horatio 

Bianchigirll 

Hanging the bikes on a scale or if your Professional Rider you might notice the difference. I don't have a lot of recent experience with SL and my only ALLE frame is crimped. But from recollections the ride quality of my ALLE bike was very similar to my Bianchi wif their Formula 2 tubing, which is allegedly TreTubi SL and whatever.

Despite what we want to think and definitely pontificate about I suspect in a blind study many of wouldn't feel the difference between a Alle, SL, CroMor or Oria frame of similar quality.

verktyg 

1978 Columbus Tubing Specs


1983 Aelle Specs



Columbus started making Aelle R with butted 3 main tubes and later a lighter version of Aelle tubing.

Original Aelle sticker



Butted Aelle R sticker



"Stiffer, noodly, just depends" Those questions are not particularly relevant to the type of steel a particular tubing is made of. They are more a function of geometry, frame size and so on.

Aside from tubing diameter, the wall thickness is a big determinate affecting stiffness.

The reason for using higher strength steels is to make thinner tubes that weigh less and can provide a livelier feel.

Answering your questions opens a can of worms that I don't want to get into. Other members will jump in and address those issues.

verktyg

easyupbug 

Just depends, have you read this:Magnificent 7

Bianchigirll 

Interesting facts No? But I believe he asked for you opinion yes? (please read this with your worst French accent)

T-Mar

Tange Mangalloy, Ishiwata Magny and Reynolds 501 weren't released until several years after Aelle. I believe Aelle was created in direct response to Falck and plain gauge Reynolds 531.

When the 1970s bicycle boom arrived, Columbus was the dominant supplier of tubing for high end Italian models. However, they were not as well regarded outside Italy and did not have a mid-range tubeset. The Italian mid-range market was dominated by another Italian tubing manufacturer, Falck. Throughout the boom, there was more than enough business to go around and both companies prospered, even expanding capacity to meet demand.

However, when the boom went bust in 1975 profits plummeted and there was a lot of unused capacity. The low volume, high end, Italian manufacturers, who had been Columbus' prime market, looked to maintain cash flow by expanding product lines downwards, into the mid-range market. This would increase Falck's prestige and market share, to Columbus' detriment.

The introduction of Aelle effectively terminated Falck's courting of the high end, low volume builders in Italy. It was easier and more cost effective for these small companies to deal with a single tubing vendor, especially one with whom they had already established a working relationship. In effect, Aelle allowed Columbus to retain its status as then #1 Italian tubing manufacturer.

The other major factor in introducing Aelle, was the competition from Reynolds. During the early 1970s boom, English language publications touted Reynolds 531 as the world's best bicycle tubing. This was largely accepted as fact as, with the exception of Italian builders, the vast majority of European, high end bicycles used Reynolds 531. It was only reinforced by the fact that some prestigious Italian builders, such as Cinelli and Masi, offered Reynolds 531 models.

Reynolds also offered a broader product range. There was plain gauge 531 used on lower mid-range models like the Raleigh Super Course and several Falcon models. Reynolds cemented its status as World #1 with the 1976 introduction of Reynolds 531 SL and 753, the world's lightest tubesets.

Undoubtedly, Reynold's reputation gnawed at Columbus. A lot of big races that appeared to have been won on Reynolds were actually rebranded frames that had been manufactured in Italy using Columbus tubesets, but the public didn't know that. Columbus's introduced several new tubesets circa 1978. Aelle was a direct shot at Reynolds 531 plain gauge. Columbus KL was meant to compete with 531SL and 753. Columbus would eventually go one better than Reynolds, introducing hi-tensile Zeta for upper, entry level models. For me, there is little doubt that Columbus was trying to wrestle the market share from Reynolds.

Undoubtedly, there was a major shift to Columbus in the very late 1970s and early 1980s. Much of this was due to the expanded product range but it also had to do with the education of the American cyclist caused by a fundamental shift in the market towards smaller, more upscale brands.

When the boom crashed, a lot of the mass volume manufacturers exited the USA market or set-up their owner distribution to maintain profit margins by cutting out the middleman. Many domestic importers disappeared, while those that remained and new ones looked for more exclusive brands. This often meant smaller brands, that previously had little American exposure.

At the same time, many cyclists remaining in the sport were looking to upgrade and wanting something more exotic than a Peugeot PX10 or Raleigh Professional. In addition to the Cinelli, Colango and Masi of the boom era, the distribution shakeup had brought a lot of smaller Italian marques to greater prominence, with names like Benotto, Ciocc, Guerciotti, Olmo, Pinarello and Tommasini.

With the market shift came magazine coverage of these marques, which helped build Columbus' reputation. To top it off, word started filtering through that a lot of pro riders actually rode rebranded Italian frames with Columbus tubing. And of course, cycling idol Eddy Mercx was now building his own frames, using Columbus tubing. The American public was realizing that Columbus was just as good as Reynolds.

As public opinion shifted, the mass volumes manufacturers followed, in an attempt not to lose market share. I maintain this is why many French manufacturers switched to Columbus.

Bianchigirll 

I seriously need to work on giving longer answers!

Road Fan

Yes, according to Magnificent 7, it produced a good-riding bicycle.

