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Why can't we lease bicycles ?

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Why can't we lease bicycles ?

Old 07-12-22, 05:14 AM
  #101  
livedarklions
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Originally Posted by CheGiantForLife
Why are people talking about daily bike rentals?
I am talking about a mutli-year lease.
Because it demonstrates the economic problem well. You're talking about "importing" the automobile leasing system into the bicycle market. Essentially, there is virtually no bike leasing system in the US to compare to the operation of the car leasing, so it makes sense to look at an arrangement that is used for both cars and bikes.
Leasing a bike only makes sense if it is considerably cheaper than buying the bike on credit. The smaller price for bicycles and the fact that the administrative costs are probably similar between a car and bike lease means that anyone offering a lease on a bike is going to have a much smaller profit margin to play with. Also, leasing out a car will also provide the company offering the lease with a significant payout at the end when the car is sold while the used bike isn't going to be worth anywhere near its purchase price. This same dynamic operates for car rentals as well--car rental companies are huge used car dealers. I doubt there's any bike rental entity that's making a significant amount of its revenue from selling the used rental bikes.

You asked the question, you obviously don't understand much of the answers. That's on you.

You understand that starting a bike leasing company like this is going to involve a pretty big capital investment?

You just posted that everyone knows leasing is "stoopid". If everyone knows that, what makes you think you should be able to get them to lease from you?

Last edited by livedarklions; 07-12-22 at 05:17 AM.
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Old 07-12-22, 06:02 AM
  #102  
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Originally Posted by CheGiantForLife
Why are people talking about daily bike rentals?
I am talking about a mutli-year lease.
If you're talking about a multi-year lease on a bicycle, would it not make more sense to finance said bike, therefore, you actually own the bike?
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Old 07-12-22, 06:54 AM
  #103  
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Originally Posted by Outrider1
If you're talking about a multi-year lease on a bicycle, would it not make more sense to finance said bike, therefore, you actually own the bike?
That's where the relatively low cost of the item comes in. The monthly payment on the financed amount over a few years is not going to be any higher than the probable lease payment.
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Old 07-12-22, 07:34 AM
  #104  
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not all leases are 0$ down, so to put a down payment on a bicycle might really reduce the desirable rate of leasing.

If I were to lease out my bicycle, it'd likely require 1/2 of its value as a min down payment, maximum monthly % rate using a payment plan to pay the bicycle debt off well before the lease would expire.
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Old 07-13-22, 07:02 AM
  #105  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
Leasing a bike only makes sense if it is considerably cheaper than buying the bike on credit.
Also, leasing out a car will also provide the company offering the lease with a significant payout at the end when the car is sold while the used bike isn't going to be worth anywhere near its purchase price.
Yes, just like a car lease. Leasing a bike will cost less than buying it on credit.
Of course the bike is worth less than the car. The numbers will reflect that.

Price is irrelevant.
I can lease you a $700 cell phone.
I start with projected value after 3 years, let's say $250
Then I work the monthly numbers around that, to recoup my $450 and give me whatever target annual APY for my risk. Say $30/mo.

Originally Posted by Outrider1
If you're talking about a multi-year lease on a bicycle, would it not make more sense to finance said bike, therefore, you actually own the bike?
The same could be said about car leases.
Yet, car leases are a thing.

Originally Posted by Troul
not all leases are 0$ down, so to put a down payment on a bicycle might really reduce the desirable rate of leasing.
.
The same could be said about car leases.
Yet, car leases are a thing.
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Old 07-13-22, 07:20 AM
  #106  
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Originally Posted by CheGiantForLife
Yes, just like a car lease. Leasing a bike will cost less than buying it on credit.
Of course the bike is worth less than the car. The numbers will reflect that.

Price is irrelevant.
I can lease you a $700 cell phone.
I start with projected value after 3 years, let's say $250
Then I work the monthly numbers around that, to recoup my $450 and give me whatever target annual APY for my risk. Say $30/mo.



The same could be said about car leases.
Yet, car leases are a thing.



The same could be said about car leases.
Yet, car leases are a thing.
So stop yapping and get to work. Let us know when you've got your fleet ready.
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Old 07-13-22, 07:25 AM
  #107  
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Originally Posted by CheGiantForLife
Yes, just like a car lease. Leasing a bike will cost less than buying it on credit.
What makes you so sure that this would be true? How do you know that it is possible to lease for that little and still make a profit?
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Old 07-13-22, 09:00 AM
  #108  
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Originally Posted by CheGiantForLife
Yes, just like a car lease. Leasing a bike will cost less than buying it on credit.
The monthly payments for a car lease are less.

https://www.moneygeek.com/auto-loans/loan-vs-lease/

Most car buyers can drive their cars for several years after the last car payment. But if you continually lease, the payments never stop. Walters says that leasing several cars over the years is almost always more expensive than buying a car. "If you had bought, you'd be closer to the end of your car payments, instead of starting over," he says.
Originally Posted by CheGiantForLife
The same could be said about car leases.
Yet, car leases are a thing.
The used car market is a thing too. The used bicycle market is much, much less organized and robust.

Put another way, the ability to easily sell the car after the lease is an essential part of the car leasing business. (The used car market exists even without leasing.)

A lease needs to provide a profit over the depreciation of the object. Cars have a large residual value. Bicycles, overall, don't. Thus, the cost of a bicycle lease is going to have to cover most of the full cost of a bicycle (definitely not required for cars).

Last edited by njkayaker; 07-13-22 at 09:10 AM.
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Old 07-13-22, 09:18 AM
  #109  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi
So stop yapping and get to work. Let us know when you've got your fleet ready.
+1. There's clearly a lot of "stupid money" being left on the table, so go get it @CheGiantForLife!
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Old 07-13-22, 10:25 AM
  #110  
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Didn't get a chance to read most replies, but what I did seemed correct. I will add, sorry if this is already explained this way, that items that are normally 'leased' are items that commonly have a known depreciation and tangible value as used items, even if damaged. Bicycles are different from cars in this way - if you lease a Pinarello Dogma and the frame snaps in a crash and one of the Campy S Record shifters gets broken, the total value of what remains, or of what would become of the bike after repairs are made, would not be the same ballpark as a car that was crashed and repaired. Furthermore, repairs, along with safety and road worthiness requirements on cars are generally standardized, while bike repairs are often done by a 'shade-tree' or other unregulated/non-standardized service provider - not that that's necessarily bad, but it's not secure enough for financial institutions to think it's a good investment.
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Old 07-13-22, 10:57 AM
  #111  
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott
+1. There's clearly a lot of "stupid money" being left on the table, so go get it @CheGiantForLife!
I'm betting he'll start a bike leasing company for the sole purpose of leasing bikes to himself. A real win-win scenario for him.
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Old 07-13-22, 10:57 AM
  #112  
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Originally Posted by ClydeClydeson
Didn't get a chance to read most replies, but what I did seemed correct. I will add, sorry if this is already explained this way, that items that are normally 'leased' are items that commonly have a known depreciation and tangible value as used items,...
Yes (I said this multiple times).

A big part of the car lease business is the used car business. There really is not appreciable used bike business.

Originally Posted by ClydeClydeson
Bicycles are different from cars in this way - if you lease a Pinarello Dogma and the frame snaps in a crash and one of the Campy S Record shifters gets broken, the total value of what remains, or of what would become of the bike after repairs are made, would not be the same ballpark as a car that was crashed and repaired. Furthermore, repairs, along with safety and road worthiness requirements on cars are generally standardized, while bike repairs are often done by a 'shade-tree' or other unregulated/non-standardized service provider - not that that's necessarily bad, but it's not secure enough for financial institutions to think it's a good investment.
No, it's not any of this. A "snapped frame" is a "totaled" car. A "broken Campy S Record shifters" gets replaced and no value is lost. Used cars have a common reputation for being high risk.
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Old 07-13-22, 11:55 AM
  #113  
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Originally Posted by CheGiantForLife
Yes, just like a car lease. Leasing a bike will cost less than buying it on credit.
Of course the bike is worth less than the car. The numbers will reflect that.

Price is irrelevant.
I can lease you a $700 cell phone.
I start with projected value after 3 years, let's say $250
Then I work the monthly numbers around that, to recoup my $450 and give me whatever target annual APY for my risk. Say $30/mo.



The same could be said about car leases.
Yet, car leases are a thing.



The same could be said about car leases.
Yet, car leases are a thing.
Cell phone leases tie you into a cell service contract. Ridiculous example.

I don't think you can make the numbers work. Quit just asserting and prove me wrong.
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Old 07-13-22, 01:56 PM
  #114  
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott
+1. There's clearly a lot of "stupid money" being left on the table, so go get it @CheGiantForLife!
Yep, clearly big money to be made, so many folks out there stupider than Che.
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Old 07-13-22, 04:43 PM
  #115  
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It’s only the middle of July, but this mess has my vote for dumbest thread of the year. But if anyone can top it it’s the OP. No one seems to be willing to put an end to this sort of thing.
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Old 07-13-22, 04:50 PM
  #116  
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I've made tons of money leasing bibs.
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Old 07-13-22, 05:15 PM
  #117  
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^^^ Expand your offerings to include Depends for the Dementa-Bent crowd.
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Old 07-13-22, 05:59 PM
  #118  
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Originally Posted by wolfchild
I've made tons of money leasing bibs.
I buy mine at $400 a pop.
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Old 07-14-22, 10:07 AM
  #119  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
Cell phone leases tie you into a cell service contract. Ridiculous example.
I don't think you can make the numbers work. Quit just asserting and prove me wrong.
$1000 cell phone.
I lease it out for $40/mo for 3 years.
That's $1440 in payments.
Residual value after 3 years is $250.
I sell phone for $250
Total is $1690.
Annual Rate of Return is 19%

Finance 101
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Old 07-14-22, 10:17 AM
  #120  
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Originally Posted by CheGiantForLife
$1000 cell phone.
I lease it out for $40/mo for 3 years.
That's $1440 in payments.
Residual value after 3 years is $250.
I sell phone for $250
Total is $1690.
Annual Rate of Return is 19%

Finance 101


Why would anybody pay $1690 when they could pay $750?

$1000 iPhone purchased (not leased) at $28/month over 3 years. This leaves the owner with a phone worth $250 after 3 years.

https://www.verizon.com/business/pro...-iphone-13-pro

Last edited by njkayaker; 07-14-22 at 10:21 AM.
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Old 07-14-22, 10:21 AM
  #121  
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Originally Posted by CheGiantForLife
Disclaimer: I do not lease, I pay cash, but is there a biz oppty here?
Originally Posted by CheGiantForLife
$1000 cell phone.
I lease it out for $40/mo for 3 years.
Hmmm...

John
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Old 07-14-22, 10:26 AM
  #122  
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Originally Posted by 70sSanO
Hmmm...
There is no "gotcha" here. He wants to make money off over-priced leasing but doesn't want/need to lease for himself.
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Old 07-14-22, 10:56 AM
  #123  
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Originally Posted by njkayaker
There is no "gotcha" here. He wants to make money off over-priced leasing but doesn't want/need to lease for himself.
Sorry. I guess I misinterpreted the phrase "I do not lease." Silly me.

John
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Old 07-14-22, 12:09 PM
  #124  
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Originally Posted by 70sSanO
Hmmm...
I think when he wrote, "I lease it out..." he was stating a hypothetical to illustrate his point.
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Old 07-14-22, 12:18 PM
  #125  
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Originally Posted by smd4
I think when he wrote, "I lease it out..." he was stating a hypothetical to illustrate his point.
I think you're right.

I always thought Finance 101 was never discuss your business plans on a public forum.

John
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