I find it amazing what advertising can condition people to accept
08-19-20, 02:51 PM
#51
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 15,487
Bikes: 2015 Workswell 066, 2017 Workswell 093, 2014 Dawes Sheila, 1983 Cannondale 500, 1984 Raleigh Olympian, 2007 Cannondale Rize 4, 2017 Fuji Sportif 1 LE
Mentioned: 144 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7651 Post(s)
Liked 3,473 Times
in
1,834 Posts
We are going to need some stupider and more provocative digressions if this thread is ever going to reach ten pages.
08-19-20, 02:52 PM
#52
Old fart
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Posts: 24,784
Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.
Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3587 Post(s)
Liked 3,400 Times
in
1,934 Posts
I you read any of the famous cycling books from the 80s and before, they call any bike frame butt welded low class junk. But in the nearly 40 years since then advertising has conditioned cyclist to accept butt welded frames instead of beautiful lugged and low temp brazed frames. The simple reason for that is that now computers run robot welding machines, and frame mfg can make more money that way. Robots can churn out butt welded frames 24 hours a day.
N.B. FWIW, all my bikes are handmade, lugged or fillet brazed because that's what I like, not because they're intrinsically better than modern production bikes.
Likes For JohnDThompson:
08-19-20, 03:09 PM
#53
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 15,487
Bikes: 2015 Workswell 066, 2017 Workswell 093, 2014 Dawes Sheila, 1983 Cannondale 500, 1984 Raleigh Olympian, 2007 Cannondale Rize 4, 2017 Fuji Sportif 1 LE
Mentioned: 144 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7651 Post(s)
Liked 3,473 Times
in
1,834 Posts
The '80s? Forty short years ago? Try 80 Millennia ago. That is when things were real.
Yeah, it takes a long time to chip a bike out of flint but that bike will be hard as rock. All these new-fangled materials ... .... flint has served humanity well for hundreds of thousands of years. Can steel make that claim?
Yeah, it takes a long time to chip a bike out of flint but that bike will be hard as rock. All these new-fangled materials ... .... flint has served humanity well for hundreds of thousands of years. Can steel make that claim?
Likes For Maelochs:
Likes For Just Mark:
08-19-20, 03:44 PM
#55
Klaatu..Verata..Necktie?
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 17,952
Bikes: Litespeed Ultimate, Ultegra; Canyon Endurace, 105; Battaglin MAX, Chorus; Bianchi 928 Veloce; Ritchey Road Logic, Dura Ace; Cannondale R500 RX100; Schwinn Circuit, Sante; Lotus Supreme, Dura Ace
Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10421 Post(s)
Liked 11,882 Times
in
6,088 Posts
You could at least be grateful, ya little pisher.
__________________
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."
"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."
"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles
08-19-20, 03:59 PM
#56
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Southwestern Ontario
Posts: 5,124
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1581 Post(s)
Liked 1,189 Times
in
605 Posts
I dont disagree that they can be applicable. They are overused at this point. The saturation point was exceeded long ago and I chuckle at those who use both too liberally now. At this point its gone meta, actually- laughing at someone who references something that is overused in their attempt to make fun of someone else for how they are thinking.
Passe, but I guess these will be around until the collective finds new ways to describe groups of people.
Ooh, whats a fun name for someone who uses overdone pop culture meme phrases?
Passe, but I guess these will be around until the collective finds new ways to describe groups of people.
Ooh, whats a fun name for someone who uses overdone pop culture meme phrases?
Perfect example: the individual trolling this thread with o/t interpolations of his (gender presumed) rather jejeune socio-political observations.
08-19-20, 04:26 PM
#57
Banned
And there's all those places, Links, you give up on going , because you leave your add blocker on..
08-19-20, 04:43 PM
#58
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 7,872
Mentioned: 38 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6958 Post(s)
Liked 10,959 Times
in
4,686 Posts
08-19-20, 04:57 PM
#59
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 3,842
Bikes: Trek Domane SL6 Gen 3, Soma Fog Cutter, Focus Mares AL, Detroit Bikes Sparrow FG, Volae Team, Nimbus MUni
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 896 Post(s)
Liked 2,062 Times
in
1,080 Posts
About the only good thing to come out if my experience living in Texas was the phrase "all y'all".
If I just say "y'all need to go ride your bikes", each of you can look around and say to yourself "he's not talking to ME, he's talking to them."
But when I say "all y'all need to go ride your bikes", there's no escape the meaning. All y'all is inclusive, and in this case, called for.
If I just say "y'all need to go ride your bikes", each of you can look around and say to yourself "he's not talking to ME, he's talking to them."
But when I say "all y'all need to go ride your bikes", there's no escape the meaning. All y'all is inclusive, and in this case, called for.
08-19-20, 05:00 PM
#60
Senior Member
I can see you're not a boilermaker or pipefitter welding to ASME high pressure codes. In those trades extremely high quality butt welds are made on various steel alloys, often with a heli arc root and stick out. A good weld is as strong as the base. Welded bike frames are aces with me.
Likes For boilermaker1:
08-19-20, 05:21 PM
#62
On Your Left
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Long Island, New York, USA
Posts: 8,373
Bikes: Trek Emonda SLR, Sram eTap, Zipp 303
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3004 Post(s)
Liked 2,433 Times
in
1,187 Posts
I was at a LBS and saw one hanging on the wall. I asked if I could take it down to get a closer look. The sales person asked if I wanted to take it for a ride... it was his bike. I did and rode it around a rather large parking lot for 10 minutes. When I returned he said "why back so soon". So I took it for a 10 mile ride, it's an awesome bike. But I already have an expensive bike and didn't need another.