Jon said Aelle was 0.8 mm wall thickness. Reynolds straight gauge (531 steel) wall thickness was 1.0 mm. Stiffness of the Aelle was 36% less than for Reynolds straight gauge, as used in the first generation of the Super Course. No idea of the comparison between finished bicycles of Aelle and Reynolds straight.

Road Fan

Yes, the person who says "yes" with the most words wins!

T-Mar

Now, back to the OP's question. Columbus Aelle was a good, mid-range, plain gauge tubeset for its era, in direct competition with Falck plain gauge, Reynolds 531 plain gauge and Vitus 888, While it is heavier than most butted tubesets, it is not necessarily a worse ride. Many factors affect the ride characteristics of a frame, the most notable being geometry. However, all things being equal other than the tubeset, Aelle theoretically offers a stiffer ride with less shock absorption. Whether or not riders will be able to detect this, is another matter. In my experience, the weight and price advantage were the big factors, influencing most Aelle buyers. Aelle bicycles offered a notable weight reduction over the hi-tensile frame that most were upgrading from, at a reasonable price increase. The weight saving to price increase ratio to step up to SL wasn't justifiable in their opinion.

horatio 

Many thanks for all the replies. Recently saw a Ciocc with Aelle tubing. Got me to wondering. There's a good chance my rusty old Ciocc has Aelle tubing. Stickers were long gone. How can one tell straight gauge tubing?

uncle uncle

My Aelle tubed Oschner bicycle felt noticeably stiffer than the manganese spiced steel of my previous ride, a Puch Pathfinder AD (made with Puch blended 2800 tubing). I bought the Pathfinder AD on the recommendation of a fellow rider/friend, who said that Reynolds 531 tubing used manganese (instead of chromoly) in their steel, to juice it up. So, it made some sense to me to give another, similar spiced mix of steel, a go. The Oschner was stiffer, but it also beat me up more, and thus made long rides less enjoyable (and maybe harder to convince myself to take). Like many design choices, there are always trade offs. So, my path to an Aelle spec'ed bicycle was just as T-Mar mapped out; I wanted something more upscale, but a real superbike was out of the question for the college going me back then. I think we all tend to pontificate the virtues of whatever we end up buying/riding, for the most part. I myself, I want to ride as many bicycles as I can, and experience and enjoy them all, for their good and bad points, as cornball as that may sound.

repechage

T-Mar

Reynolds 531 plain gauge main tubes were available in several gauges, including 0.8mm wall thickness, identical to Aelle.

Nessism

All other things held equal a straight gauge frame will be stiffer and heavier than a butted frame. For larger frames or for strong guys this may well be a positive. Considered this way Aelle sort of fits between SL and SP (and similar thickness Reynolds, etc). Nothing wrong with that. For a smaller frame I might hedge more; if the smaller rider is less strong the extra weight and unnecessary stiffness would be a negative.

fietsbob

Used it in building my DIY frame in 1975, bike is still fine to this day .
I built a Light touring bike not a race bike ..

I brazed it together , Used Lugs at the joints.

If the seat tube is butted, that's a thinner top & thicker bottom , straight gage is uniform throughout..

0.9 mm wall x 2 = 1.8 // 28.6 -1.8 = 26.8 , so seat post is 26.8* not 27.2..
* I Have a 26.8 seatpost in it.

and there is the plink with your thumbnail,test, does it sound different in the center?






.....
...

horatio 

OK. I understand butted tubes are thinner in the middles. Kinda hard to see with the nekked eye, though. The plinking I can do!

My Ciocc takes a 27.2 seat post, so it's probably SL tubing.

SurferRosa

As an aside, Ryffranck says EL oversize nivacrom tubing is the best columbus made.

kcblair

Yep, My Ciocc is Aelle , Seat tube 26,8 and still has original sticker. Bought off the shelf in Germany. To me, ride quality has always been good.KB

horatio 

kcblair

I also have a custom made Concorde, with Columbus Cromor. To me, both bikes have a great ride quality . But, that ride quality came from SA leather saddle and moving from 23mm to 25mm wide tires. The article referenced above, Magnificent 7, was good reading. KB

Trakhak

My Bianchi Eco Pista that I bought in 1982 was Aelle tubing. Maybe my favorite of all of the steel bikes I've owned, which have included a Columbus SL/SP Bianchi Specialissima and several Reynolds 531 bikes (Raleigh Professional, Atala Professional, Schwinn Paramount, Helyett Speciale, Raleigh International, etc.). That Aelle Eco Pista was something special.

Bianchigirll 

Great video and fabulous Gentleman. I've never ridden one but I think I may agree with him on the EL OS tubing although I would likely prefer the Mini MAX tubing derived from that tubeset.

Road Fan

Ok, tx!

Road Fan

I have nowhere near the depth and background of M. Ryffranck, but I have an ELOS Mondonico, and it is a great bike with a great ride.

I've never had an Aelle bike. I'm in the middle of rebuilding a 1952 Rudge Aero Special (same as 1952 Raleigh Super Lenton) with straight gauge Reynolds 531, and I can report on that when I'm done. But it is VERY different in weight and geometry, from my more modern 2005 Mondonico.