BluesDawg

Let's say I can only spend about $2150 for a new 2009 road bike. No way to spend more and other obligations mean that it will be quite some time before there is money available for significant upgrades beyond the initial purchase.. Let's say I want this to be a lightweight sporty bike that will primarily be used for fast rides in moderately hilly terrain. The rides will usually be 30 to 50 miles, with maybe a rare metric century thrown in. Let's say I insist on getting the bike from my LBS which only carries Specialized. The two bikes in the 2009 lineup that meet my qualifications are the Tarmac Elite C2 and the Allez Elite C2
Based on the prices of the similar 2008 models and adding $200 for anticipated price increases, I'm assuming the Tarmac will go for about $2150, using the entire budget, and the Allez will go for about $1400, leaving $750 for upgrades.

The Tarmac has a FACT 6R monocoque carbon frame while the Allez has a frame of E5 aluminum w/FACT carbon seatstays. The Tarmac has slightly better saddle, seatpost and maybe headset.
The rest of the specs are nearly identical. Same Shimano 105 brifters, F&R derailleurs and chain. Both have a Tiagra compact crank and 12-27 10 speed cassette. Both have house brand brakes. The wheels are identical - Specialized hubs, Mavic CXP22, 28-hole/32-hole rims, DT 14g spokes and brass nipples.

So what it comes down to is this. Is the carbon frame enough of an advantage over the good aluminum frame with carbon stays and fork to counter the ability to spend $750 on upgraded wheels and components? I should be able to get good wheels for $350 to $400. With the rest I could upgrade the brakes and crank or possibly get the SRAM Rival shifters and rear derailleur I would really prefer. Everything I upgrade could be passed on to upgrade my son's bike.

The answer seems obvious to me, but I wondered what the forum's opinion would be. So What is the better bike for the stated purpose? A pure stock Tarmac Elite or an upgraded Allez Elite?

Hermes

Considering your constraints, I would go for the Allez and upgrade. With the Al frame and CF fork and AL steerer the ride should be fine. You can tune up the ride a bit more, if necessary, with the right wheel selection. I like the feel of better components..

maddmaxx 

The only disadvantage of the Allez frame is the theoratical possibility of problems down the road with the aluminium/carbon junction. Your not a real big rider so that should be a very small possibility. The ride will be good, almost as good as the full carbon.

The Tiagra crank (4550?) is fine, just slightly portly and shifts just as well as anything else.

The 105 running gear works well so the difference between that and Rival is basically which style of shift do you like more.

The CXP22 rim is the budget version of the CXP33. It is brutally strong but without the welded seam and machined brake track. If built with double butted spokes, this is the low cost version of "Maxx's Madd wheels". Money spent here would be an improvement.

I'd vote Allez with better wheels, Rival, pedals and your going to have to ride that saddle to form an opinion.

gcottay

It's option #4 for me: Not a single clue

wobblyoldgeezer

I'd vote 'other', but I note that you want to buy from your local shop, and that's a good thing. My ol' favourite bike is a Specialized, I've ridden more miles on it than on any other make, and I have nothing but delight to report on that make.

But the 'other' vote - I'm absolutely delighted by my new Rocky Mountain ST50. Because - steel main triangle, I'm retro enough to want steel. Small craftsman company - I like businesses where the craftsmen are close to the management. It cost around your budget. And it's my favourite ever paint job (Discuss!) And it makes me ride further, and faster than any bike I've had before

Honestly I couldn't be happier with that one even if Santa had arranged to have it delivered by Julie Christie, gift wrapped

Glad to help

10 Wheels

So what would be wrong for you with an Aluminum Felt $800 on Sale?
Paris for President.

BengeBoy 

I voted for the Tarmac because I don't believe you'll never upgrade it.

roccobike

I'd go with the Tarmac. You can always upgrade wheels later, but to upgrade a frame usually means a new bike. I just went full carbon myself, much smoother ride compared to aluminum.

Digital Gee

Wow!!

Double Wow!!

But you need a yellow jersey and helmet!

Tom Bombadil

My Fuji is extremely similar to the Allez Elite, excepting for it being a flat-bar road bike. I did look over a couple of full carbon options, like the Trek 7.9 FX and Specialized Sirrus LTD. I went with the AL/CF w/105 because I perceived only minor improvements with the CF bikes, the price difference for me was $800 vs $2000, and as I don't push the performance envelope the small differences were inconsequential for me.

However for you the price difference is less and you could realize a real advantage from the CF's lighter frame and potentially more comfortable ride. I have to say potentially because it depends upon what that CF frame was designed for ... where on the comfort vs performance scale does it lie? You can make a CF frame very stiff if you are maximizing for performance.

I do echo what others have said about the frame. Yes, you can immediately upgrade the Allez' wheel set and perhaps have a better bike than the Tarmac for a while. But with the Tarmac, you have the long term option of upgrading it too, and in the end, that has more potential. So while you have limited this to an immediate to one-year kinda window, I think you should throw in a thought or two about a 5-year plan. After all, you are one who likes changing configs on your bikes.

stapfam

If you are used to aluminium and can find no faults with it- You might be disapointed with a more expensive C.F. Framed bike.