Likes For GlennR:
08-19-20, 06:02 PM
#63
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 15,487
Bikes: 2015 Workswell 066, 2017 Workswell 093, 2014 Dawes Sheila, 1983 Cannondale 500, 1984 Raleigh Olympian, 2007 Cannondale Rize 4, 2017 Fuji Sportif 1 LE
Mentioned: 144 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7651 Post(s)
Liked 3,473 Times
in
1,834 Posts
Likes For Maelochs:
08-19-20, 06:08 PM
#64
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,659
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1248 Post(s)
Liked 1,323 Times
in
674 Posts
[QUOTE=JohnDThompson;21649921]There's more than that to account for it. Both TIG welding (whether or not automated/robotic) and metallurgy have improved dramatically in the past 20 years. The manufacturing methods of modern welded frames were simply not possible in the 1980s and earlier.
N.B. FWIW, all my bikes are handmade, lugged or fillet brazed because that's what I like, not because they're intrinsically better than modern production bikes.[/QUOTE]
Hate to feed the thread starter but the comment about your preferences in bike materials is the most rational statement these forums have seen for a while.
N.B. FWIW, all my bikes are handmade, lugged or fillet brazed because that's what I like, not because they're intrinsically better than modern production bikes.[/QUOTE]
Hate to feed the thread starter but the comment about your preferences in bike materials is the most rational statement these forums have seen for a while.
08-19-20, 06:12 PM
#65
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 39,232
Mentioned: 211 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18409 Post(s)
Liked 15,525 Times
in
7,325 Posts
Likes For indyfabz:
08-19-20, 06:16 PM
#66
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 39,232
Mentioned: 211 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18409 Post(s)
Liked 15,525 Times
in
7,325 Posts
08-19-20, 06:20 PM
#67
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 39,232
Mentioned: 211 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18409 Post(s)
Liked 15,525 Times
in
7,325 Posts
Thank god for this thread. I’m on day one of a three day tour and my book is boring.
08-19-20, 06:28 PM
#68
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,392
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1561 Post(s)
Liked 1,734 Times
in
974 Posts
I hate to be a pedant, but 'butt welding' means joining two pieces of metal end-to-end.
So for example- a welded rim can be said to be butt-welded. The frame, on the other hand, is not butt welded. It's closer to a T-joint or corner joint.
And it's not true that lugless frames were looked down on. This was the top of the line Miyata in 1982:
All lugless, with aero shaped steel tubing.
So for example- a welded rim can be said to be butt-welded. The frame, on the other hand, is not butt welded. It's closer to a T-joint or corner joint.
And it's not true that lugless frames were looked down on. This was the top of the line Miyata in 1982:
All lugless, with aero shaped steel tubing.
Likes For icemilkcoffee:
08-19-20, 07:26 PM
#69
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 7,872
Mentioned: 38 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6958 Post(s)
Liked 10,959 Times
in
4,686 Posts
And it's not true that lugless frames were looked down on. This was the top of the line Miyata in 1982:
All lugless, with aero shaped steel tubing.[/QUOTE]
I think that's fillet brazing, which - to me eyes - is prettier than lugs.
But I'm more of a 'form over function' person. My oldest tig-welded frame is 17+ yrs and 40k+ miles, and still going strong. No problem with that.
All lugless, with aero shaped steel tubing.[/QUOTE]
I think that's fillet brazing, which - to me eyes - is prettier than lugs.
But I'm more of a 'form over function' person. My oldest tig-welded frame is 17+ yrs and 40k+ miles, and still going strong. No problem with that.
08-19-20, 08:26 PM
#70
Senior Member
Gears were a great idea. 7...8...even 9 cogs in the back. Sure. Then 10, then 11, then 12...maybe they have 20 in the rear now? I don't look at new bikes too often. But at some point, **** gets ridiculous and offers little practical benefit.
08-19-20, 08:37 PM
#71
SE Wis
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 10,509
Bikes: '68 Raleigh Sprite, '02 Raleigh C500, '84 Raleigh Gran Prix, '91 Trek 400, 2013 Novara Randonee, 1990 Trek 970
Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2744 Post(s)
Liked 3,390 Times
in
2,053 Posts
Somehow you guys missed disc brakes, tubeless, and thru axles. You're slipping
Likes For dedhed:
08-19-20, 08:51 PM
#72
I think I know nothing.
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: NE PA
Posts: 709
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 233 Post(s)
Liked 290 Times
in
204 Posts
I can see you're not a boilermaker or pipefitter welding to ASME high pressure codes. In those trades extremely high quality butt welds are made on various steel alloys, often with a heli arc root and stick out. A good weld is as strong as the base. Welded bike frames are aces with me.
Likes For Thomas15:
08-19-20, 09:56 PM
#73
Tortoise Wins by a Hare!
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Looney Tunes, IL
Posts: 7,398
Bikes: Wabi Special FG, Raleigh Roper, Nashbar AL-1, Miyata One Hundred, '70 Schwinn Lemonator and More!!
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1549 Post(s)
Liked 941 Times
in
504 Posts
Lugs and TRIPLE BUTTED for the win!
Likes For AlmostTrick: