edwong3

I find it sad to see posts like like the one below. I mean, really? Unlike a few years back, one can now find decent bikes, folders or otherwise in the $300, $400 range.

I'm going to stop here because I do not want to step on any toes.

I say buy what you can realistically afford and enjoy the ride.

Peace out.
EW

Diode100

The danger of hanging around a single topic forum, any single topic forum, is that there is a tendency to loose the wider perspective.

BikeLite

Arrogance knows no boundaries.

tudorowen1

I have to disagree with the original poster.....Cheap folders can be great..I have a Bike Friday NWT , Phillips (Dahon) 8 speed chromoly folder and a Brompton S6L...all great bikes ..But I keep an old Ridgeback Rendezvous in Thailand for when I come for the winter..This is an old steel 6 speed folding bike made inder licence from Dahon in Macau..I bought it for $25 USD off ebay..£20 GBP..This bike was about £250 new approx 350 USD.. have added a good saddle,alloy brake levers and a good quality chain..It is a fabulous folding bike..more comfortable than a Brompton because of the fatter tyres..The roads around the village in Thailand where we stay are all potholes,sand and gravel and the bike copes with everything ..Last week I rode it 300 kilometres down the coast loaded with 2 panniers and a rucksack..

12boy

Why does one bike cost more than another? Perhaps it is an icon which is overpriced as some seem to think Bromptons and Moultons are. Perhaps it's because the components are lighter and more durable and work better together. Maybe it is supported by better guarantees and parts availability or because that particular frame design has not yet been copied. I think, however, that if a less expensive bike is well maintained and parts are replaced with better as they wear out, less isn't all that bad. It also allows you to learn about bikes and how to maintain them. I rode thousands of miles on a '75 Witcomb Superlight that had a fussy derailleur and required lots of attention to BB, headset and wheel bearings. I loved that bike but it was a lot more trouble to keep up than a far cheaper bike today with cartridge bearings. Those parts were available then but insanely expensive. Things seem to be getting better now at lower prices and that is a good thing.

linberl

Doesn't seem to me to matter that much if it is a cheap folder, as long as the frame is decent. Because it seems like everyone gets the upgrade bug and that cheap folder ends up being at least middle grade or better. Don't think I have ever had a bike where I did not change out the components over time. And I suppose I could have bought a very high end bike with perfect components from the beginning, but where is the fun in that???? Upgrade-itis is an itch you have to scratch; I would have just ended up making swaps that were minimal improvements instead of big ones. Looking at the threads here on BF, folder folks LOVE messing with their bikes. Not as much fun if the bike starts out perfect ;-).

12boy

Besides the lust to make it stronger/lighter/more beautiful etc it often happens you find new purposes and needs as you go along...your commute changes, you need to carry more or less stuff, you now want to try extended rides or touring or keep up with faster bikes, the list is endless. Or you just want to try a change for its own sake. Anyway tinkering is an absorbing pasttime as anyone reading this forum will see.

Rick Imby

My history---I spent 30+ years owning a shop and fixing bicycles. We were a family shop and worked on everything from Wallyworld bikes to lots of full suspension mtn bikes.

I do not like to have to upgrade my bike. If the bike has great components to begin with, you are not rebuying stuff which is way more expensive. Normally the parts you take off your inexpensive bike are not saleable.

The difference between a $300 bike and a $800 is HUGE. Especially if both of them are good values.

I don't understand people who have 30k+ into their boats (for 3 weekends use per year) or spend 5k+ on downhill skiing in a year or spend $500 on a couple of Football tickets not understanding that there is so much difference as you go up in price on a bicycle.

In this forum in the mountain bike section most people will say you need to spend at least $2500 to get started with a full suspension bike. Tri Bikes---2k plus Road bikes 2k plus.

The other issue that always comes up when you are upgrading--will it fit? Hub widths and frame clearance.

My point is I think a lot of people who buy the basic 7 speed $300 folding bike and ride it think it is kinda fun. Put them on an $800 folder and they are going to say WOW this is more fun than my $1500 road bike. Quality makes a huge difference.

I know some of you will disagree, no problem. I really like this part of this forum. I have learned a lot about folders.

Rick Imby

Speaking of tinkering with bikes... I have had employees that loved working on their own bikes. I have had a couple that spent more time and money building their bikes than they did riding.

Other people would much rather spend their time riding. I would much rather ride than tinker.. We are all different.

linberl

That's what days with really bad weather are for....give you time to tinker

invisiblehand

I didn't read anything wildly negative in Rick's post since he has an important caveat. If one is going to spend a glob of bucks on a regular bike, then one probably cares more than the average person.

I do think that the premise overlooks utility bikes. There are a lot of easily replaceable "good enough" bikes that one would prefer to use in a lot of situations.

mconlonx

I don't know why anyone who knows enough to buy a $2500 mtn or road bike, would not consider a $800+ folding bike. Knowledge would not be a issue -- they should be well-versed on the quality/price payoff where bikes are concerned.

But if they decide to get a Dahon Boardwalk 1sp for $300, or a sub-$300 Downtube, or any of a number of other cheaper folding bikes, I'm going to assume that they made an informed choice about the matter.

It could be that it was just for one specific trip, or limited time period and they simply did not want to make a bigger investment, knowing full well the quality trade-off. Or maybe they wanted that n+1 bike to be a folder, where n=15...

FInish4Finn

One should note that upgrading a bike or buying a less expensive bike doesn't mean more maintenance. Every rider should know how to replace a chain, grease the barrings and clean the bike after a ride. I wonder how many actually do that and go as far as hitting it with a few gusts from the compressor with the final wipe down. After a 40 mile commute to and from college I don't see any difference in maintaining one's bike whether it be my folding bike or road bike. It would be no difference between a higher price folding bike and a inexpensive one. Simply take care of your bike and you will get what you put into it. Never have I ever gone into a sale of a bike and said, "I'm going to buy this $5000 30th Anniversary Dahon bicycle because it will require less maintenance over that guy's entry level." It's obsurd. It will still rust if you leave it out in the rain.

linberl

FWIW, I have found some less expensive rear derailleurs to be more finicky and require more frequent adjustment. Same thing with cheap disc brakes. I haven't seen the parts fail more than high end parts but maybe the tolerances aren't as well designed or something. A tourney RD is not going to be as consistent as a dura-ace, for example.
I agree that basic maintenance is something you have to do on any bike that you ride but with low end parts you will likely fiddle with your drivetrain more often.

12boy

I would have to disagree, at least as far as cartridge bearings in headsets, bottom brackets, wheels and pedals are concerned. Tires, chains and frames are different, of course.

Auclan

The only bad folding bikes I've read about failing (frames snapping), are rather expensive ones (Terns) and a couple of models the West Marine store sold. I've not read anything about cheaper folding bikes (Citizen, Origami, Downtube, etc) having hinge failures. If you know of any bad brands that are dangerous to ride, please inform. Until then, I have nothing at all against cheap folding bikes and feel that it's better to have a cheap folding bike than no folding bike at all.

wilfried

I few years ago I started riding to work on a Brompton. This piqued a coworker's interested, and she started asking me about folding bikes. I knew she wasn't going to drop the cash for anything high end, so based on stuff I saw here on the forum, I suggested she check out an Origami. She ordered one for a bit under $400. I think it has served her well. She's ridden it to work regularly over the last two or three years, and she seems happy with it. Just as the high end Brompton opened a whole new world of transportation and cycling pleasure for me (though I got it for a good price second hand), the low end Origami did the same for her. She even went on to drop a lot more money on a cargo bike to transport her kids.

So, this friend not only let a friend buy a cheap folding bike, he encouraged her to, and I think it worked out quite well. It got her onto a bicycle, which wouldn't have happened if she had to drop a lot more money just to get started, and she's still riding it. I really don't think she cares about gear ratios or weight for her relatively short and flat commute, or the quality of the wheels and tires, as long as they get her from here to there. I am the sort who does care about some of those things, and has the cash to spend on it, but not everybody is, or needs to be. I think the OP's bike snobbery is a bit misguided, and could keep some people from riding bicycles who otherwise might.

FInish4Finn

Yeah, I went with the dura-ace. Before, the bike had a fixie. I changed out to something road worthy and slapped on that rear deraileur and a proper 10 speed cassette. Never had a chain drop. I kept the chain a 10 speed and there's been no problem. Funny, the rear deraileur was easier to mount than the ultegra compact crankset off my old road bike that had had to retire due to a cracked frame. I did make my own RD bracket because it was a forked design in the back. I had the parts, tap and bridgeport on hand. But, it went on easy. And set up was fine. If anything it was the litepro FD brazed-on hanger that needed tweeking and proper positioning. Never mounted that type of hardware on a folding bike. Different, but same principles. Keep it all road bike parts and you won't get any chain drop. No mix and match stuff down there. Make the decisive upgrades. Still looking for decals to liven up the black paint and deciding which alloy I should use to replace the nickle plated steel bracket I made to shave off weight and anodize blue. Machining, it's a fun trade...

Rick Imby

---that is kinda nasty... when both opinions are valid.


No matter how much most people make they spend it all and a little more. Often the difference between a $400 bike and an $800 is one less purse or dress that rarely get worn. I like to spend my money on things I enjoy and use. Why didn't you find her a nice used bike for $400 that would work a ton better?

To me there is a huge difference between a 400 and 800 bike.

I spent a lot of time in my life working on cheap walmart level junk (like most the under $400 folding bikes). I would not recommend it to anyone. Yup Bike snobbery.

I have seen so many people turned off to biking because they bought a "good enough for me" piece of junk, not have any fun on it and leave it in the back yard or garage forever unused. So many people are always buying cheap stuff that turns to junk quickly.

The other question I have is "Would she have become more of an active cyclist and enjoyed it even more if she had stepped up to a lighter, faster, better working bike."

keyven

I dispute this - you can't claim to know if biking fanatics in Spain or Sri Lanka or Taiwan do not care for folders.

It may be true in your region, but Asia LOVES folders - and we have far more cyclists than the US.

While low end folders (as like any bike) are indeed usually employed for utility, there are MANY high end folders that are used by serious cyclists - touring, racing, XC, etc.

- Bromptons and BFs for touring
- Montague for XC
- Tyrells and Birdys for speed

All respectable and somewhat common throughout the world, even among "biking fanatics".

Diode100

I didn't say that bike fanatics don't care for folders, I said that the bulk of folders / small wheelers are not bought by bike fanatics, but by people looking for utilitarian transport. I still think that is correct. The annual production of the five high end brands you mention is going to be minuscule in comparison to the total worldwide production of folders / Small wheelers. And as for, let's say, Bike Fridays or Tyrell's being "somewhat common throughout the world", well I think that is somewhat baloney.

wphamilton

It may be a little insensitive to ask on this thread, but it seems on topic so ... if you were going to let your friend buy a cheap folding bike, which would it be? For just recreational use, a couple of times a year on business trips.

Diode100

That's the sort of question that might be usefully addressed on a folding bike form, but when it's been asked before it does seem to have a tendency to upset the purists. In truth I think it's a difficult question to answer in a global context because cheap bikes tend to be sold by local or national outlets and the same make / model is rarely available internationally. So it's a question that can probably only really be answered by riders in your home country with knowledge of what's on the market.

BikeLite

Define cheap first.

Rick Imby

Ok I will tell you the minimums I would look for in a friends inexpensive bike.

8 or more gears on the rear Cassette hub. Make sure it is a cassette hub and not a freewheel. This allows you to have a 2 tooth smaller high gear. One of the real limitation with small wheels is high gear.

Aluminum wheels

Aluminum frame---not a necessity but usually a couple pounds lighter than a steel frame.

20" wheels, either 406 or 451. I prefer 406 because of more tires available.

The advantage to 16" wheels is the package can be smaller but 20" will usually have much wider gearing.

Derailler gearing, not Internal Geared Hub (IGH)--IGH are usually more expensive without as wide of gearing and the IGH is heavier and usually pretty expensive. Others here will disagree and they are right for their own uses.

I would do regular pedals and have a pedal wrench along---I don't like folding pedals.

I like having adjustable handlebar height also---not a necessity.

Dahon makes pretty good stuff and good stuff with prices all over the map.

Really nice bike for the money---not cheap
Dahon MU SL11 20" Folding Bike, Brushed/Red Shimano 105 Shifter and Derailleur | eBay

I know the guy will take $560 for this bike---great value

Dahon Mu D10 20" Folding Bicycle, Brushed Alum/Red with Video 10 Sp Tiagra Shift | eBay

While I love the Look of a one speed, I need gears and I want a high one and low one...