Both bikes have a good frame- But the upgrade of better wheels will be a good improvement over the stock wheels- Upgrade at Purchase?

But the final check is a test ride.

BluesDawg

For one thing, it's yaller.

BluesDawg

Interesting responses so far, as I knew there would be. Just to clear up a few things -

Most of you know I'm a steel bike lover and that all of my long rides are on Ribby, my '92 Bridgestone RB-1 with upgraded and customized components. That would not change if I bought one of the bikes being discussed here.

The budget constraints are very real. I'm not sure I'll even be able to do this with everything else competing for my money. Cancer treatment ain't cheap.
By the time I would have any chance of upgrading the Tarmac, I'll be looking for a suitable replacement for Ribby. The Tarmac would not fit that requirement no matter how I customized it. It is too race oriented for that.

This is to be a niche bike. A fun and fast bike to attack the hills and group rides, taking advantage of my lower body weight after the cancer is defeated. Comfort matters, but is not as high a priority as handling and speed. If comfort was a priority, I'd be looking at the Roubaix. I seriously doubt that the stock Tarmac will be any lighter or more comfortable than the Allez with upgraded wheels.

Being able to pass the upgraded parts down to my son's bike is a major plus for me. Eventually, the whole bike may get passed to him.

All of this may be a moot point when Salsa releases its two new road frame designs in the next few months. I have a hunch that one might be an all day premium steel bike. That could change my priorities in a quick hurry.

George

FWIW, I took the Roubaix aluminum bike with the carbon forks and stays out and the next day the all carbon bike and I noticed the difference right away. If I had the money I'd probably go with the Roubaix S works. I really like the looks of Hermes bike though.

RoMad

You know you love the feel of steel. Carbon would be a nice light good ride. I think if you went with the aluminum you would be backing up. You can always give your son the whole bike when you move up the next time.

speedlever

BD,

I dunno if this is heresy or not, but the PF bikes may be a value purchase for your specific need. Just got a brochure in the mail today with a number of bikes listed that *could* be of interest... or not.

Anyway, here's some examples from their website (not in the brochure):

A double:
https://www.performancebike.com/shop/...e.cfm?sku=5813

A triple:
https://www.performancebike.com/shop/...e.cfm?sku=5815

And another double:
https://www.performancebike.com/shop/....cfm?sku=23646

Didn't see any Fuji's listed on their 'site, but the brochure has a Fuji Team Road Bike for $1400.

FWIW.

cyclinfool

I own an '07 Tarmac Expert - Ultegra, FSA crank and DA rear RD.
I bought this bike in late Sept/early Oct - can't exactly remember.
The bike listed for $2700 and the stores were moving them at $1700. I got an even better deal than that.
I bet you could get a brand new '08 Tarmac Elite for $1600 based on what I see on the net, ask your LBS if he can get one from the wharehouse - they should be starting to clean out inventory. That would give you $400 for new wheels - you could probably sell the old ones for $100 to $200 if you don't ride them and then have enough for yet a few more upgrades.

Now as far as the ride - I really like the Tarmac as a sprinter. On a short ride of less than 40 miles I like it better than my steel bike, but on long rides the steel bike is the choice. I can't but my finger on why that is the case. Both have a nice ride but I think my steel bike has a little bit more spring in the front fork.

As far as the AL bike - my riding buddy bought a Trek 1000 last summer to upgrade an old Cannondale, he is a big guy, probably 6'4" and he loves it. I think it has 105 on it. In any event, you will probably be OK in either case, but if you want a sprinter - you will always wonder if you would be just a bit quicker on the climbs with the Tarmac.

Good Luck

Solomander

I would go for the best frame possible. Wheels are inexpensive enough so that you can upgrade them without it being too painful. I find it hard to tell the difference beyond mid range components (not that high end ones aren't nice). As stuff wears out or bums you out, you can upgrade.

Joel

BluesDawg

Thanks for the replies. The ones that followed the rules were very informative. I still think the Allez with $750 worth of upgrades would be one badass bike. More fun than a stock Tarmac.

But in reality, this was merely a thought exercise. My first year back will be a rekindling of my love affair with Ribby, the best bike in the world.

Tom Bombadil

Tease!

Nightshade

NO FAIR!! You owned a Bridgestone (!!!!) all the while and you ask about lesser bikes!!

Such a tease!

BluesDawg

I said right there in the title and in the OP that it was just an exercise.

bigjim1

$2500 dollar budget! First thing I would buy would be a big lock. Meanwhile had a nice ride in the rare sun yesterday on my $80 dollar chinese made MTB. Still took my lock though.

Jim.

BluesDawg

Budget was $2150. But yeah, unlike many here who seem to have no spending limits, that's a lot of money for a bicycle in my book. I have had a lot of great bikes and I've never spent close to that much for one. But I don't carry a lock except on rare occasion.

Trsnrtr

Works for me!