Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Road Cycling
Reload this Page >

New GP5000 S TR coming soon

Notices
Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

New GP5000 S TR coming soon

Old 10-04-21, 04:35 PM
  #26  
smashndash
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,410

Bikes: 2017 Specialized Allez Sprint Comp

Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 850 Post(s)
Liked 344 Times in 247 Posts
Originally Posted by Sy Reene
Zipp says what is optimized for 25mm?


I didn't see any ad copy on the 404 page that has any similar language.
"This wheel is optimized for 25mm tubeless tires for all out speed. The 454 NSW features Zipp’s most advanced technologies."

Might just be the 454 then.

edit: "
The big change on this latest model of 404 wheels is the move to a wider, straight-side (meaning “hookless”) rim bed that’s optimized for 700x25mm tubeless tires. Unless you’re a bigger rider, by which Zipp means anyone over ~190lbs (~86kg), at which point they think you’ll be faster with a 28mm tire…either on the rear only, or both front and rear as the scale tips higher."

https://bikerumor.com/2021/06/23/rev...ctual-weights/

A 25mm tire on a 23mm rim (what I run) is freaking massive. I run 45-50psi in mine. A 28 on a 23mm rim is definitely overkill on smooth roads. At least for small guys like me

Last edited by smashndash; 10-04-21 at 04:40 PM.
smashndash is offline  
Old 10-04-21, 05:20 PM
  #27  
msu2001la
Senior Member
 
msu2001la's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Chicago, IL, USA
Posts: 2,870
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1455 Post(s)
Liked 1,477 Times in 867 Posts
Originally Posted by Sy Reene
Zipp says what is optimized for 25mm?

Per 303S description on sram's site: "The key innovation is in the 303 S Series’ rim design. Its 45mm rim depth is the same as its predecessor, the 302 Disc brake. But its rim width is 2mm wider, at 27mm, and its tire bed is a full 7mm wider, at 23mm. That rim platform is designed to be the fastest with a 28mm tire."

I didn't see any ad copy on the 404 page that has any similar language.

I believe the issue is ETRTO. An inflated 25mm tire on a wide rim would probably be about ideal (105% rule) inflated width from aero perspective on a 27mm width external rim. However, ETRTO is going to hamstring manufacturers by indicating that for a 23c rim, the minimum width tire you're "allowed" to run is a 28mm. For a hookless rim, to bring the internal width down to 21mm minimum (says ETRTO), but keeping the 27mm external, they'd need a thicker bead wall.
Yeah, I guess I didn't look at Zipp's website regarding the 404/454 and 25mm tire sizes, but media reviews have stated they're optimized for 25mm:
https://bikerumor.com/2021/06/22/new...a-lot-lighter/
https://www.bikeradar.com/news/zipp-404-wheel-range/

Are you saying ETRTO doesn't allow 25mm to be used on a 23mm internal rim width? There seem to be lots of reviews out there of Zipp's 23mm internal rims mentioning or using 25mm tires.
msu2001la is offline  
Old 10-04-21, 05:26 PM
  #28  
msu2001la
Senior Member
 
msu2001la's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Chicago, IL, USA
Posts: 2,870
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1455 Post(s)
Liked 1,477 Times in 867 Posts
Originally Posted by smashndash
"optimized for 28" does not inherently mean "slower with 25". It simply means they use a 28mm tire as a reference when tuning the shape. Narrower tires tend to dominate wider ones in aero tests. Ie anything that is optimal for 28s will be even better (or at least extremely similar) for 25s.
Yes, also worth noting that when Zipp says "optimized" they're talking about more than just aerodynamics. They use the term "total system efficiency" which takes into account vibration and rolling resistance.

Still, I'd be surprised to learn that 25s are faster than 28s on anything they're saying is "optimized" around 28s. 25s might be more aero, but might also have more rolling resistance and/or more vibration.
msu2001la is offline  
Old 10-04-21, 05:32 PM
  #29  
smashndash
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,410

Bikes: 2017 Specialized Allez Sprint Comp

Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 850 Post(s)
Liked 344 Times in 247 Posts
Originally Posted by msu2001la
Yes, also worth noting that when Zipp says "optimized" they're talking about more than just aerodynamics. They use the term "total system efficiency" which takes into account vibration and rolling resistance.

