livedarklions

No. That wasn't the scenario people were objecting to. You don't get to tell us what to argue.

Steve B.

I call a person doing that a "bad samaritan". Doing the wrong thing they think is right. I have been waved on endlessly by cars who had stopped before me at a stop sign, then waved me on. I am usually stopped with a foot on pavement. Usually they dont realize they need to have their hand near the windshield to be seen, its usually near their face. Then they think they are being polite by letting you go first, in truth they are just confusing the situation. They just cant seem to understand they need to treat road cyclists as they would a car. .

livedarklions

"Inevitable" is way too strong of a word. That's just wrong legally.

BTW, "should not have to" is a completely different question than "should not".

FBinNY 

It should be obvious by now that the OP wants people to do things his way. In absence of laws or traffic code, he's making stuff up as he goes along.

veganbikes

If a discussion thread doesn't go my way because I choose not to understand the other posters in the thread should I start a new one:

Yes 1 Vote

No All of the rest of the votes

livedarklions

I don't know you from beans, but I am not gaslighting you when I tell you you're wrong and explain why. You don't even know what gaslighting is, just another example of your lack of comprehension.

The law is generally clear that regardless of signals, a driver must stop to avoid any likely risk of hitting someone. I would agree that shouldn't happen, but that's not real life. This is the old driver's ed scenario of the child's ball rolling into the street. You stop because there's a substantial chance that a small child will dart into the street. That doesn't mean that people should roll balls into the street to stop cars, and the fact that the law requires the driver to stop on a green to avoid a substantial risk of hitting someone doesn't imply that it's ok for the cyclist to roll the red.

Frankly, you appear to have less than average knowledge of the rules of the road and really poor debating skills.

veganbikes

Which flavor is better Chocolate or Krusty Brand Imitation Gruel...Argue that:

livedarklions

I think it's worse than that. He gets annoyed when people agree with him and then changes the terms of the argument so they have to disagree with him, then gets mad because they didn't follow him down the rabbit hole.

Literally no one is saying that a cyclist should just barrel through a red light, yet he keeps trying to make us defend that proposition by changing the scenario or the semantics of the driver's duties. Trying to force people to twist their own words so they are saying things they don't mean really is gaslighting of a sort, OP just happens to be incompetent at it.

FBinNY 

I don't think it's that complicated.

For reasons of his own, he has a problem with overly courteous drivers who yield to cyclists when it's not legally required.

Furthermore, he gets annoyed at those of us who enable and encourage this outrageous conduct by proceeding if offered the option.

This is a problem because it would validate and encourage courtesy and God only knows where that might lead.

livedarklions

I'm insane enough to follow this a little more closely than you. I think he actually gave up on the driver courtesy scenario and tried to gaslight into supporting run the red light at post 82 et seq.

livedarklions

OP is being completely dishonest here, having gotten a bunch of "it depends" answers in A&S, he now presents it as a simplistic yes/no question.

Boycott.

Just so you know, in the hypothetical in A&S, it was a crosswalk crossing of a bike path across the road, you could see all directions, and there was literally no other traffic. No question of any other screened vehicle and no chance of rear ending.
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CliffordK

I don't think I've seen that situation with a green light and a car stopping.

It might occasionally happen at a cross walk or a stop sign away from traffic signals. And, that is a very different situation.

Legally cars are required to stop for people in cross walks. Ever wonder why?

indyfabz

I HATE it when people start what are basically the same threads in different forums. And it’s against forum rules.

shelbyfv

^^^Yes, someone please report this so it can be moved to A&S, consolidated with his existing train wreck.

livedarklions

OP just pulled the same dishonest poll bit in GC he did with sidewalk riding, btw. This time he did it by eliminating the "it depends" answers from his yes/no poll question.
That's just sleazy.

livedarklions

In his other thread, he was describing a crosswalked crossover of a bike path with a traffic light. I've seen very few of these and I ride a lot of very long bike paths. This guy was arguing that it was alright to roll the red light if there were absolutely no cars there, but not if the single car at the intersection stopped when the driver had a green light and waved you through because that might train the driver that he "had to" stop for the crosswalk despite the green light. The distinction he was making between the two situations (no car vs. one car unobstructed view) made no sense. He didn't answer the question as to why a driver who was unaware of what the traffic signal meant would actually wave at all, but instead started whining about "gas lighting" and starting this thread.
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datlas 

Correct answer is "It depends on several details" so a simple binary poll is foolishness.

StanSeven

Yes, especially since the subject was started in A&S to begin with. Thread moved and merged.

rc5781

Oh, was I able to just add a poll to this thread. Didn't know.

indyfabz

I am sensing a theme.

livedarklions

If I see a crosswalk turn green, I'd doubt my senses.

rc5781

Actually you can't retroactively add a poll to an existing thread. Didn't see an option on other threads without polls.

I'm glad it's consolidated now, though. People on here keep giving me flack for answering the poll "No".

Can someone PLEASE tell me how to not get emails when someone quotes you, lol...

livedarklions

Which is why you put the "poll" in the other forum where people wouldn't see the actual argument you're distorting with the forced yes/no responses? Nice try.

livedarklions

Try trolling less.

shelbyfv

Why not troll a golf forum?