. I could generally see him coming. Needless to say, I kept close watch as I rode by.
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05-10-21, 10:59 AM
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I took a short ride today about five miles while I was riding I got this thought it may become an issue maybe not , I was thinking about how while riding you can hear and pretty much know what's coming up behind you by the sound cars and trucks make , well do you all think that once there's a significant e-cars on the streets of May present a problem for cyclists ? Just an observation ......
Nicely, with cars even the e-vehicles still run on tires, and those puppies make a deal of noise on most pavement. And, so far, with e-bikes and other smaller vehicles, most of them seem to be rather noisier than a regular bicycle.
But if things keep getting quieter, the surrounds noisier, and the prevalence of people with earphones greater, it'll likely become less safe for the average rider out there.
Hearing what's nearby is a good thing.
05-10-21, 02:44 PM
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Well I must be getting deaf or something. I can't hardly every hear vehicles coming from behind because of wind noise. I do wear a mirror and am always checking. There's a lot of Tesla's out on the local roads now and they aren't any different than any other car. I either see them in my mirror or out of the corner of my eye as they pass by like pretty much every other car. I gave up on trying to hear cars years ago and ride with ear buds most of the time now. Still alive....
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05-10-21, 02:48 PM
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without anything over or in the ear, all I hear is wind noise. The minute I use something with the ear impeded, the wind noise is a lot less & I don't end up with a throbbing ear pain. Less of a shock from the random "honks" right beside me while riding with the ear blocked by a device.
Eye protection & ear protection serve a positive value to my riding needs.
Eye protection & ear protection serve a positive value to my riding needs.
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