Still, I'd be surprised to learn that 25s are faster than 28s on anything they're saying is "optimized" around 28s. 25s might be more aero, but might also have more rolling resistance and/or more vibration.
Oh sure. I guess I'm only speaking from an aero perspective because RR differences on a steel drum between tire sizes have been shown to be negligible. BRR has a great article on this. A bigger tire is "faster" on a steel drum if you pump it up harder but pretty much the same at the same firmness. The only way a 28 is faster is if you can't achieve your optimal softness on 25s without pinching.

Ofc things might be slightly different IRL. But Zipp's marketing says they tested narrower tires at the same pressure and thus same contact patch size, which is nonsense.

IMO the only reason zipp is pushing wider tires is that they know tire manufacturers can't make TL tires that won't blow at the requisite higher pressures for narrow sizes on their cheaper hookless rims.

btw I'm not saying there is no benefit to large tires. The ability to run SUPER soft pressures and a larger, more square contact patch are all great things. But I don't think speed is a benefit of wider tires.

Last edited by smashndash; 10-04-21 at 05:38 PM.
smashndash is offline  
Old 10-04-21, 05:46 PM
  #30  
Sy Reene
Advocatus Diaboli
 
Sy Reene's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Wherever I am
Posts: 8,613

Bikes: Merlin Cyrene, Nashbar steel CX

Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4717 Post(s)
Liked 1,526 Times in 997 Posts
Originally Posted by msu2001la
Yeah, I guess I didn't look at Zipp's website regarding the 404/454 and 25mm tire sizes, but media reviews have stated they're optimized for 25mm:
https://bikerumor.com/2021/06/22/new...a-lot-lighter/
https://www.bikeradar.com/news/zipp-404-wheel-range/

Are you saying ETRTO doesn't allow 25mm to be used on a 23mm internal rim width? There seem to be lots of reviews out there of Zipp's 23mm internal rims mentioning or using 25mm tires.
Yeah, supposedly not ok per ETRTO -- but this is nothing new. People have ignored ETRTO for a long time.
As for what is officially "allowed", and getting a real read on what is ok, there's various differing info out there. eg.
Veloflex indicates an 18mm max internal width to run a 25mm tire hookless: https://www.veloflex.it/en/blog/post...-rims-coupling
Vittoria is similar: https://www.vittoria.com/ww/en/stori...rto-bike-tires

I typically refer to some charts that Mavic used to have up, but have taken down -- it marries both width compatibility with tire pressure, which makes sense. This would tell you that 21mm is the widest TSS(hookless) rim you can use for 25mm tires, but max of ~72psi.
eg
Sy Reene is offline  
Old 10-04-21, 08:22 PM
  #31  
msu2001la
Senior Member
 
msu2001la's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Chicago, IL, USA
Posts: 2,870
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1455 Post(s)
Liked 1,477 Times in 867 Posts
Originally Posted by Sy Reene
Yeah, supposedly not ok per ETRTO -- but this is nothing new. People have ignored ETRTO for a long time.
As for what is officially "allowed", and getting a real read on what is ok, there's various differing info out there. eg.
Veloflex indicates an 18mm max internal width to run a 25mm tire hookless: https://www.veloflex.it/en/blog/post...-rims-coupling
Vittoria is similar: https://www.vittoria.com/ww/en/stori...rto-bike-tires

I typically refer to some charts that Mavic used to have up, but have taken down -- it marries both width compatibility with tire pressure, which makes sense. This would tell you that 21mm is the widest TSS(hookless) rim you can use for 25mm tires, but max of ~72psi.
eg
I'll agree that Zipp specifically doesn't say 25mm is ok on 23mm i.d. rims, but every review of the new Zipp 303S I can find mentions that it can be used with a 25mm tire. Zipps own tire pressure guide on this shows recommended pressures for 25mm tires.
msu2001la is offline  
Old 10-05-21, 05:53 AM
  #32  
Sy Reene
Advocatus Diaboli
 
Sy Reene's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Wherever I am
Posts: 8,613

Bikes: Merlin Cyrene, Nashbar steel CX

Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4717 Post(s)
Liked 1,526 Times in 997 Posts
Originally Posted by msu2001la
I'll agree that Zipp specifically doesn't say 25mm is ok on 23mm i.d. rims, but every review of the new Zipp 303S I can find mentions that it can be used with a 25mm tire. Zipps own tire pressure guide on this shows recommended pressures for 25mm tires.
Then perhaps they've just tested themselves and come away with determination that it's ok, though now they're just shying away from overtly contradicting ETRTO on their own site? For similar hookless dimensions but perhaps (?) a bit more safety margin with 25s, the enve 45s would perhaps make more sense. I think for many you'd also be fighting air pressure concerns trying to run 25s. Zipp's own tire pressure calculator errors-out for a 150lb rider with 20lb bike, meaning you also likely start choosing to inflate more than ETRTO also advises.

Then again, ETRTO doesn't make sense to me on air pressure maximums. As I understand it, they say 72psi is the max for hookless regardless of road tire width. This seems to go against the basic premise that narrower tires can be inflated moreso than wider tires since there's less volume. Not sure why the rules change for hookless.

Last edited by Sy Reene; 10-05-21 at 05:58 AM.
Sy Reene is offline  
Old 10-05-21, 05:56 AM
  #33  
WhyFi
Senior Member
 
WhyFi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: TC, MN
Posts: 39,505

Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo

Mentioned: 353 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20791 Post(s)
Liked 9,436 Times in 4,663 Posts
Originally Posted by msu2001la
I'll agree that Zipp specifically doesn't say 25mm is ok on 23mm i.d. rims, but every review of the new Zipp 303S I can find mentions that it can be used with a 25mm tire. Zipps own tire pressure guide on this shows recommended pressures for 25mm tires.
Yup, but more practically, who cares? Most people that buy these wheels or similar are doing so with the intent of running modern 28s or larger. Arguing about a hypothetical fringe use case is an exercise in futility (and very much a BF wintertime activity - we're not there, yet).
WhyFi is offline  
Likes For WhyFi:
Old 10-05-21, 08:00 AM
  #34  
msu2001la
Senior Member
 
msu2001la's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Chicago, IL, USA
Posts: 2,870
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1455 Post(s)
Liked 1,477 Times in 867 Posts
Originally Posted by Sy Reene
Then perhaps they've just tested themselves and come away with determination that it's ok, though now they're just shying away from overtly contradicting ETRTO on their own site? For similar hookless dimensions but perhaps (?) a bit more safety margin with 25s, the enve 45s would perhaps make more sense. I think for many you'd also be fighting air pressure concerns trying to run 25s. Zipp's own tire pressure calculator errors-out for a 150lb rider with 20lb bike, meaning you also likely start choosing to inflate more than ETRTO also advises.

Then again, ETRTO doesn't make sense to me on air pressure maximums. As I understand it, they say 72psi is the max for hookless regardless of road tire width. This seems to go against the basic premise that narrower tires can be inflated moreso than wider tires since there's less volume. Not sure why the rules change for hookless.
I guess I'm still confused by the contention that 25s are marginal on 23mm i.d. hookless rims. Every review I can find of the Zipp 404 Firecrest and 454 NSW (both 23mm i.d. hookless) talk about how they are optimized around 25mm tires, and they all run 25mm tires for the reivews. I assume Zipp is providing some guidance to cycling media on this topic when launching a new wheelset.

"The big change on this latest model of 404 wheels is the move to a wider, straight-side (meaning “hookless”) rim bed that’s optimized for 700x25mm tubeless tires. Unless you’re a bigger rider, by which Zipp means anyone over ~190lbs (~86kg), at which point they think you’ll be faster with a 28mm tire…either on the rear only, or both front and rear as the scale tips higher. (Check their tire pressure/size chart in the launch coverage)."
​​​​​​https://bikerumor.com/2021/06/23/rev...ctual-weights/


Speaking of aerodynamics, it’s worth noting that Zipp says the new 454 NSW and 404 Firecrest are both optimized for a 25 mm (printed width) tires, and if you abide by the “105% rule“, you won’t want to go any wider than 26 mm.
https://cyclingtips.com/2021/06/zipp...t-aero-wheels/

Zipp also specifically tested the 404 and 454 with a 25mm tire when developing their pressure recommendations, which are intended to provide the fastest possible setup:
“The tire pressures were set by the AXS tire pressure app,” said Zipp product manager Nathan Schickel. “Each wheel’s pressure was set according to the individual specs for the rider, wheel, and tire. Previous model 404 Firecrest and 454 NSW wheels are 19 mm internal hooked [and the rim-brake 454 NSW was 17 mm — Ed.] and the new wheels are 23 mm internal hookless. All wheels ran the Zipp RT25 tire. The older wheels were run at 77 psi front and 82 psi rear. The new wheels were run at 65 psi front and 69 psi rear, again the appropriate tire pressures for the given tire/rim system.”

Originally Posted by Sy Reene
ipp's own tire pressure calculator errors-out for a 150lb rider with 20lb bike, meaning you also likely start choosing to inflate more than ETRTO also advises.
We might be looking at different pressure calculators.
​​​​​​https://axs.sram.com/guides/tire/pressure

This shows 150lb rider on 20lb bike, with 23mm i.d. rims, 25mm tires, standard casings, road use = 63.4psi F/67.4psi R.
For a 180lb rider it shows 68.4psi F/ 72.7psi R.

A "thin" tire casing seems to require more psi. I'm assuming the GP5000 would be considered a "standard" tire casing? Not really sure on that.
msu2001la is offline  
Old 10-05-21, 08:08 AM
  #35  
msu2001la
Senior Member
 
msu2001la's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Chicago, IL, USA
Posts: 2,870
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1455 Post(s)
Liked 1,477 Times in 867 Posts
Originally Posted by WhyFi
Yup, but more practically, who cares? Most people that buy these wheels or similar are doing so with the intent of running modern 28s or larger. Arguing about a hypothetical fringe use case is an exercise in futility (and very much a BF wintertime activity - we're not there, yet).
Oh -sorry if my posts come across as argumentative - not my intent. You're correct that in practice I am not likely to ever run anything narrower than 28mm on my own 23mm i.d. hookless rims, so it's a non-factor for me. I mostly just want to try to understand the limitations and technology involved.
msu2001la is offline  
Old 10-05-21, 10:10 AM
  #36  
WhyFi
Senior Member
 
WhyFi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: TC, MN
Posts: 39,505

Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo

Mentioned: 353 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20791 Post(s)
Liked 9,436 Times in 4,663 Posts
Originally Posted by msu2001la
Oh -sorry if my posts come across as argumentative - not my intent. You're correct that in practice I am not likely to ever run anything narrower than 28mm on my own 23mm i.d. hookless rims, so it's a non-factor for me. I mostly just want to try to understand the limitations and technology involved.
Oh, no - not what I meant.

The easiest explanation is this: ETRTO recommendations have always been conservative. Go back a few years and look at recommendations for tire/rim combos for regular clinchers and you'll see that it was pretty routine for users to operate outside of the recommended parameters, 'specially once players like HED started widening rims. But yeah, practically speaking, it's less likely that users would want to use combos outside of what's currently recommended. If I wanted to run 25s on my 303S (I don't), and the calculated necessary pressures looked okay, I wouldn't be too ascared about it, though.
WhyFi is offline  
Likes For WhyFi:
Old 10-05-21, 11:52 AM
  #37  
Sy Reene
Advocatus Diaboli
 
Sy Reene's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Wherever I am
Posts: 8,613

Bikes: Merlin Cyrene, Nashbar steel CX

Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4717 Post(s)
Liked 1,526 Times in 997 Posts
Originally Posted by msu2001la

We might be looking at different pressure calculators.
​​​​​​https://axs.sram.com/guides/tire/pressure

This shows 150lb rider on 20lb bike, with 23mm i.d. rims, 25mm tires, standard casings, road use = 63.4psi F/67.4psi R.
For a 180lb rider it shows 68.4psi F/ 72.7psi R.

A "thin" tire casing seems to require more psi. I'm assuming the GP5000 would be considered a "standard" tire casing? Not really sure on that.
Yeah, I used "thin" -- I don't know what the distinction is, but generally folks always seem to talk about the top model in a brand's lineup for TL. If a GP5000s TR is standard, what's a thin?

Yeah, it's kinda kludgy the whole tire pressure thing. Like I said, I really don't understand what's magical about 72psi. If you want to be a 'modern' bike rider, you'll want to adopt both the latest aero and width advice. If a 28mm tire, your rim has to be 30mm external.

Looking at their tire chart, IMO it looks like they just took the 72psi, stuck it in the bottom left cell as a value, and then had to come up with a way for there to be a logical progression from there -- and it doesn't match up with their calculator.
Sy Reene is offline  
Likes For Sy Reene:
Old 10-05-21, 02:20 PM
  #38  
seypat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 8,758
Mentioned: 69 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3192 Post(s)
Liked 2,461 Times in 1,490 Posts
The tires under it in the pecking order might get cheaper also. Sweet!

Last edited by seypat; 10-06-21 at 12:23 PM.
seypat is offline  
Likes For seypat:
Old 10-14-21, 08:45 AM
  #39  
msu2001la
Senior Member
 
msu2001la's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Chicago, IL, USA
Posts: 2,870
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1455 Post(s)
Liked 1,477 Times in 867 Posts
Has anyone seen these for sale anywhere yet?
I was at a local shop yesterday and they hadn't gotten any yet and had no idea when they would. I don't see them available anywhere online.
msu2001la is offline  
Likes For msu2001la:
Old 10-14-21, 09:31 AM
  #40  
WhyFi
Senior Member
 
WhyFi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: TC, MN
Posts: 39,505

Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo

Mentioned: 353 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20791 Post(s)
Liked 9,436 Times in 4,663 Posts
Originally Posted by msu2001la
Has anyone seen these for sale anywhere yet?
I was at a local shop yesterday and they hadn't gotten any yet and had no idea when they would. I don't see them available anywhere online.
Someone on the forum posted pics of them mounted on their wheels the other day... I'll see if I can find it.

edit: https://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycl...l#post22266085

Last edited by WhyFi; 10-14-21 at 09:49 AM.
WhyFi is offline  
Old 10-14-21, 11:01 AM
  #41  
Rdmonster69
Shawn of the Dead
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 578
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 277 Post(s)
Liked 448 Times in 216 Posts
I just got a new Conti GP 5000TR to replace a bum HardCase Light on my Domane. The instructions specifically stated not to use on a hookless rim. Maybe they were an older model ? 700x32. Man they were tight AF to get on my wheel (carbon Bontrager Aeolus pro 3V). Lots of cussing and I even threw it to the floor in frustration but managed to stretch it on without tools just a little soapy water. Talk about forearm pump !!! Thinking maybe hitting the tire (if I buy one for the front) with a low temp heat gun and stretching it by standing on the tire and pulling a little? Is that a no-no ?
Rdmonster69 is offline  
Old 10-14-21, 11:44 AM
  #42  
WhyFi
Senior Member
 
WhyFi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: TC, MN
Posts: 39,505

Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo

Mentioned: 353 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20791 Post(s)
Liked 9,436 Times in 4,663 Posts
Originally Posted by Rdmonster69
I just got a new Conti GP 5000TR to replace a bum HardCase Light on my Domane. The instructions specifically stated not to use on a hookless rim. Maybe they were an older model ? 700x32. Man they were tight AF to get on my wheel (carbon Bontrager Aeolus pro 3V). Lots of cussing and I even threw it to the floor in frustration but managed to stretch it on without tools just a little soapy water. Talk about forearm pump !!! Thinking maybe hitting the tire (if I buy one for the front) with a low temp heat gun and stretching it by standing on the tire and pulling a little? Is that a no-no ?
Very little chance that you got a GP5KS TR - you almost certainly got a GP5K TL. The S TR is very new and is designed to be hookless compatible. The TL has been around for a couple of years and is *not* to be used hookless. The TL also has a reputation for being tight bastards, too.
WhyFi is offline  
Old 10-14-21, 12:14 PM
  #43  
msu2001la
Senior Member
 
msu2001la's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Chicago, IL, USA
Posts: 2,870
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1455 Post(s)
Liked 1,477 Times in 867 Posts
Can confirm the TL's are ridiculously tight on some rims.

Reports are that the S TR goes on a lot easier. This guy installs one on a Zipp 303S without levers. It goes on really easy, though he does have to use a boost tank to seat it:

WhyFi I can't tell from this video if the tire stays seated on deflation or not. It looks like he doesn't let all the air out at the end, so hard to tell.
msu2001la is offline  
Old 10-14-21, 12:34 PM
  #44  
Seattle Forrest
Senior Member
 
Seattle Forrest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 23,208
Mentioned: 89 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18883 Post(s)
Liked 10,645 Times in 6,054 Posts
Originally Posted by msu2001la
I'm not sure about that. It seems like there's little advantage for them to say it's aero with 28mm if it's actually more aero with 25mm. No one is riding either size on gravel.
I ride gravel on 28s.
Seattle Forrest is offline  
Old 10-14-21, 12:38 PM
  #45  
WhyFi
Senior Member
 
WhyFi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: TC, MN
Posts: 39,505

Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo

Mentioned: 353 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20791 Post(s)
Liked 9,436 Times in 4,663 Posts
Originally Posted by msu2001la
Can confirm the TL's are ridiculously tight on some rims.

Reports are that the S TR goes on a lot easier.
In theory, they should go on as easily as other tires made to the same spec. So far, I've used two such tires and they both were among the easiest that I've mounted.


Originally Posted by msu2001la
WhyFi I can't tell from this video if the tire stays seated on deflation or not. It looks like he doesn't let all the air out at the end, so hard to tell.
Yeah, and he hasn't answered that question, either. I guess it doesn't really matter too much right now, because a) I can't find them and b) I wouldn't pay anywhere near retail, but hopefully we'll find out soon.
WhyFi is offline  
Old 10-14-21, 03:58 PM
  #46  
tempocyclist
Senior Member
 
tempocyclist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: Australia
Posts: 815

Bikes: 2002 Trek 5200 (US POSTAL), 2020 Canyon Aeroad SL

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 310 Post(s)
Liked 664 Times in 324 Posts
Originally Posted by msu2001la
Can confirm the TL's are ridiculously tight on some rims.

Reports are that the S TR goes on a lot easier.

Yep another confirmation here! I'd been mounting GP4000S tyres with ease to all my rims for years. Got a set of GP5000's and man oh man where they a bugger to get on!
tempocyclist is offline  
Old 10-15-21, 05:12 AM
  #47  
Rdmonster69
Shawn of the Dead
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 578
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 277 Post(s)
Liked 448 Times in 216 Posts
Originally Posted by WhyFi
Very little chance that you got a GP5KS TR - you almost certainly got a GP5K TL. The S TR is very new and is designed to be hookless compatible. The TL has been around for a couple of years and is *not* to be used hookless. The TL also has a reputation for being tight bastards, too.
You are correct ......says TL right on the side ! Were sure nice to ride on. Mat get one for the front.
Rdmonster69 is offline  
Old 10-15-21, 09:37 AM
  #48  
smashndash
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,410

Bikes: 2017 Specialized Allez Sprint Comp

Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 850 Post(s)
Liked 344 Times in 247 Posts
https://www.bicyclerollingresistance...prix-5000-s-tr

Interesting. BRR measured the same-ish rolling resistance for a given pressure, but the tire has also gotten ~1.5mm smaller, which means you'd have to run it at a slightly higher pressure. So the tire is probably slightly faster. Maybe like 1 watt.

Jarno also mentions that the casing is stiffer. afaik the old gp5k wasn't exactly known to be supple (relative to other race tires) so this might not be great news.
smashndash is offline  
Old 10-15-21, 10:11 AM
  #49  
WhyFi
Senior Member
 
WhyFi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: TC, MN
Posts: 39,505

Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo

Mentioned: 353 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20791 Post(s)
Liked 9,436 Times in 4,663 Posts
Originally Posted by smashndash
https://www.bicyclerollingresistance...prix-5000-s-tr

Interesting. BRR measured the same-ish rolling resistance for a given pressure, but the tire has also gotten ~1.5mm smaller, which means you'd have to run it at a slightly higher pressure. So the tire is probably slightly faster. Maybe like 1 watt.

Jarno also mentions that the casing is stiffer. afaik the old gp5k wasn't exactly known to be supple (relative to other race tires) so this might not be great news.
So not the slam dunk many thought it would be.

Yeah, I'll be interested to hear riding impressions.
WhyFi is offline  
Old 10-15-21, 10:22 AM
  #50  
Sy Reene
Advocatus Diaboli
 
Sy Reene's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Wherever I am
Posts: 8,613

Bikes: Merlin Cyrene, Nashbar steel CX

Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4717 Post(s)
Liked 1,526 Times in 997 Posts
Originally Posted by smashndash
https://www.bicyclerollingresistance...prix-5000-s-tr

Interesting. BRR measured the same-ish rolling resistance for a given pressure, but the tire has also gotten ~1.5mm smaller, which means you'd have to run it at a slightly higher pressure.
It could also mean you might just fit the next sized up tire and negate these differences. But indeed curious. In fact the new TR shows an inflated height measurement of only 22mm -- not sure if this is maybe the lowest profile '25mm' tire I've seen in his testing? I guess the size is part of the contributing reason for lower weight. Puncture resistance is down, but importance of this is lesser I suppose if you're running sealant and not a tube.
Sy Reene is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.