terrymorse 

About that Sand Hill/280 bit. I’ve found that a look back over my left shoulder almost always gets the overtaking driver to slow and let me over. Something that a radar beepie doodad doesn’t accomplish.

Gadgets are great, but Never underestimate the power of “the look”.

genejockey 

Yes indeedy! I use the Varia to tell me when to give The Look. Like, if I see a stream of cars on the radar, I'll roll down the hill a bit slower, knowing that the lights on Sand Hill makes the traffic "clumpy".

And, yeah - the look, and the arm generally work very well.

WhyFi

The Varia gives you the relative position of approaching vehicles; not only do I use that info to know when to vacate a lane (if/when prudent), but I also use that info to know the best time to give drivers "the look."

prj71

Clothing isn't the issue. I'd rather not deal with a breakdown at those temps and have to try and fix whatever is broken with frozen fingers/hands or have to walk 5 miles through the woods back to the trailhead. More of a safety precaution on my part than anything else.

prj71

Correct. Expressing an opinion. Having ownership of both more expensive ones and cheaper ones...I don't think it is worth it. That's not saying that anyone has to agree with me.

prj71

LOL. You have some issues. Never called anyone dumb. Never said I am magnificent competitor. That's your head movie...not mine.

rsbob 

Koyote

Umm, yeah, we're back to these mythical "high-end, top of the line" jerseys that they give away as event freebies. Right.

livedarklions

Uhh, so you agree you're expressing an opinion about people, and go on to explain you own expensive people and cheaper ones?

Are you playing dumb? I don't think anyone is objecting to you having an opinion that x is not worth it, it's your statements about people who do think x is worth it that are the issue. My post could not have been more clear on this point.

We get it, you like dumb arguments.

prj71

Oh goodness. You guys.

livedarklions

You realize that this whole argument is caused because you can't admit you shouldn't have said "I can't believe people....", right?

livedarklions

Well, considering this is at least the second thread where you've pulled the exact same crap, if the flip flop fits...

Mojo31

This is running like the threads involving bing 1.

Maelochs

Took me a few to realize you might be talking 10 degrees centigrade.

I don't know though .... Finland and snow .... not much snow at 10 C.

10F is a pretty challenging scenario sometimes ..... I suppose if you don't stop and don;'t stay outside after riding long enough to cool off you can get away with a little .....

greysquirrel

What I find works even better is sticking my hand and arm out.

Koyote

Yeah, it's weird. If you got stuck in a conversation with someone like bing or prj71 at a party, you'd try to get away from that person ASAP. But online, they're the **** that attracts flies.

Vern1

Ya think

Although you guys have spent almost 20 pages saying the same thing over and over again

Dude you have far more patience than I do

Ghazmh

Wow this thread is still going. The OP was banned days ago.

elcruxio

10C is still summer temps. 10F is what I assumed was being discussed.

WhyFi

I don't have one, but my club has a sizable fat bike contingent (they're still trying to get me to pick one up). Yeah, 10F is a non-issue; they go out in quite a bit colder. Hell, I go out on the road bike at 10F if the roads are free from snow/ice.

elcruxio

Man... I just can't relate at all.. Perhaps it's becuse I shuffle fatbike tire pressures during rides without freezing my hands (I have pretty expensive gloves) or because I've had catastrophic breakdowns mid ride and had to walk home. I think the distance was around 5 miles at the time. This one time a Schwalbe tire went weird in the cold and the tire just cracked all the way through. A brand new tire. Snapped a few chains etc (before I knew quick linka were a thing).

Walking sucks at every temp. But I consider 10 degrees to be safer than say, 86 degrees as in the cold dehydration won't become an issue. If the walk takes longer than the intended ride for example

Maelochs

I think people are saying that if the opinion you express is that other people are stupid, then you are just insulting people and trying to hide behind "That's my opinion."

Most of us have lived a long time and seen all the games people play .... and it always the ones who play the worst who think they are winning.

The whole point of your posts has been to tell people who do it differently than you that they are wrong. And obviously that is an opinion, and obviously it is you demeaning people, and obviously it is your opinion that people should be happy that you insult them for not being you ....

You could have expressed the opinion that you have found cheap gear to be perfectly suited to your needs without also trying to demean people who do not ... but you chose a different course. You could have explained your reasoning, without demeaning the differing reasons of others. That was not what you did.

I am not saying I agree with anyone or disagree with anyone in this thread, or approve or disapprove of any post or whatever ... it's the internet. But when we are trying to fool each other and lying to ourselves .... let's strive for a higher standard, shall we?

Maelochs

Some stuff where ....

Back when I lived in the frigid north, studded tires hadn't been invented. Mountain bikes were brand new, and we about one step up from balloon-tire Huffys and Schwinns. I tried repeatedly to ride in snow but frozen snow and black is and ice in general made it impractically unsafe. (Nowadays the gear is readily available, but I would never go back ...)

Since riding was out, I walked. So I know what it is like to walk in 10F or -7 F or whatever .... But if I were soaked in sweat and pushing a flat--tried fat bike that far .... I would need to wear cycling clothes and carry walking clothes because I couldn't count on walking to generate enough heat.

Sure, people do Antarctic exploration and all that .... but seat is a real issue at those temps. Sure, humans can survive at -80 .... but to me 10 F is cold enough not to be enough fun. At that temp I think it would be safer to walk because sweat would be so much less of an issue ---- and when I did walk in those temps, I wore a lot of layers and adjusted my clothing frequently to keep from sweating or freezing. So i guess if I were cycling i would have to do the same, and wear a really big pack.

Each to his own, but even at somewhat higher temps, with windchill and such, frostbite can be a real thing .... if you are generating a 15-20 mph wind with your passage you had best have good protection for face and extremities ....

Anyway ... I sometimes wonder where my life would be now if i could have bought studded tires fifty or so years ago.

elcruxio

I suppose the trick for me has always been not to be soaked in sweat when riding. The requirement for that of course is to have wicking layers, breathable shell and being cold when setting out. There have been times when I've had water bead up on the jacket outside surface but the inside has been fine. But yeah, one should't let it get to a point where warming layers are getting soaked.

Strangely even near -40 I've noticed I require very little in terms of layers as long as I have a good outer shell. XC ski clothing is pretty awesome for that. Less is more but it probably isn't be a bad idea to take a lightweight fleece for breaks / needing to huck it.

Extremity protection is key and that's where I put most of my efforts. If the extremities are covered and warm then the body can take care of itself (within reason). Though that reminds me of this one time I was climbing and had to take my gloves and hat off and even open my jacket as to not overheat. In the end I was riding gloveless bare headed with my jacket open in -30 celsius so I wouldn't overheat. I remember the temperature, because the absurdity of the situation made me check it out later.

JohnDThompson 

Yeah, but extremity protection can be a problem. I have a problem with Reynaud's Syndrome, which is exacerbated by cold. Catalytic hand and foot warmers help, but only somewhat. A couple hours is all I can tolerate before the Reynaud's hits, which can take many hours to resolve.

N.B. Been through Turku on my way to Leningrad, many years ago. Quite reminiscent of the landscape and climate just north of where I live.